Where to find Shotgun parts and acessories

[8Mud]

if you can bayonet someone and your justified... stop trying to be cool and shoot him. This thread sucks wicked hard and 8mud, you are the reason.


btw odds are if your reading this, you not badass enough to bayonet someone. Deal with it, the sooner you do the sooner we can move on to real threads.

Take care,
Josh

Typical, someone with a third my age and likely less than half my experience has "listen to me" tattooed on their rectum.
The trend is towards limited response, even in the military. The times they are a changen. I have an opinion, the gist of it is, is to have options.
You hear often about somebody who shot a relative in the middle of the night. I bet they wish they could have gotten the bullet back.
Likely scenarios, you are clearing your own house in the middle of the night with a shotgun. Do you go through the doorway at low ready, high ready or with the barrel first? Why would bayonet first or high ready be a bad option? The low ready or even barrel first may not be the best choice.
Something about a bayonet (or even a knife) that increases the pucker factor, often even more so than a gun.
Badass, anybody who thinks they are, I invite to go poking around in a thicket at 3 AM, with possibly 20 wild pigs in there. About half weighing in above 250 and with a mouth full of teeth than would put most dogs to shame. Most times they take off running, if they don't, it pays to have options. The same things that work for pigs, often work for people.
Your talking seconds here, I may not have time to strap on all my Rambo gear or even be awake enough to find it all.

 

[ECKSJAY]

Likely scenarios, you are clearing your own house in the middle of the night with a shotgun. Do you go through the doorway at low ready, high ready or with the barrel first? Why would bayonet first or high ready be a bad option? The low ready or even barrel first may not be the best choice.

Then your 'experience' is outdated, because modern tactics teach us how to clear rooms and traverse doorways. But no, that's fine, use what you have available to you. If your ears and your mind were open, you might learn a thing or two from the younger door kickers.

Something about a bayonet (or even a knife) that increases the pucker factor, often even more so than a gun.

Pucker factor of whom, the bad guy? I suppose you prefer a .45 to a 9mm because the hole in the barrel is bigger? Are you one of those guys believing that racking the shotgun is going to scare away a baddie because everyone naturally knows what that sound means? Have you ever encountered tweekers who don't give a flying fawk that you're there or whether you're carrying a dead cat or an RPG? I'm thinking not. Hard to believe that with all your experience you'd be spouting off some Hollywood mumbo jumbo like the above quote.

Badass, anybody who thinks they are, I invite to go poking around in a thicket at 3 AM, with possibly 20 wild pigs in there. About half weighing in above 250 and with a mouth full of teeth than would put most dogs to shame. Most times they take off running, if they don't, it pays to have options. The same things that work for pigs, often work for people.
Your talking seconds here, I may not have time to strap on all my Rambo gear or even be awake enough to find it all.

Did your translator software break?

 

[8Mud]

It's funny - I remember a bayo instructor saying "If the bastard gets stuck on your blade, fire a round to get him unstuck."

If I've got a round, why am I sticking him with the bayonet?

With a little practise, you can do "tight elbow" with a standard stock.

Also, it's much easier to do "off the hip" in a hurry with a standard stock than it is with a pistol grip (just sayin'...)

You may want to switch to the bayonet, before you run out of bullets. Typically with a shotgun, I have around thirty rounds available, sometimes a lot less.
I found an east block ammo belt, four pouches that hold five shot shells each. They have a secure quick latch that can be thumb opened, I mount them upside down.
One reason I'm not a big fan of the saw blade or serrated section on many bayonets. I watched a buddy of mine struggle to get a bayonet out, it took him awhile and he was no small package.

 

[8Mud]

Then your 'experience' is outdated, because modern tactics teach us how to clear rooms and traverse doorways. But no, that's fine, use what you have available to you. If your ears and your mind were open, you might learn a thing or two from the younger door kickers.

Pucker factor of whom, the bad guy? I suppose you prefer a .45 to a 9mm because the hole in the barrel is bigger? Are you one of those guys believing that racking the shotgun is going to scare away a baddie because everyone naturally knows what that sound means? Have you ever encountered tweekers who don't give a flying fawk that you're there or whether you're carrying a dead cat or an RPG? I'm thinking not. Hard to believe that with all your experience you'd be spouting off some Hollywood mumbo jumbo like the above quote.

Did your translator software break?

