Sky high battery costs, and dropping warranties

[Ecomike]

To sum up why I personally run an optima... To not have to think about a god damn battery, or even read any of the links below. My Optima has never let me down, I know others would dissagree.

Im not here saying 'get an optima', just trying to help explain.

How long have you let the rig sit with out starting and or charging the battery, opps, excuse me, I mean OPTIMA?

 

[MAY POP]

My Xtreme AGM has sat 2-3 months without starting and still seemed strong. Its about 18 months old now.
XJ has a 9-10 year old Optima Red top in it still going strong.

Ron

 

[WB9YZU]

How long have you let the rig sit with out starting and or charging the battery, opps, excuse me, I mean OPTIMA?

Seems to me that doesn't matter. It's been my experience that 6 months of sitting in a garage will drain most batteries flat because of the continuous draw from the PCM. And when they are flat, they rarely come back from the dead.

You should always trickle charge your batteries

-Ron

 

[MaxxXJ]

Btw, that whole 'gravity holds it down', doesnt work. I dunno how yours hasnt met the mechanical fan yet, and im not gonna say your lieing, but ive broken battery mounts, and instantly been able to tell what was going on when the battery hit the fan.

Like this

My top radiator hose holds it from sliding into the fan... I got a big battery

 

[WB9YZU]

I hate to see rigged up stuff like that, and there really is no excuse for it when it is so easy to do things right.

2 constructive suggestions:

1) Put in a battery holder. They are insanely cheep insurance.

2) Get covers for those wing nuts that are sticking up.

You will shoot yourself if you ever get in an accident or put your Jeep on it's side and that battery is the igniter for a Jeep consuming fire.

-Ron

 

[MaxxXJ]

I hate to see rigged up stuff like that, and there really is no excuse for it when it is so easy to do things right.

2 constructive suggestions:

1) Put in a battery holder. They are insanely cheep insurance.

2) Get covers for those wing nuts that are sticking up.

You will shoot yourself if you ever get in an accident or put your Jeep on it's side and that battery is the igniter for a Jeep consuming fire.

-Ron

I welcome constructive suggestions! It's one of those "I haven't gotten around to it yet" deals. Ill make my rounds today and get something to cover the wing nuts and stop by autozone for a battery hold down, I need to look at it again and make sure my battery box isn't busted, I may have to make a JY run for the whole setup.

 

[NJXJ666]

Had a optima red to in my jetta, the battery was 8 years old and still good when I sold the car. Jeep has a sears diehard platinum grp 34/78, the warranty is 4 years full replacement.

 

[xcm]

How long have you let the rig sit with out starting and or charging the battery, opps, excuse me, I mean OPTIMA?

My jeepspeed outlaw project has been moving slowly lately, it has sat for over a year with the battery on my work bench... it still reads over 12v (Ive used it to remote jump other vehicles with).

Some people will return a pair of boots when they slice the leather behind the steel toe, and consider it a 'warranty', I prefer to buy a product that doesnt NEED the warranty... Ive found that buying stuff because of the warranty only assures one thing... you'll be using that warranty. Furthermore, the warranty raises the price of everything you buy when people return shit all willy-nilly. Not saying you guys are doing this...

 

[Ecomike]

Seems to me that doesn't matter. It's been my experience that 6 months of sitting in a garage will drain most batteries flat because of the continuous draw from the PCM. And when they are flat, they rarely come back from the dead.

You should always trickle charge your batteries

-Ron

Interesting. I am not sure the older ones, Renix, have that problem, PCM power draw. I know my diesel does not, but it is not OEM anymore.

But I am shocked to be reading that some have batteries are lasting 9-10 years, and sitting for long periods with out sulfating and being permanently DOA.

 

[Ecomike]

My 85 (was 2.5 L gas, now diesel) diesel battery is the same way. But I added some rope from the side fender to the carry strap to limit its movement even more.

Like this

My top radiator hose holds it from sliding into the fan... I got a big battery

 

[Ecomike]

I had another long chat with the O'Reily's store manager yesterday, and he confirmed the following.

One, he said that the changes started with Walmart cancelling ALL prorating warranties on their auto batteries. When no one noticed or complained and they did not loose any sales, they made it permanent. At that point he said others followed Walmart, O'Reily's and Autozone being the first two I got store manager confirmations from. He said any old website stuff that says otherwise is out of date, and simply has not been updated, and that the warranty print out on the register receipt is what matters, and not old website info that needs correcting.

 

[Ecomike]

Had a optima red to in my jetta, the battery was 8 years old and still good when I sold the car. Jeep has a sears diehard platinum grp 34/78, the warranty is 4 years full replacement.

I don't think I have ever, in 35 years had a battery last a full 5 years, not even sure any of them lasted past the fourth full year. I have bought 4 new batteries this year :rattle:and need a fifth for the 87 I bought recently, so I may be a little more jumpy about the issue right now than most.

 

[Ecomike]

I prefer to buy a product that doesnt NEED the warranty... Ive found that buying stuff because of the warranty only assures one thing... you'll be using that warranty. Furthermore, the warranty raises the price of everything you buy when people return shit all willy-nilly. Not saying you guys are doing this...

