what about something like this?
http://www.dandcextreme.com/product_template.asp?pkID=126
http://www.dandcextreme.com/product_template.asp?pkID=126
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simple cage ideas
- Thread starter chaser9478
- Start date
GrimmJeeper
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Gardena, CA
the bends at the knee area for the lower a pillar bars bother me. for crawling? probably fine. go fast stuff? no thanks. bends are weak points, with no bracing there that will be the first place the cage deforms. if you are going to build a cage to go fast do it right and drop it behind the dash, any unbraced bar that drops to the floor should be as straight as possible, IMO.
remember this is the jeepspeed section guys, the cage design ideas for crawling have been beat to death in the mod tech and ad fab sections already many times. if you are looking for ideas to build a crawler cage search in those sections.
remember this is the jeepspeed section guys, the cage design ideas for crawling have been beat to death in the mod tech and ad fab sections already many times. if you are looking for ideas to build a crawler cage search in those sections.
- Location
- Bakersfield, CA
Rusty's used to sell a single roll bar, and it bolts to the front seat shoulder belt bolts in the B pillar. I would consider using one as a very simple improvement in safety. Or, just build a single hoop and tie it into those shoulder belt bolts. The guys are correct about needing a four point, but when you tie a single hoop into the existing structure, like at the shoulder belt bolts, it does have additional strength and would add some safety.......besides being simple.
HollisM16
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Colorado Springs, CO
The fact that there's no triangulation in Rock Hard's XJ design leaves a bit to be desired... I'm looking at cages right now and am considering theirs mainly because if something low-impact happened I could potentially part it out to another XJ, but I don't know how much actual structural integrity it would add to the rig for Jeepspeed-style riding... not to mention you could never tie rear through-the-floor shocks into it.
Here's another cage option (weld together) if you have fab skills:
http://shop.eoronline.com/product.sc?productId=9&categoryId=2
I don't know what their additional options are, but I'm curious.
Here's another cage option (weld together) if you have fab skills:
http://shop.eoronline.com/product.sc?productId=9&categoryId=2
I don't know what their additional options are, but I'm curious.
Last edited:
HollisM16
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Colorado Springs, CO
For those of us that never intend to compete, maybe this is an argument for exo-cages...?
chaser9478
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Onancock, VA
I like the D&D cage as a starting point. I would add alot to it though. I would put some cross braces and x's where I could. They have a kit like that on e-bay for around $300 motion offroad?? maybe. I think a weld in kit could be good if you added to it. I am an old armor guy so over kill is good. My jeep doesnt see over 60 on the road much less off, however it does need to be done right.......
I'm gonna put my honest opinion out there... ALL these pre-fabbed cages are SHIT, the fitment is HORRIBLE, I went through all this. Spend the extra dough and get the T&J pre-fabbed kit, it's a NICE cage, and fits insanely well. Here are some pics from it going in on mine:
Keep in mind they also have a racer cage for just the front passenger compartment.
Keep in mind they also have a racer cage for just the front passenger compartment.
- Location
- Torrance, CA
Jim, you're saying these flat bar portions from the RockHard 4x4 bolt-on cage would fail?
Terrible setup, just looking at it screams weak point.
If you want to retain that room that a round bar will cover pull you dash, cut holes, and go through it. It'll be a major job and require tons of thought but you'll end up with room.
Alternatively you can always use the URF method of keeping glove box access...
chaser9478
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Onancock, VA
That is a really nice cagr t&j makes good stuff. How much is their kit? I could add a place for my seats to that east enough. Thanks for the pics. BTW how much weight does that add? My XJ is a pig, 4900, I need to lose weght in some areas to make room for essentials.
chaser9478
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Onancock, VA
I gotta a huge warn rear bumper that I want to ditch for something like the protofab tube tire carrier. That will be about 150, the warn rig rattles like hell too. the CO 2 tank and tool box seats seatbelts and my recovery bag I want to make secure places for in my cage. Cage and frame stiffening is going to be my summer agenda. To bad I don't live near any of you guys.....
The D&C cage is a good foundation to build off of.
A member here on
survived a 5x end-over-end roll with a reinforced D&C cage.
DualPurposeXJ
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- menifee
QUOTE]
do the guys who run the T&J cage add a door bar or something to strengthen where the cage bends around the dash?
- Location
- Reno, Nevada
Karstic,
How has your cage held up to the flop (looking at your avatar)? Or have you rolled it in addition to that?
I ask because it was one of the cages I looked at and took some ideas for mine.
How has your cage held up to the flop (looking at your avatar)? Or have you rolled it in addition to that?
I ask because it was one of the cages I looked at and took some ideas for mine.