I guess every generation thinks they have all the answers. And your right, I'll likely stick with what I know, it's served me well, this long. Uncle Jack taught me, same guy that taught the FBI. I was using his techniques way before most people ever heard of them.
I'd thank you not to put words in my mouth. Though to tell you the truth, I'd rather intimidate somebody into retreat than shoot them. Dealing with the aftermath can be a real pain.
The situation dictates whether the warning shot is the first shot or the last shot. If I had my rathers, I'd rather not shoot at all.

 

[ECKSJAY]

I'd thank you not to put words in my mouth.

Sorry for hogging the spotlight, Pops.

 

[5-90]

You may want to switch to the bayonet, before you run out of bullets. Typically with a shotgun, I have around thirty rounds available, sometimes a lot less.
I found an east block ammo belt, four pouches that hold five shot shells each. They have a secure quick latch that can be thumb opened, I mount them upside down.
One reason I'm not a big fan of the saw blade or serrated section on many bayonets. I watched a buddy of mine struggle to get a bayonet out, it took him awhile and he was no small package.

Yah - I know there are situations where a bayo can be preferred (haven't run into any. Typically, when I need a knife, it's either because I'm H2H here in CA - where they won't let me carry a sidearm - or because I want to do the job quietly...) but I just found that line amusing.

In the same sense that an X-ray tech will tell you that X-ray imaging is "perfectly safe" - right before they scuttle off behind a foot-thick lead shield. Yes, I know exactly why they go running off there - most of them take more images in a day than I've had taken of me in my life (probably.) I just can't help but chuckle whenever I see or hear it...

And Mud - I understand what you're doing; you want to stick with the tools that you know work. No harm there - the best thing you can have in a pinch is confidence in yourself and your gear. However, learning to fight is not a "static art" - I'm always picking up something-or-other to expand my own toolkit and increase the odds of my walking away ("The only fair fight is the one I win. By whatever means necessary.") Like ECKS said - the older door-kickers can learn from the younger ones, just as the younger door-kickers can learn from the older ones. Education goes both ways - as it properly should.

 

[stewie]

'but you have a shotty- why would you need a bayo?'- yah, my house isnt exactly tactially designed. i have an occupied bedroom that is downrange my main avenue of attack. it sits attop a "T" like intersection of two hallways and i approach from the bottom of the vertical line. 12 ga 00 buck pellets can easily penetrate that wall and jepardise the safety of that bedrooms occupant which is the reason i practice home defence at all. so yah, sometimes the blade would be better than the buckshot.

 

[5-90]

'but you have a shotty- why would you need a bayo?'- yah, my house isnt exactly tactially designed. i have an occupied bedroom that is downrange my main avenue of attack. it sits attop a "T" like intersection of two hallways and i approach from the bottom of the vertical line. 12 ga 00 buck pellets can easily penetrate that wall and jepardise the safety of that bedrooms occupant which is the reason i practice home defence at all. so yah, sometimes the blade would be better than the buckshot.

You may want to change your home defense load - #4 buck, having smaller pellets, is much less likely to overpenetrate and endanger people on the other side of the wall. Use a full choke, and you're still probably going to hit with the whole payload anyhow - so you're not really losing anything thereby.

Just a thought. Also, work on reversing rather suddenly, and "poke-checking" with the shotty - house-clearing has very limited space (usually,) and a variation on the "one-inch power punch" can prove very useful. You'll transfer more energy using the butt end than the barrel end, and that gives you one more "less lethal" option.

You might also want to look into various "less lethal" ammo options - some are available to the public. Load the first couple of rounds as beanbags or stun balls, and you've got another "less lethal" option. One or two will serve - if a pair of stunball rounds won't take the fight out of a bad guy, you're going to have to kill him anyhow.

 

[ECKSJAY]

You may want to change your home defense load - #4 buck, having smaller pellets, is much less likely to overpenetrate and endanger people on the other side of the wall. Use a full choke, and you're still probably going to hit with the whole payload anyhow - so you're not really losing anything thereby.

x2

As for the less lethal, might as well warm up the baseball bat and the hockey stick. Less lethal doesn't shut down bodies when they don't give a fawk and can't feel pain. Food for thought. If we're shooting something, we're not doing ourselves any favors to 'try and see' whether something is going to stun it.

 

[5-90]

x2

As for the less lethal, might as well warm up the baseball bat and the hockey stick. Less lethal doesn't shut down bodies when they don't give a fawk and can't feel pain. Food for thought. If we're shooting something, we're not doing ourselves any favors to 'try and see' whether something is going to stun it.

