To SoCal Chapter BOD

[Carol.92124]

Actually, Josh was Treasurer before me. Not Ron. I didn't get or see any Treasurer's Reports, nor was any ever requested until this last crapstorm. Cracker gave me some guidelines from what he provides to National.

But I've been many of the levels of Hell this year, and it's not looking to get much better.

Tomorrow I'm taking half the day off work to take my dad to his doctor because I think he has the beginnings of dementia, and he can't remember what the doctor's told him. I've spent almost every evening since So Cal Fest over at his house.

This Friday through Monday I'll be dealing with arranging and attending my beloved (no, I'm not being sarcastic) former Mother In Law's Memorial Service, who started seriously dying of cancer in February and lasted just over two months.

If I can keep on an even keel this Thursday (kinda depends on what the doc says about my dad), I'll finish up the report (at least thru the beginnings of SoCalFest) rather than also spending that day helping my outlaws with Jan's house & the memorial service. I guess my taxes and my kids' financial aid paperwork can wait a bit longer.

If I don't get it done Thursday, I guarantee it won't get done until at least mid-week next week.

I appreciate those who try to defend me, and try to sympathize with those who are pushing the issue. I do "get" it. And trust me, if I was mishandling or misusing funds, I would've been much more prompt & creative about providing a report...

Oh, and Cracker--thanks for making the MGE check out to Carol White... which hasn't been my legal name since 1987 =). Now I have to make it to the bank sometime when they're open, and deposit it in person, so I know that they'll accept it. Sunshine & lollipops all over the place!

Good night all.

 

[rockclimber]

You're missing the point. This is her job and she signed up for it. If life events occur that prevent her from full filling her duties, the right thing to do is to step down. Also with $ I hope there was ongoing accounting going on which would allow for quick production of reports. If not, then it's an even bigger issue as and I'd like to know why did the chapter BOD it get out of hand like this.

what's out of hand is the amount of BS being slung over this issue.

asking carol to step down over this is a mistake. even with the current issue, she is still one of the most active and most helpful members here.

Oh yeah... Chapter forum, chapter business, chapter meeting.... It kind of all goes together....

not really sure what you mean here

 

[Kejtar]

what's out of hand is the amount of BS being slung over this issue.

I'm not slinging any BS...

asking carol to step down over this is a mistake. even with the current issue, she is still one of the most active and most helpful members here.

active and helpful member in what way? BOD position is not about popularity, it's not about friends, it's about responsibilities to the chapter and to the club. That's all it is: it's a job. Yes it is an unpaid position, but it is a job nevertheless. If you don't get that, oh well....

not really sure what you mean here

You asked why wasn't this handled in PM.... well, that's the answer. We don't have "official" meetings. Our forum is an official meeting. This is where chapter business goes and this for sure is chapter business.

 

[Kejtar]

Actually, Josh was Treasurer before me. Not Ron. I didn't get or see any Treasurer's Reports, nor was any ever requested until this last crapstorm. Cracker gave me some guidelines from what he provides to National.

But I've been many of the levels of Hell this year, and it's not looking to get much better.

Tomorrow I'm taking half the day off work to take my dad to his doctor because I think he has the beginnings of dementia, and he can't remember what the doctor's told him. I've spent almost every evening since So Cal Fest over at his house.

This Friday through Monday I'll be dealing with arranging and attending my beloved (no, I'm not being sarcastic) former Mother In Law's Memorial Service, who started seriously dying of cancer in February and lasted just over two months.

If I can keep on an even keel this Thursday (kinda depends on what the doc says about my dad), I'll finish up the report (at least thru the beginnings of SoCalFest) rather than also spending that day helping my outlaws with Jan's house & the memorial service. I guess my taxes and my kids' financial aid paperwork can wait a bit longer.

If I don't get it done Thursday, I guarantee it won't get done until at least mid-week next week.

I appreciate those who try to defend me, and try to sympathize with those who are pushing the issue. I do "get" it. And trust me, if I was mishandling or misusing funds, I would've been much more prompt & creative about providing a report...

Oh, and Cracker--thanks for making the MGE check out to Carol White... which hasn't been my legal name since 1987 =). Now I have to make it to the bank sometime when they're open, and deposit it in person, so I know that they'll accept it. Sunshine & lollipops all over the place!

Good night all.

Carol, first of all, I am sorry for all that you're going through and I don't mean to take away from your trouble or hardship but if you need help, please reach out. I am not an accountant, but I"m good with numbers. I know there are others that have offered to help in the other thread as well. I also have never said that I think you're mishandling the funds.

With that being said, I believe that the reports are a newer things to the club though I recall something being provided to the national regarding the chapter funds as far back as five or six years ago (though my memory gets murky that far back). Anyways, five months is a long time and I believe that the original request that was posted in the chapter forum by cracker was a polite one
"Can we have a SoCal Chapter Treasurer's report for 2012 and a balance please?".
If clarification was needed or help, again 5 months is a long time.

