Wonder why I dont trust cops???

[kubtastic]

You were not there
I reserve judgement
He clearly saw that the Officers were moving
they have bad days
Cop looses it.
If you are stupid enough to challenge an Officer, you deserve what you have coming
maybe I'm just a suckass
He should've been beat senseless by the crowd
I agree 120%

This thread is more controversial than the video. Apparently the video is simultaneoulsy inconclusive about the events, and conclusive on the actions of the police and the cyclist. The only thing I can tell is that a women in a neon-colored jacket gasped at the incident.

 

[Ray H]

This thread is more controversial than the video. Apparently the video is simultaneoulsy inconclusive about the events, and conclusive on the actions of the police and the cyclist. The only thing I can tell is that a women in a neon-colored jacket gasped at the incident.

I can tell that the cyclist in question is skinny as a rail.
Maybe the cop didnt even see him.

Its a shame that we have these discussions where we only have a small bit of the evidence, we never hear the rest of the story so theres never any conclusion. Remember the one where the cop Tazered the motorist because he wouldnt sign the ticket? How about the one where the cop jumped on the hood of a car and shot through the windshield? No one knows what happened to these. I would be interested in seeing the outcome. It sucks when you think about it.

 

[The Hard Struggler]

I've got to say that this cop should NOT be in L.E.

First, every NYC cop on foot working crowd control i've ever seen has a whistle to get someones attention. Even if this biker broke the law, and i'm sure he did somehow, the cop didn't even wave his hands, or shout "Hey you in the red hat" nothing, before body checking this biker onto the sidewalk.

Regardless of what this biker did, it should have been handled with less aggression. Now if after getting his attention and making your intentions known, this dude runs or otherwise defies the cop, well then by all means tackle, mace, taze,.. hell shoot him, whatever it takes.

 

[WB9YZU]

Its ok to have a position based on the evidence (video evidence) we have in hand. I reserve the right to change my mind if more evidence presents itself, but Im not going to fill in the blanks without fursther evidence. To me, based on what I see, the cop looks like a punk who shouldnt carry a badge.

But you have already drawn a conclusion. Your conclusion, based on the video, is that the Officer was acting outside the law and deserves to loose his job.

I fixed your second statement for you.
"Law abiding citizens are like anyone else doing their job. They have good days, and they have bad days. If you are stupid enough to challenge law abiding citizen, you deserve what you have coming."

My statement was perfectly fine. Dispite what the law says, it is ill advised to take the law into your own hands. To make a citizen arrest, you open yourself to civil lawsuit. Thus, in most cases where you yourself are not affected, only Officers should make arrests.

In my country, having a bad day is not an excuse to assult someone, especially if you have sworn to uphold the law.

In your mind, what is a cops job?
In mine, a cops only job is to protect the rights of people from incursions from other people. In the video, I didnt see anyones rights being violated (until.... well you know when)

The fact is that you don't have the evidence to support your chage of assault. There are damn few ways to stop a bicyclist on foot. One of them is to knock the cyclist over, very effective, and the other is to chase them, which is futile.

I chose my pro Officer position because, based on information not included in the video, this group is a repeat offender of the law. Just watching the video tells you that it is not the intent of the cyclists to be traffic, but to obstruct it.

An Officers job is to enforce the law. He may pick and choose when, but that is his job.
Traffic violations almost never interfere with someone elses rights, but they are the law, and are enforced. Part of being human is to have good and bad days, to expect that to not affect an Officers judgement at times is to expect the impossible. It is well known that Officers in New York tend to be a bit more agressive than say those in Madison, but it does not excuse the Citizen who makes the mistake of messing with one.

The shame of this is that an experienced Officer may loose is livelyhood and an cyclist who shouldn't have been doing what he was doing in the first place will probably get money he isn't entitled to because he failed to yeild to an Officer and the Officer took action.

 

[crazyjim]

Oh cause.. you know. ALL cops must be like this guy right?


F*ck you dude. Seriously.

 

[8Mud]

Coming off of a bike like that can break bones, hopefully not his skull. Had a buddy who died jumping curbs with a skateboard.
I still ask myself if it was necessary? I guess due process is a cranky Cop, the punishment is whatever the Cop decides at the moment.
It's not governments function to instill fear in the population.
There is a point where they stop looking like Cops and more like gangsters in uniform, extortionists and not law enforcement.

 

[Matthew Currie]

Like I said, we don't know what happened or why. Two seconds of video doesn't tell us much.

If we're going to try to guess, I'd have to guess that cars were stopped because light was red. All the bikers ran the light 'cause they're such badasses.

The last one got stopped, because the last one always gets stopped. If eight cars blow down the highway at 80 in a 55, and they pass a speedtrap, who's getting it? The last guy.