Makes sense. But, defending a "less lethal rounds first" shooting is going to be easier than escalating right to lethal force - or an improvised weapons charge (baseball bat, hockey stick, whatever.) That's why I said to only load one or two rounds max as beanbags or stunballs - that gets the "slap" out of the way quickly while you have time to decide whether or not someone needs to die.

Stingballs don't work against someone hopped up on dust or meth, but you can say you tried if/when you go to court.

My preferred load would be two rounds of beanbag, two rounds of #4 buck, two rounds of #00 buck, balance slugs (in a full-length mag tube.) That gives me the opportunity to progress, while giving myself time to wake up properly while I do so (even when you wake up on an andrenaline rush, you're still unco-ordinated and groggy for the first couple of minutes. Your "midnight load" should reflect this little fact.)

If you don't want to use a "less lethal" round, then load thusly: 2x#6 bird; 2x#4 buck; 2x#00 buck; balance slugs. NB: Sabot slugs usually have no trouble passing through a full choke, however using a rifled choke with shotloads is ill-advised (instead of maintaing integrity, your pattern looks like a doughnut instead. Big hole in the middle - can cause all sorts of trouble...)

 

[fscrig75]

Bayonets are nice for photographs.:looser:


As for less lethal I just don't see the point. If you find yourself in a situation where the trigger needs to be pulled I'd rather only do it once than have to worry about doing it twice.

 

[ECKSJAY]

Makes sense. But, defending a "less lethal rounds first" shooting is going to be easier than escalating right to lethal force - or an improvised weapons charge (baseball bat, hockey stick, whatever.) That's why I said to only load one or two rounds max as beanbags or stunballs - that gets the "slap" out of the way quickly while you have time to decide whether or not someone needs to die.

Stingballs don't work against someone hopped up on dust or meth, but you can say you tried if/when you go to court.

Jon, that thinking is SPOBI, sorry. I'm going to disagree and say that it has been 'tried' in court and all it does is screw someone in a civil liability. I realize you have good intentions, but it's simply untrue and ignorant. Having compassion for human beings is fine, but when they show blatant disregard for YOUR safety and the safety of those under your roof, you step up the game or you simply don't play. I'm not talking about blood lust and the desire to end the life of a human being, I'm talking about taking absolutely MINIMAL chances when it comes to neutralizing the threat. Prior cases prove it's a hell of a lot easier to defend yourself in civil court when it's much more clear that someone was endangering your life instead of, "Well, gee...I hit him with the rubber pellets because I didn't care for him being in my home and figured he'd learn from his mistake." I'm sorry, but as adults we make decisions and it's up to us to understand the consequences.

My preferred load would be two rounds of beanbag, two rounds of #4 buck, two rounds of #00 buck, balance slugs (in a full-length mag tube.) That gives me the opportunity to progress, while giving myself time to wake up properly while I do so (even when you wake up on an andrenaline rush, you're still unco-ordinated and groggy for the first couple of minutes. Your "midnight load" should reflect this little fact.)

If you don't want to use a "less lethal" round, then load thusly: 2x#6 bird; 2x#4 buck; 2x#00 buck; balance slugs.

Besides the civil standpoint, I would think you (of all people) would understand the tactical disadvantage of pumping two rounds of 'less lethal' and having the weapon malfunction. Then what? Fix bayonet and stab the SOB? These are peoples' lives you're giving advice on. I'm frankly disappointed that someone like yourself would even begin to solicit incomplete and uninformed advice like the above. Gunfights are only scripted in Hollywood. Follow the above advice make sure to post the script at every entry point of your abode, and hope the bad guys coming (to do unspeakable things to your family while you struggle for breath) are members of the SAG.

 

[5-90]

Jon, that thinking is SPOBI, sorry. I'm going to disagree and say that it has been 'tried' in court and all it does is screw someone in a civil liability. I realize you have good intentions, but it's simply untrue and ignorant. Having compassion for human beings is fine, but when they show blatant disregard for YOUR safety and the safety of those under your roof, you step up the game or you simply don't play. I'm not talking about blood lust and the desire to end the life of a human being, I'm talking about taking absolutely MINIMAL chances when it comes to neutralizing the threat. Prior cases prove it's a hell of a lot easier to defend yourself in civil court when it's much more clear that someone was endangering your life instead of, "Well, gee...I hit him with the rubber pellets because I didn't care for him being in my home and figured he'd learn from his mistake." I'm sorry, but as adults we make decisions and it's up to us to understand the consequences.