Lastly, IIRC we () as an org have responsibilities to IRS to produce reports and so on to keep our status the way it is so that we don't have to pay taxes on money coming in..... I'd hate to see us get in trouble/fined or lose that status because we don't have our documents in order...

 

[tharlanjr]

I'm not slinging any BS...

active and helpful member in what way? BOD position is not about popularity, it's not about friends, it's about responsibilities to the chapter and to the club. That's all it is: it's a job. Yes it is an unpaid position, but it is a job nevertheless. If you don't get that, oh well....


You asked why wasn't this handled in PM.... well, that's the answer. We don't have "official" meetings. Our forum is an official meeting. This is where chapter business goes and this for sure is chapter business.

Bwahahaha. In the last couple years carol has done much more than many members of this club. What have you done? What has cracker done?

Hell I couldn't tell you what any of the other BOD have been up to.

And since when did being on the BOD stop being a popularity contest?

 

[Kejtar]

Bwahahaha. In the last couple years carol has done much more than many members of this club. What have you done? What has cracker done?

Hell I couldn't tell you what any of the other BOD have been up to.

And since when did being on the BOD stop being a popularity contest?

Hmmm what have I done? Grasshopper....... I've done what I've done and that's that. At the very least I pay my dues.....

 

[rockclimber]

I'm not slinging any BS...

you're not the only one here.

active and helpful member in what way? BOD position is not about popularity, it's not about friends, it's about responsibilities to the chapter and to the club. That's all it is: it's a job. Yes it is an unpaid position, but it is a job nevertheless. If you don't get that, oh well....

I get it. you don't seem to get that there is a lot more going on. been to an event lately? a meet and greet? a trail cleanup?

You asked why wasn't this handled in PM.... well, that's the answer. We don't have "official" meetings. Our forum is an official meeting. This is where chapter business goes and this for sure is chapter business.

this is chapter business that has already been hashed out. a PM to carol would have made this thread unnecessary..

and if people around here actually had other people's backs, this could have been handled by a PM to quite a few other people that know what is going on.

 

[Kejtar]

you're not the only one here.

I started this thread. I wanted to be transparent.

I get it. you don't seem to get that there is a lot more going on. been to an event lately? a meet and greet? a trail cleanup?

Well... I've been to a M&G couple months ago but with my current job it seems that the schedules conflict. Oh yeah, last time I checked there was never a requirement about going to events nor M&G in order to have good standing as a member.

this is chapter business that has already been hashed out. a PM to carol would have made this thread unnecessary..

Original post was already out there. Issue is ongoing. Seems to have had no movement. Why hide something that's out in the open? I haven't attacked anyone, I have thought this through and as a member I have requested action and again I am within my rights to state that if no satisfactory action is taken I will start a motion (after I read whatever steps need to be taken to do so ) to recall the treasurer. Nothing against the person at that position... Person and position are two separate things IMHO.....

and if people around here actually had other people's backs, this could have been handled by a PM to quite a few other people that know what is going on.

I believe that quite a few people offered to help in the original thread. How is that not having other people's backs? Also if you can't do something, step up, say it and ask for help and I know that a lot of people will offer to help.

 

[Skwerly]

Haha, folks act like this is new. Allow me to sharpen your pencils for you:

http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1088800

I was a very, VERY active member--there wasn’t a run or event I couldn’t be found attending. Now I’m not very active, and not just because of management reasons, of course. My life changes and gets busy like anyone else’s does.

That being said, isn’t what it was in 2007. I don’t even know if that’s a good or a bad thing anymore, but I know acting like it’s playground fight time doesn’t get anything resolved.

Those of you who know me know that I have a pretty light-hearted outlook on life but sometimes, it’s just time to act like an adult.

[FONT=&quot]This is one of those times. Let’s keep the crap-slinging to a minimum, shall we? Especially those who haven’t been in the club long enough to have actually shared a campfire with the likes of Remi. [/FONT]

 

[ruggedjeep]

It amazes me how so many of you do not know how a BOD operates or should operate. This is nothing personal. Every single member(RED letter) in the chapter has a right to request financials. Those who are responsible for providing what is required need to be held accountable. We dont need to hear excuses as to why they are NOT ready, because honestly ive read A LOT of excuses, valid or not, none of my business, the IRS isnt going to sympathize with you and neither should national.

These comments about "he or she has done more than anyone else" is just bullshit, one has nothing to do with the other. Nobody is saying Carol is a bad person but she chose to take on responsibility and we need to see results.

Its simple folks, you run for the position, members vote you in and members have a certain expectation, when that isnt met it becomes a problem. If you cant handle it and youre overwhelmed, nothing wrong with stepping down. The rest of the BOD starting from the President needs to step in and take action and this hasnt been done.