And maybe I'm just a suckass, but if a cop walked out in front me on my bike(?), I'm pretty sure I'd stop, and not just try to swerve around him.

I'm not saying the cop was right, it looks like he got pissed and lost his temper. That's not acceptable.

I'm just saying that I don't believe the kid was just riding his bike down the street and got nailed. I think he and his buddies were punks, ran the light, and essentialy dared the cops to do something about it.

Well, the cop did.

Robert

Certainly the Critical Mass rides are controversial, illegal, and provocative. Nevertheless, there is nothing in the video to suggest that the cop interacted with that particular cyclist in any way, verbally or by gesture, before he knocked him down.

I think you would have a very difficult time making a case that running a stop light is grounds for a violent and potentially lethal physical attack. It is, after all, possible to kill a person by knocking him off a bicycle, if his head hits right, and if the cop did not know that, he's in the wrong job. Even if you conclude that the cop was provoked in some way we can't see, his action was inappropriate.

This video would certainly be evidence for me that Critcal Mass is a stupid idea, inviting misunderstanding, bad blood and abuse, but that by itself does not make the abuse something else.

 

[SeansBlueXJ]

Ok, lets assume cyclist is an a$$ hat, and he did run a red, weave etc. So it still does not justify the officer to body check him off the bike like that. As 8Mud says, that can break some serious bones. Im sure there were more then just these 2 officers there, if they really wanted to get the guy radio ahead and nab him. There is a line between doing your job, and being excessive. This L.E.O. was way out of line, and obviously the NYPD saw that because of his current desk duty and his being "annonymous".

 

[FordGuy]

I would really like to know the whole story. I listen to the Cops and most of the time they are pretty cool, If he smarted off in any way, I personally don't have any problem with the cop knocking him off his bike. I can imagine the antagonizing the might have been going on.

 

[crazyjim]

Ok, lets assume cyclist is an a$$ hat, and he did run a red, weave etc. So it still does not justify the officer to body check him off the bike like that. As 8Mud says, that can break some serious bones. Im sure there were more then just these 2 officers there, if they really wanted to get the guy radio ahead and nab him. There is a line between doing your job, and being excessive. This L.E.O. was way out of line, and obviously the NYPD saw that because of his current desk duty and his being "annonymous".

Not that I'm justifying what this cop did, while I'm pro law enforcement I DO BELIEVE he may have stepped out of line. But let's put my OPINION aside for a second.

Let's take your logic, of him not being the only officer, and called ahead for another officer. Ever think maybe he WAS the next officer in line? Hmmm, maybe the cyclist was told to stop, refused to do so, and evaded a law enforcement officer, in which case, physical force IS permitted and justified, as he obviously tried to dodge him, perhaps for a second time.

Weird, that entire argument just got shot to shit didn't it?


What I'm trying to say here is this, maybe if certain people, like the OP, weren't fucking dirtbags, and didn't try to act like a superhero for the anti cop crowd, they'd take these sort of scenarios into account.

The simple truth is this, if you dislike cops, in general, as a whole. You sir, are in fact, a dirt bag. You break the law, you have friends that break the law, you hate the "man for keeping you down." Get over it, and learn how to live a responsible life, without trying to act like someone is trying to ruin your fun.

 

[FordGuy]

I would agree, I am 44 years old and when I think about each time I was in trouble with the cops, it was my fault and the only time it I was ever really hassled is when either my mouth or actions deserved it. I think you will be respected if you respect.

 

[Darky]

To me it looked like the cop was approaching the guy, the guy didn't stop. You can't hear anything except the crowd...The cop may have said something he may not have, but we can't hear. If I see a pedestrian crossing in front of me while on my bike, I stop and go around with a bit more room, the generally accepted method is to go behind the person, that way they aren't continuing to walk further in front of you. If I see a cop approaching, I stop and see what he wants. I always hesitate to jump on the "evil cop" bandwagon in these types of situations, its kinda hard to tell for sure that the cop just randomly decided to knock this guy down or that the guy did something to provoke the cop. Either way its obvious he knocked the biker down, not the biker riding into him

 

[crazyjim]

I would agree, I am 44 years old and when I think about each time I was in trouble with the cops, it was my fault and the only time it I was ever really hassled is when either my mouth or actions deserved it. I think you will be respected if you respect.

EXACTLY! Hell, when I was 19, my car got IMPOUNDED AND SOLD for street racing. You wouldn't believe how pissed off I was, and how much I "hated" cops. Why couldn't they go find a real criminal to pick on? WTF was wrong with them?

Well, in the short, but essential 5 years I've lived since then, I've done a lot of growing up, and see a LOT from the other side. I respect the hell out of law enforcement officers and what they do on a daily basis. You would not BELIEVE what they go through.