Besides the civil standpoint, I would think you (of all people) would understand the tactical disadvantage of pumping two rounds of 'less lethal' and having the weapon malfunction. Then what? Fix bayonet and stab the SOB? These are peoples' lives you're giving advice on. I'm frankly disappointed that someone like yourself would even begin to solicit incomplete and uninformed advice like the above. Gunfights are only scripted in Hollywood. Follow the above advice make sure to post the script at every entry point of your abode, and hope the bad guys coming (to do unspeakable things to your family while you struggle for breath) are members of the SAG.

Does that mean the courts are coming around? Gawd, I hope so!

I don't see a whole lot of reason why you should have to expend an awful lot of trouble and money to defend yourself after shooting some jackass that broke into your home, and the "duty to retreat" that Liberal states are foisting upon people is downright stupid.

Since I'm stuck here in CA, you can see how it's altered my thinking. Gotta take extra steps before you just whack the bastid - and you're correct, you should not have to do it.

Ideally, I'd say 2x#4 buck, 2x#00 buck, then balance slugs - and eliminate the "less lethal" idea altogether. I'm just thinking of the whole litigation thing - and that most people don't generally have a "less lethal" force option available to them.

Not that you should need one, but the trend in lawsuits over the last dozen years or so shows that you should probably have one avaialble.

Curious question - if you use the butt end of your shotgun to knock someone out, is that still Assault with a Deadly Weapon or Assault with Intent? I've always wondered that, and it is an honest question.

 

[ECKSJAY]

Curious question - if you use the butt end of your shotgun to knock someone out, is that still Assault with a Deadly Weapon or Assault with Intent? I've always wondered that, and it is an honest question.

You're thinking too hard and naming criminal charges. While you're clear of any criminal wrongdoing and the cops shrug their shoulders and haul BG off to the pokey, BG is thinking about hiring that attorney. That attorney looks at the big lump on his client's head and has him see a doctor...who diagnoses the migraines the client is having didn't start until you butted him with the shotty. Now because of those migraines, client can't work to support his 25 illegitimate unborn children who are all going to grow up and become doctors. You follow where I'm going with this? Yeah, there are judges who go for this shit.

I also don't see the courts 'coming around', I see the prosecutors getting called out on their trumped up charges in hopes of getting 'something' that can put someone away. It's like a good defensive shoot situation turning into pre-meditated murder...when the defense pleas guilty to manslaughter or negligent homicide. The goddamned charges shouldn't be there in the first place, but the prosecutor now gets to pad their 'win' pile.

It's up to us to know when and how the trigger can be pulled. Having an attorney on speed dial and retainer who is FAMILIAR WITH SELF DEFENSE CASES. Most 'defense attorneys' will only ever tackle one of these cases in their entire careers. Don't pay your fawking attorney to 'learn' on your dime. Hire someone who knows how to defend against it. THIS is why I take this stuff seriously. This is what happens after you pull the trigger. Any toughguy can say what they would do, where they'd keep the gun next to the bed, how many times they'd shoot, whether they'd fix a bayonet because they didn't think it was necessary to shoot...but damn near zero of them realize what happens in the aftermath. If we don't seek out the knowledge, we fail ourselves and those who depend on us.

 

[JoshDes]

i dont like less than lethal rounds at all, being from MA originally a non lethal shot on an intruder means 5 to 10 hard time for the home owner. Its funny how someone can be tried in court for defending their home and family ha? Annnnnywayyssss, if you want a bayo for your shotty just to look cool, then more power to ya brother. On the other hand if your looking for one for home defense then your an idiot, period. And as far as intimidating an intruder... what the HELL are you thinking?! Once some one has been identified as a threat to you or your family, ventilate them! If you want intimatation get a pit bull, if you want effectiveness go to multiple shops and find a stock/fore-grip set up that works for YOU. Thats my opinion as a federal firearms instructor. If you want my opinion as me, bayonets are for pictures and world wars, ive never been in one of those soooo i think its extra crap i have to carry. Im really glad to see some common sense in this thread. Take care.
Josh

 