Ive learned from serving on multiple boards of non-profits, if you stay current on your responsibilities throughout the year, then you dont run into issues like this.

Bash me.

 

[Kejtar]

It amazes me how so many of you do not know how a BOD operates or should operate. This is nothing personal. Every single member(RED letter) in the chapter has a right to request financials. Those who are responsible for providing what is required need to be held accountable. We dont need to hear excuses as to why they are NOT ready, because honestly ive read A LOT of excuses, valid or not, none of my business, the IRS isnt going to sympathize with you and neither should national.

These comments about "he or she has done more than anyone else" is just bullshit, one has nothing to do with the other. Nobody is saying Carol is a bad person but she chose to take on responsibility and we need to see results.

Its simple folks, you run for the position, members vote you in and members have a certain expectation, when that isnt met it becomes a problem. If you cant handle it and youre overwhelmed, nothing wrong with stepping down. The rest of the BOD starting from the President needs to step in and take action and this hasnt been done.

Ive learned from serving on multiple boards of non-profits, if you stay current on your responsibilities throughout the year, then you dont run into issues like this.

Bash me.

Well said! No reason to bash you

 

[Carol.92124]

Not having ever been told until this year that reports were necessary, yes, I'm playing catch-up. It's not something that can be easily helped with, but it is something that can be easily maintained once I'm caught up, which is getting close.

When the SoCal BOD has asked what our financial status is (do we have enough money for... how much money do we have right now...) I've provided it.

Today is the first I've heard about any Chapter being accountable to National for our funding (other than providing reasons for requests for MGE funds and so forth). So I thought, "Hmm, let's see how the other Chapters do it".

Advanced Search in the last 6 months for "Treasurer Report" only returned results for the South East Chapter, who set up a separate "Sticky" thread in 2009, http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=997568&highlight=Treasurer%27s+Report , and had the same treasurer from then until this last January. Looks like the new Treasurer is continuing the concept.

I think that'd probably be the best way to do this going forward. So once I'm done, I'll have someone create a new "Sticky" thread, similar to the SEC one, and that should provide a template for anyone interested in, or involved in, SoCal Treasurer stuff, going forward.

If anyone finds the Treasurer Reports for other Chapters, please forward me the links so I can see what other Chapters are doing, as well.

Today is also the first I've heard of National needing to provide any Chapter financials to the IRS. I presume that National files an annual Tax Returns or something similar. I don't know what they've been doing the previous years when no one was providing reports--did the level of IRS scrutiny change recently?

 

[karstic]

Not having ever been told until this year that reports were necessary, yes, I'm playing catch-up. It's not something that can be easily helped with, but it is something that can be easily maintained once I'm caught up, which is getting close.

When the SoCal BOD has asked what our financial status is (do we have enough money for... how much money do we have right now...) I've provided it.

Today is the first I've heard about any Chapter being accountable to National for our funding (other than providing reasons for requests for MGE funds and so forth). So I thought, "Hmm, let's see how the other Chapters do it".

Advanced Search in the last 6 months for "Treasurer Report" only returned results for the South East Chapter, who set up a separate "Sticky" thread in 2009, http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=997568&highlight=Treasurer%27s+Report , and had the same treasurer from then until this last January. Looks like the new Treasurer is continuing the concept.

I think that'd probably be the best way to do this going forward. So once I'm done, I'll have someone create a new "Sticky" thread, similar to the SEC one, and that should provide a template for anyone interested in, or involved in, SoCal Treasurer stuff, going forward.

If anyone finds the Treasurer Reports for other Chapters, please forward me the links so I can see what other Chapters are doing, as well.

Today is also the first I've heard of National needing to provide any Chapter financials to the IRS. I presume that National files an annual Tax Returns or something similar. I don't know what they've been doing the previous years when no one was providing reports--did the level of IRS scrutiny change recently?

Carol I found out the same thing you did, SEC is the only chapter I found to post a Treasurers Report.

AFA National I would like to see where we, as a chapter, have to provide our financial status to National.

As an ex National DAL and as my current role as the chapter Rep to the National BOD I have never seen a chapter report their financials to National or seen a request for them.

 

[cracker]

National is not requesting this information....if it was National Business it wouldn't have been brought up in the Chapter forum but most likely the Members forum.

Chapter members are asking. Chapter member's own the money that the Chapter has in it's possession and have a right to know how the money is being spent/income/expenses.

SoCal Chapter adopted the National Bylaws when the chapter was created. A treasurer's role/obligations are outlined by the chapter bylaws. Annual reporting is part of the job.

 

[ocean_jet]

Carol has been a treasurer for three years so those should be able to be produced if need be. Before that I believe Ron kept those records and should have passed them along so yes, those should be able to be produced.

You imply they have been produced in the past.