 

[SeansBlueXJ]

Not that I'm justifying what this cop did, while I'm pro law enforcement I DO BELIEVE he may have stepped out of line. But let's put my OPINION aside for a second.

Let's take your logic, of him not being the only officer, and called ahead for another officer. Ever think maybe he WAS the next officer in line? Hmmm, maybe the cyclist was told to stop, refused to do so, and evaded a law enforcement officer, in which case, physical force IS permitted and justified, as he obviously tried to dodge him, perhaps for a second time.

Weird, that entire argument just got shot to shit didn't it?


What I'm trying to say here is this, maybe if certain people, like the OP, weren't fucking dirtbags, and didn't try to act like a superhero for the anti cop crowd, they'd take these sort of scenarios into account.

The simple truth is this, if you dislike cops, in general, as a whole. You sir, are in fact, a dirt bag. You break the law, you have friends that break the law, you hate the "man for keeping you down." Get over it, and learn how to live a responsible life, without trying to act like someone is trying to ruin your fun.

Ok, lets assume he was indeed the 2nd officer ahead, wouldnt it benfit him and the NYPD to say that this cyclist avoided officers earlier as was then evading a lawful stop? That would make all this headache go away real fast if they could play up the cyclist as running from officers etc.

I don't dislike cops in general, I worked mall security a while back and worked daily with officers. Some were awesome at their jobs did well and were out to serve. Others were on a power trip, thought they were untouchable and better then the average citzen. But on the whole i have respect for thoes in LE.

Now as others said before, if more evidence came out I might change my mind, but baised on what i saw here, this INDVIDUAL law officer was out of line, out of place and shouldnt be on the streets.

Also this is a good case for more bicycle mounted officers, I always though that's the best thing in any town/city situation and needs to be implemented more. Plus it's enviromently friendly and might cut down on many of the overweight officers we have out there.

 

[Darky]

Not that I'm justifying what this cop did, while I'm pro law enforcement I DO BELIEVE he may have stepped out of line. But let's put my OPINION aside for a second.

Let's take your logic, of him not being the only officer, and called ahead for another officer. Ever think maybe he WAS the next officer in line? Hmmm, maybe the cyclist was told to stop, refused to do so, and evaded a law enforcement officer, in which case, physical force IS permitted and justified, as he obviously tried to dodge him, perhaps for a second time.

Weird, that entire argument just got shot to shit didn't it?


What I'm trying to say here is this, maybe if certain people, like the OP, weren't fucking dirtbags, and didn't try to act like a superhero for the anti cop crowd, they'd take these sort of scenarios into account.

The simple truth is this, if you dislike cops, in general, as a whole. You sir, are in fact, a dirt bag. You break the law, you have friends that break the law, you hate the "man for keeping you down." Get over it, and learn how to live a responsible life, without trying to act like someone is trying to ruin your fun.

Wow Jim, for a crazy guy, you're pretty smart! I was thinking ok so if he calls ahead to the next cop what's he to do? Walk towards him and tell him to stop and then what? Radio the next guy and just hope this biker listens? No, you radio ahead and the next guy will likely knock him off the bike. Eiher way, if it looks at all like a cop is trying to get your attention in some way, you stop and see what's going on.
Saw a dirt biker running from the police down my in laws street. It dead ends at a mountain with a trail leading to the desert. If I had figured out what was happening sooner, I might've decided to go somewhere in my Jeep, slow the biker down before he got there. In my opinion you run from or evade the police, you're automatically guilty. Maybe not of whatever you're accused of but you are guilty of evading arrest, risking other's lives and safety and wasting the cop's time. If these guys all ran a red on their bikes, getting tackled by a cop should be the least of their worries, I'd be more concerned with getting tackled by a 12" lifted Super Duty on 44s...

 

[RichP]

Coming off of a bike like that can break bones, hopefully not his skull. Had a buddy who died jumping curbs with a skateboard.
I still ask myself if it was necessary? I guess due process is a cranky Cop, the punishment is whatever the Cop decides at the moment.
It's not governments function to instill fear in the population.
There is a point where they stop looking like Cops and more like gangsters in uniform, extortionists and not law enforcement.

Thats NYC's history, the reason the sullivan law was passed was to make it easier and less hazardous for the police to collect protection and extortion money for the mayors political machine. Had nothing to do with reducing crime, it had to do with removing the business and citizens ability to say NO and back it up.

 

[FordGuy]

All of this is still just speculation since we just don't know what really took place. But as crazy as this sounds I believe that the law is way to easy on people who have no regard for law or law enforcement. You can get off way to easy in this country, ruin people or peoples family's, property, and walk away with little done to you. Look at the simple littering laws, go camping leave your trash, so what, the most a Ranger will do is hassle you. Go to Costa Rica and litter, $1000.00 min fine, mouth off, you are in jail, period! Guess what, no litter! Sometimes I think the worse invention was the Video Camera.