[8Mud]

i dont like less than lethal rounds at all, being from MA originally a non lethal shot on an intruder means 5 to 10 hard time for the home owner. Its funny how someone can be tried in court for defending their home and family ha? Annnnnywayyssss, if you want a bayo for your shotty just to look cool, then more power to ya brother. On the other hand if your looking for one for home defense then your an idiot, period. And as far as intimidating an intruder... what the HELL are you thinking?! Once some one has been identified as a threat to you or your family, ventilate them! If you want intimatation get a pit bull, if you want effectiveness go to multiple shops and find a stock/fore-grip set up that works for YOU. Thats my opinion as a federal firearms instructor. If you want my opinion as me, bayonets are for pictures and world wars, ive never been in one of those soooo i think its extra crap i have to carry. Im really glad to see some common sense in this thread. Take care.
Josh

Common sense, the last time I discharged in my house. Two guys come to the front door, ask me where the previous owner of my house was. Told them he was dead for over a year and this was now my house. Guess they didn't believe me, two strapping young men, both over 220, went right over the top of me and left me sitting on my ass in the foyer. My wife yells down stairs, what's happening and they both take off up the stairs. She is in the bathtub naked, screams and they run back down the stairs and find me pointing a 9 MM at their heads. One says, you aren't going to shoot, as I let one loose right above thier heads into an outer brick wall.
Turns out, they were gangster bill collectors and believed the guy that owed them money was in hiding.
My solution was another gate between the street and the front door, motion sensors between the street and the front door wired to an automatic doorbell ( and outside lighting), a Rottweiler mix and a bigger gun.
Truth is stranger than fiction.
I pleaded accidental discharge, no harm no fowl, I didn't even have to appear.
The point of my story is (besides knowing Ecksjay hates them) that the reality is likely to be surreal and nothing like what you imagine.
Around here, if you shoot someone under 18, you can just about count on 5-7 years, the lawyers and fines to clean you out. Options can be a good thing.
I actually have shooting insurance, the exclusion clauses may or may not make it usefull. But what the heck, better than nothing.

 

[stewie]

You may want to change your home defense load - #4 buck, having smaller pellets, is much less likely to overpenetrate and endanger people on the other side of the wall. Use a full choke, and you're still probably going to hit with the whole payload anyhow - so you're not really losing anything thereby.

Just a thought. Also, work on reversing rather suddenly, and "poke-checking" with the shotty - house-clearing has very limited space (usually,) and a variation on the "one-inch power punch" can prove very useful. You'll transfer more energy using the butt end than the barrel end, and that gives you one more "less lethal" option.

You might also want to look into various "less lethal" ammo options - some are available to the public. Load the first couple of rounds as beanbags or stun balls, and you've got another "less lethal" option. One or two will serve - if a pair of stunball rounds won't take the fight out of a bad guy, you're going to have to kill him anyhow.

less lethal ammo is not an option for me. MAYBE if it had an extremely large ammo capacity then fine, but not with the relatively small ammo load of a shotgun. that and the time needed to cycle through two less than leathal rounds before getting to the good stuff can be the difference between life and death of loved ones. at the end of the day i know my family will be safe and sound in our beds but i cant always say the same for the BG.

hows the stopping power of #4 vs 00 buck? my barrel is a smooth slug barrel and i dont think it will even be able to accept a choke. my current load is two rounds of 00, slug, 00, slug with 2 rounds 00 and 3 slugs in a side saddle carrier.

i dont like less than lethal rounds at all, being from MA originally a non lethal shot on an intruder means 5 to 10 hard time for the home owner. Its funny how someone can be tried in court for defending their home and family ha? Annnnnywayyssss, if you want a bayo for your shotty just to look cool, then more power to ya brother. On the other hand if your looking for one for home defense then your an idiot, period. And as far as intimidating an intruder... what the HELL are you thinking?! Once some one has been identified as a threat to you or your family, ventilate them! If you want intimatation get a pit bull, if you want effectiveness go to multiple shops and find a stock/fore-grip set up that works for YOU. Thats my opinion as a federal firearms instructor. If you want my opinion as me, bayonets are for pictures and world wars, ive never been in one of those soooo i think its extra crap i have to carry. Im really glad to see some common sense in this thread. Take care.
Josh

inimidation, no. looks, no. another option in home/self/family defence, YES. bayos are not just for pictures and wars, although i have training in the latter hence the natural tendency to go with what you know. home/family defence is some of the most intence forms of CQC out there. and no battle rages more fierce than the battle to save and protect the ones you love.

perhaps you did not read the post i made (that i have convienently quoted down below this) regarding the poor tactical lay out of my home, necessitating the need for something that will not penetrate through a wall. and if it can be attatched to a weapon system already deployed, even better. so be fore you go calling someone an idiot, how about you take the time to read the facts and make a more worth while comment than calling someone an idiot. and besides, i am more likely to take the advice of a firearms instructor from a state that is not a socialist republic that requires a duty to retreat. here in the state of arizona open carry is legal and there is no duty to retreat or play dead like where you are. it is you sir, that is the idiot. especially for choosing to exisgt in a place like mass.