Have they been produced? My guess is they have not.

Were they EVER produced for years prior to 2012? For years prior to Carol taking on the role?

Is this a new requirement of the treasurer or chapter?

Have we as a chapter just let this slide in the past? And if so why?

 

[GSequoia]

Chapter-level treasurer reports have never been created from day-one. They've also never been requested.


During the serveral years I was either a chapter president, national BOD officer, or worker bee guest to the BOD I've never seen national request such information from any chapter.


Keep in mind I am not arguing against generating this report, I am merely giving history that most of the people involved in this thread do not know.


PS - I do not think it is realistic or fair to demand retroactive reports going back to 2007.

 

[ruggedjeep]

Chapter-level treasurer reports have never been created from day-one. They've also never been requested.

I've never seen national request such information from any chapter.

That is absurd. How are things kept in order? What stops someone from pocketing donations or reporting any "income" ? Do chapters not get audited by National? Im just gonna go ahead and say no.

:doh:

 

[Kejtar]

Chapter-level treasurer reports have never been created from day-one.

That's not entirely true. Chapter BOD at one point kept a ledger that was somewhat kept up. While the chapter BOD hasn't done monthy reporting internally there was no problem getting numbers which were available to anyone for the asking. I do recall providing people with numbers when asked about them while I was the VP.

Here's an example of one that I have found (I'm providing it as I received it... typos incuded )

SoCal Ledger
Date Transaction Amount
12/4/05 Yearly Beginning Balance $675.46
2/2/06 Chapter Tee Shirts purchase ($501.75)
2/15/06 Tee shirts sold at Calico $793.00
2/15/06 Trail Pail Spill Kits ($104.00)
4/1/06 Chapter Tee Shirts purchase $328.00
5/15/06 Tee shirts sold $436.00
6/1/06 BB '06 proceeds $1,321.00
6/6/06 SBNF Equipment donation - BB '05 ($504.11)
6/6/06 Mike Obermeier Donation ($120.00)
6/6/06 Cash Box Purchase ($30.00)
7/30/06 Cal 4 Wheel Associate Membership ($45.00)
4/30/06 Collected from Richard G, JV Proceeds $348.00
10/28/06 Seirra split of JV '05 proceeds ($174.00)

$2,422.60
($1,188.00)
$1,234.60
Date Unissued Transaction
5/16/06 $0.00 JV Proceeds Split with Sierra Chapter
6/1/06 $594.00 BB 06' Proceeds, Donation to SBNF
6/1/06 $594.00 BB 06' Proceeds, Donation to FOPV
$1,188.00




Apparel balances
2/15/06 22 Shirts
6/1/06 1 L Shirt



Notes:
1 PETT System, Remi has.
2 Trail Pail spill kits, Remi, and Dan has.

If the chapter BOD hasn't kept up with the practice because noone asked, then its IMHO a big oops. Chapter to a degree is a business organization. It is supported from raffles, t-shirt sales, etc. I would like to know how much of $ and goods the chapter has. I wasn't overly concerned with it till I realized that there seems to be lack of accounting.

During the serveral years I was either a chapter president, national BOD officer, or worker bee guest to the BOD I've never seen national request such information from any chapter.

Well.. while I was on the national BOD forum some time ago, I do recall such information being asked of the chapters and it being difficult to obtain. If that practice was abandoned, no clue as I haven't been involved at that level for a while now.

Keep in mind I am not arguing against generating this report, I am merely giving history that most of the people involved in this thread do not know.

I've updated the history book for ya

PS - I do not think it is realistic or fair to demand retroactive reports going back to 2007.

I agree.... I've searched around for what I have but since I was never treasurer I only have bits and pieces that were provided to me when I asked for them.....

 

[Kejtar]

That is absurd. How are things kept in order? What stops someone from pocketing donations or reporting any "income" ? Do chapters not get audited by National? Im just gonna go ahead and say no.

:doh:

At one point there was a ledger and info was available within days of asking. Also if I recall correctly, SoCal adopted national bylaws the chapter SHOULD (and it did at one point) have an account and keep a ledger
http://www.naxja.org/html/bylaws.htm

The Treasurer shall establish and maintain a non-profit organization banking relationship with a local financial institution. The Treasurer shall process all dues and maintain records of all financial activity to be presented to the Board of Directors on a monthly basis.

 

[GSequoia]

That is absurd. How are things kept in order? What stops someone from pocketing donations or reporting any "income" ? Do chapters not get audited by National? Im just gonna go ahead and say no.

:doh:

While not a fully fleshed out reports there status updates have been requested by the BOD on several occasions. While it would be possible to embezzle some the amounts would be very small before others notice it. I keep a pretty close eye on chapter-funds (while I hold no official duties as a prior chapter president I have access to the BOD forum, lately I have been taking an active role in assisting the chapter BOD.)