 

[SeansBlueXJ]

mouth off, you are in jail, period!

Sounds like a police state to me. Fine have a heafty fine for litter, but I can say what ever I want I am still getting the ticket.

 

[crazyjim]

Wow Jim, for a crazy guy, you're pretty smart! I was thinking ok so if he calls ahead to the next cop what's he to do? Walk towards him and tell him to stop and then what? Radio the next guy and just hope this biker listens? No, you radio ahead and the next guy will likely knock him off the bike. Eiher way, if it looks at all like a cop is trying to get your attention in some way, you stop and see what's going on.
Saw a dirt biker running from the police down my in laws street. It dead ends at a mountain with a trail leading to the desert. If I had figured out what was happening sooner, I might've decided to go somewhere in my Jeep, slow the biker down before he got there. In my opinion you run from or evade the police, you're automatically guilty. Maybe not of whatever you're accused of but you are guilty of evading arrest, risking other's lives and safety and wasting the cop's time. If these guys all ran a red on their bikes, getting tackled by a cop should be the least of their worries, I'd be more concerned with getting tackled by a 12" lifted Super Duty on 44s...

Thanks, I try


I'm going to shed some light on something for a few of you... this is a pretty tough thing for me to talk about, and to post, but you need to hear it.

This article, is about one my best friends. He was probably the coolest cat that's ever been in my life. Mike Willis was one of the BEST friends a person could ask for. Energetic, spunky, this kid was just off the wall, and you couldn't dislike him. Just over a year ago, Mike was taken from us, from a police officer...

Mike had a habit of riding his Banshee on the streets, we all told him he was an idiot for doing it, and he was going to get caught. He challenged us and the fact that the police could even CATCH him if he ran. We tried and tried to tell him, but at the time had no idea it would be a life or death situation.

My best friend was PUNTED 100 yards past the intersection he was hit. I got a phone call at 1:00 am that my friend had just died, and was laying in the middle of the road. I was in shock, and instantly turned white as a ghost, my other friends knew something was up when I broke down into tears. I couldn't believe what was happening, and then I heard it was a cop that hit him to top it all off. I got from South Orange County to my city in about 30 minutes, about a 60+ mile drive, with my buddy at the wheel of his Camaro.

http://www.pe.com/localnews/inland/stories/PE_News_Local_H_crash23.3f1df28.html

That's the article, you need to read it to understand the impact it had on me.

Here's the picture I took of the RSO K9 SUV.

My friend mike:

Guess what... I knew the cop. Wow was that hard. I didn't know what to feel. A Deputy I knew of the Riverside County Sheriff's department killed one of my best friends.

A lot of my friends who knew mike, have a deep deep hatred for law enforcement now... simply because of one thing, one thing that could have quite possibly been a mistake.

Now, want to know what really happened?

Mike was a full town over on his bike, probably 10 miles away from home. Went to a buddy's house, and decided to have a few drinks, and smoke a little bud. Whatever, that was his deal. Rob, and my OTHER friend who was there, let him leave... on a bike, on the street, high and buzzed. (Wow, wonder why they hate the cops? Kinda easy to pass off a little bit of that guilt now isn't it. Do any of you possibly do that?) A Beaumont police officer tried to stop Mike, who was riding illegally on the street. Mike decided to make a run for the dirt, and get home. Mind you, this was the first time Mike had ever run from the cops, while I had done so NUMEROUS times in my car.

Beaumont PD was the ONLY agency involved. RSO was not. I still don't know 100% what happened, but I do know what's been told to me, by an upstanding Deputy who I respect. The Deputy was on his way back to Hemet station, heard Beaumont on the scanner, and happened to be going the same way as the pursuit, cross ways. The Deputy was traveling down the 79, and the pursuit was to be crossing the 79 at 1st street. The Deputy accelerated, to try and assist another agency with a road block at 1st street. Bam, Mike didn't come down 1st. He came down California, one street sooner, through a red, in a blind intersection. He met the front end of a Tahoe that was doing 80+.

I know that was the hardest thing that has ever happened to that deputy, and I respect him for continuing his career in law enforcement, and hope some day he can save my ass. Nobody asked him how he felt, or what was going through his mind, how depressed or heart broken he may be for taking the life of a 20 year old who realistically did nothing majorly wrong in his life. But at the time, who knows why he was running? Could it have been that he had shot someone? Could it have been that he had raped your daughter? Could it have been that he stole the bike? An officer doesn't always know these things, and has to think on his feet just like anybody else, and then some. Unfortunately a wrong decision for an officer can sometimes carry a heavier penatly than if you bought the wrong cartridge for your inkjet.

Let's give them a little slack huh guys?

 

[souske]

F-in homos on bicycles, stay in the damn bike lane!!!!!