'but you have a shotty- why would you need a bayo?'- yah, my house isnt exactly tactially designed. i have an occupied bedroom that is downrange my main avenue of attack. it sits attop a "T" like intersection of two hallways and i approach from the bottom of the vertical line. 12 ga 00 buck pellets can easily penetrate that wall and jepardise the safety of that bedrooms occupant which is the reason i practice home defence at all. so yah, sometimes the blade would be better than the buckshot.

 

[ECKSJAY]

perhaps you did not read the post i made (that i have convienently quoted down below this) regarding the poor tactical lay out of my home, necessitating the need for something that will not penetrate through a wall. and if it can be attatched to a weapon system already deployed, even better. so be fore you go calling someone an idiot, how about you take the time to read the facts and make a more worth while comment than calling someone an idiot. and besides, i am more likely to take the advice of a firearms instructor from a state that is not a socialist republic that requires a duty to retreat. here in the state of arizona open carry is legal and there is no duty to retreat or play dead like where you are. it is you sir, that is the idiot. especially for choosing to exisgt in a place like mass.

Just as there are other states with different laws to move to, there are other homes that a guy can move to. :shhh: Bayonet is also a poor choice when you're trying to take out multiple targets. Reinforce the wall(s) of that downrange room to make it more difficult to penetrate if it's a major concern. Living where you do, you're in the prime country for defensive shooting schools. Keep away from 'tactical' bullshit that's geared toward military and cops. You are neither, you're a homeowner. Echoing what I said earlier, spend the money on a class and go learn something. Your military 'bayonet' training isn't going to mean jack to tweekers with guns. You'll just be the guy who brought a knife to a gun fight.

As for the #4 Buck penetration, it's going to be *the minimal amount to still be effective. Biggest suggestion here is to go buy some of each type of ammo you're considering, hit the range, and pattern test it. Even with similar makes and models of shotguns, different loads will pattern differently in each gun. You'll want to know this kind of thing before loading it into your defensive gun anyway. Federal and Remington both make a kickass 2 3/4" reduced recoil load in 4BK. Shop around.

 

[8Mud]

Just as there are other states with different laws to move to, there are other homes that a guy can move to. :shhh: Bayonet is also a poor choice when you're trying to take out multiple targets. Reinforce the wall(s) of that downrange room to make it more difficult to penetrate if it's a major concern. Living where you do, you're in the prime country for defensive shooting schools. Keep away from 'tactical' bullshit that's geared toward military and cops. You are neither, you're a homeowner. Echoing what I said earlier, spend the money on a class and go learn something. Your military 'bayonet' training isn't going to mean jack to tweekers with guns. You'll just be the guy who brought a knife to a gun fight.

As for the #4 Buck penetration, it's going to be *the minimal amount to still be effective. Biggest suggestion here is to go buy some of each type of ammo you're considering, hit the range, and pattern test it. Even with similar makes and models of shotguns, different loads will pattern differently in each gun. You'll want to know this kind of thing before loading it into your defensive gun anyway. Federal and Remington both make a kickass 2 3/4" reduced recoil load in 4BK. Shop around.

While you pattern your shotgun, step off the maximum range (biggest room) in your house and try a couple of loads at that distance. The results may be surprising, typically there really isn't much spread at close ranges. An ounce of shot at 10 feet is pretty much an ounce of shot, no matter whether it is bird or buck.
Removing the shot and putting in a load of 30 caliber gas checks, is likely to increase the spread some. Removing the cup and using a wad of cotton or rayon fill may also help it to spread some.
It's my understanding, the reason they use 4 buck is so the wound bleeds (not stopping power) though it does seem to work better than larger buckshot (It's a kinetic energy versus penetration thing). There are conventions saying smaller shot is inhuman and it is the smallest buck that may penetrate a car door or a windshield with any sort of reliability. I'm sure there are other reasons.

 

[GrimmJeeper]