HollisM16
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Colorado Springs, CO
So what about removable exo cages that tie into unibody stiffeners, bumpers, and the like? I'm concerned about extra weight and unnecessary constant wind drag, so removable sounds nice. Also, doesn't a cage (especially one with a lot of triangulation above your head) make it EASIER to roll since the COG is now higher? These things aren't aluminum after all... just my thoughts. I wonder what percentage of folks with cages have rolled their rigs with them installed as opposed to folks without cages who have never rolled. For most XJ's, the worst stress point in a rollover seems to be the A pillar anyway- that thing crumples like it's made out of paper. Maybe we save weight with just a 4-point like the thread creator said. I'm no expert though, haven't had a cage yet... but I've also never rolled, although I wonder if I would have had my COG been higher due to having a cage... oy. Potential catch 22.
souske
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- The land of competition
No it gets easier to toll your rig with a cage, because the cage can give you a false sense of security. Never going to get any kind of meaningful numbers out of the cage/no cage thing. Those that have spent $$$ adding a cage, are probably pushing their rigs harder.
Waiting for everyone to tell me I am full of it:eyes:
YELLAHEEP
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Littleton, Colorado
Yeah, having a "minimal" cage discussion in the Jeep Speed forum seems inappropriate I'll agree, because most that would hang in this forum would certainly have experience with and concerns about high speed, multiple roll protection.
But it seems to me the original poster is looking for a cage design that will provide adequate safety/protection in low speed, lay-over or single roll incidents.
In short, I think he wants to avoid having the roof collapse on his melon as illustrated here:
I think everyone here can agree that ANYTHING constructed that provides good support of the "A" and "B" pilars in a flop or roll is going to be optimal. So, yeah, a 4-point cage should be the minimum for consideration. As you can see in the above pics, the "A" pilar failed miserably. If Dutch hadn't leaned out of the door opening when it flopped, he could have suffered head/neck/spine injury. As it was, he ended up kinda pinched in the door sill area with his shoulder pressed into the roof.
I think it's pretty silly to argue the flat plate cage design of the Rock Hard cage versus a DOM tube in the same location that has 2 bends put in it. I have that Rock Hard cage and that plate is nearly 1/2" thick. It's gonna take a substantial impact to cause it to bend.
The bigger concern in cage strength - in my experience and opinion - is how it's mounted in the XJ. Building a good, triangulated/gussetted cage and having it just bolted to a sheet metal floor is the real weak point. In a decent roll/flop, there's real potential that the cage won't bend, but it could be pushed through the floor as the XJ rolls onto it's lid. I've seen some cage "feet" - foot plates and a backing plate sandwiched together with bolts actually rip the floor metal it's bolted to after a roll.
But I digress.......
To the original poster - definitely invest in a 4-point cage at a minimum. Additional gusseting and/or triangulation is a bonus. Having the cage feet anchored to the "frame" of the XJ with say, some brackets to the rock rails or frame stiffeners would be ideal. :thumbup:
But it seems to me the original poster is looking for a cage design that will provide adequate safety/protection in low speed, lay-over or single roll incidents.
In short, I think he wants to avoid having the roof collapse on his melon as illustrated here:
I think everyone here can agree that ANYTHING constructed that provides good support of the "A" and "B" pilars in a flop or roll is going to be optimal. So, yeah, a 4-point cage should be the minimum for consideration. As you can see in the above pics, the "A" pilar failed miserably. If Dutch hadn't leaned out of the door opening when it flopped, he could have suffered head/neck/spine injury. As it was, he ended up kinda pinched in the door sill area with his shoulder pressed into the roof.
I think it's pretty silly to argue the flat plate cage design of the Rock Hard cage versus a DOM tube in the same location that has 2 bends put in it. I have that Rock Hard cage and that plate is nearly 1/2" thick. It's gonna take a substantial impact to cause it to bend.
The bigger concern in cage strength - in my experience and opinion - is how it's mounted in the XJ. Building a good, triangulated/gussetted cage and having it just bolted to a sheet metal floor is the real weak point. In a decent roll/flop, there's real potential that the cage won't bend, but it could be pushed through the floor as the XJ rolls onto it's lid. I've seen some cage "feet" - foot plates and a backing plate sandwiched together with bolts actually rip the floor metal it's bolted to after a roll.
But I digress.......
To the original poster - definitely invest in a 4-point cage at a minimum. Additional gusseting and/or triangulation is a bonus. Having the cage feet anchored to the "frame" of the XJ with say, some brackets to the rock rails or frame stiffeners would be ideal. :thumbup:
You solve that with shock valving. Remember, we're in the Jeepspeed forum, not the crawling forum. As is so, a Jeepspeed / Prerunner / Go Fast cage is going to differ substantially from a rock crawler cage. You learn to drive with the added weight.
Yeah, having a "minimal" cage discussion in the Jeep Speed forum seems inappropriate I'll agree, because most that would hang in this forum would certainly have experience with and concerns about high speed, multiple roll protection.
But it seems to me the original poster is looking for a cage design that will provide adequate safety/protection in low speed, lay-over or single roll incidents.
In short, I think he wants to avoid having the roof collapse on his melon as illustrated here:
I think everyone here can agree that ANYTHING constructed that provides good support of the "A" and "B" pilars in a flop or roll is going to be optimal. So, yeah, a 4-point cage should be the minimum for consideration. As you can see in the above pics, the "A" pilar failed miserably. If Dutch hadn't leaned out of the door opening when it flopped, he could have suffered head/neck/spine injury. As it was, he ended up kinda pinched in the door sill area with his shoulder pressed into the roof.
I think it's pretty silly to argue the flat plate cage design of the Rock Hard cage versus a DOM tube in the same location that has 2 bends put in it. I have that Rock Hard cage and that plate is nearly 1/2" thick. It's gonna take a substantial impact to cause it to bend.
The bigger concern in cage strength - in my experience and opinion - is how it's mounted in the XJ. Building a good, triangulated/gussetted cage and having it just bolted to a sheet metal floor is the real weak point. In a decent roll/flop, there's real potential that the cage won't bend, but it could be pushed through the floor as the XJ rolls onto it's lid. I've seen some cage "feet" - foot plates and a backing plate sandwiched together with bolts actually rip the floor metal it's bolted to after a roll.
But I digress.......
To the original poster - definitely invest in a 4-point cage at a minimum. Additional gusseting and/or triangulation is a bonus. Having the cage feet anchored to the "frame" of the XJ with say, some brackets to the rock rails or frame stiffeners would be ideal. :thumbup:
Then he's in the wrong section, this is the Jeepspeed section, not the rock crawling flop section.
As for your rock hard cage, I stand firm in my belief that the flat plate is a HORRIBLE idea, and WILL fold in any sort of speed related roll over. Try to pass that by tech in ANY sanctioning body and see how that works for ya. I'm not knocking you for owning the cage, I'm knocking rock hard for releasing such a poorly designed a-pillar. The two bends in the a-pillar bar as FAR stronger than a flat plate. What's going to happen when you barrel roll sideways with that flat plate? That cage is going to become a death trap, making it far worse than if you rolled without one, just more stuff to cut out to get to you.
HollisM16
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Colorado Springs, CO
So I guess the applicable question based on this thread title (asking Jim specifically), is what is the minimum non-racing sanctioned roll cage style you think would work for going fast? 4-point A/B pillar DOM connecting to brackets that are welded to the frame rails in some way? I'd like to know the answer to this too since I won't be racing and would like to save some weight if possible...
- Location
- Bakersfield, CA
I know we're in the fast forum, not the crawl forum, but fact is still fact. This discussion isn't about what makes a good cage, or the best cage, it's about how minimal can you go and still have a benefit.....at least that's how I interpret the OP's question. I know from a principal standpoint a flat plate isn't as strong as a tube, however, if you've seen the Rockhard cage in person it really is a pretty beefy setup and for nearly everyone is plenty strong enough to get the job done. For one thing, that flat plate is sandwiched between the door and the dash and can't move much if it did bend, and it is 1/2" thick and very wide.
As far as VERY minimal, I'd still take a single B pillar hoop tied into the shoulder belt bolts over nothing at all. In the pic that YELLAHEEP posted, the B pillar collapsed as well as the A pillar. Even a single B hoop would have minimized that collapse of the B pillars and could have prevented the A pillar from collapsing as much. Yes, a 4 point is better, but if someone has no ability to build one, a 2 point B pillar is still better than nothing at all....if it's tied into the existing structure.
And, as always, any internal cage needs to have enough headroom to actually make it safer, not less safe.
As far as VERY minimal, I'd still take a single B pillar hoop tied into the shoulder belt bolts over nothing at all. In the pic that YELLAHEEP posted, the B pillar collapsed as well as the A pillar. Even a single B hoop would have minimized that collapse of the B pillars and could have prevented the A pillar from collapsing as much. Yes, a 4 point is better, but if someone has no ability to build one, a 2 point B pillar is still better than nothing at all....if it's tied into the existing structure.
And, as always, any internal cage needs to have enough headroom to actually make it safer, not less safe.
- Location
- Bakersfield, CA
It's pretty simple. If you want a cage that you know will protect you in a high speed rollover (you said speed) then it needs to be all around you, which means A and B pillars. It also needs cross bracing in the B pillar, and if you really want to make it strong and safe there should be rearward down bars from the B pillar. The concepts of being totally safe at speed and minimal don't really belong in the same sentence. Safe means one thing, minimal (being better than nothing) means something else.