Not sure I totally agree with all of that. I think the only thing I ever buy that I bother with the long term warranty issue on is parts, and mostly vehicle parts. I prefer to only buy from places that will swap stuff out no questions asked if it is DOA right after buying it. But since I do all my own repairs (and thus do not care about the major item warranty), house, appliances, vehicles, computers, and so on, I am only concerned with part warranties. I try to buy the best parts I can get, which are usually higher priced, but not always the most expensive (some worthless junk is the most expensive, like some stealership parts), and the ones I buy usually have the longest warranty.

 

[NJXJ666]

I don't think I have ever, in 35 years had a battery last a full 5 years, not even sure any of them lasted past the fourth full year. I have bought 4 new batteries this year :rattle:and need a fifth for the 87 I bought recently, so I may be a little more jumpy about the issue right now than most.

The shop I work in sometimes I see Walmart batteries that last for 5+ and high end interstates that last 3 only

 

[Ecomike]

The shop I work in sometimes I see Walmart batteries that last for 5+ and high end interstates that last 3 only

I might add that I am some a*al about maintaining a solid working starter, alternator and wiring to the battery on my XJs. I do not have any aftermarket loads on mine like many others do. So the only abuse mine see is being parked as DD pack up.

 

[Ecomike]

http://www.autos.com/car-maintenance/car-battery-trickle-charger-vs-float-charger

A car battery trickle charger is a device that derives energy from a source and transmits it to a secondary rechargeable battery to energize it. A trickle charger is a simple charger that charges the battery slowly. Both the trickle charger and the float charger are 12 v battery chargers that charge the battery at the same rate that it self-discharges.
Advantages of a Trickle Charger:

1. Continuous Charging of the Battery

Since a battery can discharge even when it’s not used, the trickle charger is very advantageous, as it continues to charge the battery and keeps it fully charged.
2. Trickle Charging

The car battery trickle charger gets its energy from a primary source such as electric power. It then slowly transmits this energy to a secondary rechargeable device such as the car battery. The car battery therefore gets energy slowly and steadily from the trickle charger. Since this energy is transferred to the car battery in a trickle, there is minimum risk of damage to the battery. There is no likelihood of an electric short circuit and the battery can generally withstand the flow of power.
3. Car Battery Trickle Charger Extends Battery Life

Since the trickle charger charges the battery when it’s not in use, it prevents sulphide on the lead plates of the battery. This helps prolong the life of the battery.
Disadvantages of a Trickle Charger:

1. Trickle Charger Needs to be Connected and Disconnected at Regular Intervals

The car battery trickle charger has no circuitry to prevent overcharging. It’s unable to identify whether the battery needs charging or is fully charged. It needs to be connected and disconnected at regular intervals to prevent damage to the plates or removal of electrolytes from the cells.
2. Trickle Charger Can Damage the Battery

The trickle charger is designed to top the battery charge to a 100 percent. Fully charging a battery for prolonged periods can damage the battery irrevocably.
Advantages of a Car Battery Float Charger:

1. Intelligent Circuitry

The float charger has sensors that can sense that the battery is fully charged. This enables the charger to shut off the charge so that there is minimum or no supply of energy to the battery. When the battery self-discharges sufficiently, the float charger starts supplying power.
2. Float Charger Can be Connected Indefinitely to the Car Battery

While you can only use the trickle charger for a day or two on a monthly basis to charge the car battery, the float charger can be indefinitely connected to the battery and cause no damage to it.
3. Float Charger Manages, Not Just Charges a Car Battery

A trickle charger is responsible for charging the battery. A float charger, on the other hand, manages the service life and efficiency of the car battery.
Disadvantages of a Float Charger:

1. Slow Charging

Float chargers are very slow at charging a car battery and they are ineffective in charging a completely dead car battery.
Car battery chargers are essential for keeping the battery in working condition, and you must choose one that suits your requirements. Trickle chargers that are fitted with a display that informs the car owner the battery is fully charged are a good choice. Similarly, float chargers that automatically modify the supply of power to the battery are beneficial.

 

[Ecomike]

http://www.4x4powersolutions.co.za/theory-around-battery-charging.html

This has a wealth of information on batteries!!

And here is a site I am looking at that has solar chargers.

http://www.batterystuff.com/solar-chargers/

 

[Ecomike]

http://www.batterystuff.com/solar-chargers/SP-2.html

solar charging system prevents the normal loss of battery power on vehicles stored outside no matter how long they sit unused–even months at a time. Industrial strength unbreakable 2-watt charger provides clean quiet energy for 12-volt lead acid type batteries; including AGM and Gel type. PulseTech uses patented scientifically proven technology that actually reduces the performance robbing lead-sulfate crystals that form on battery plates. By reducing the size of these damaging crystals, batteries can work at maximum capacity even when the vehicle is sitting unused. Batteries work harder and longer than ever thought possible.
PULSE Technology Patent Nos. 5,491,399 and 5,592,068.

I little expensive at $79, but...interesting

 

[Ecomike]

This has really got my attention. Never seen one exactly like this before, but it is very close (IIRC) to what I was told the US Army started using on stored vehicles right after the first Gulf War to keep the stored vehicle batteries at peak performance readiness.

http://www.batterystuff.com/battery-restoration/12-volt/OBD-12.html

The BatteryMINDer OnBoard Desulphators are designed to desulphate your batteries while you are operating your vehicle or when using a proper battery charger. The units utilize patented technology to produce a wide range of high frequency pulses known as RFP ™ (Random Frequency Pulsation) designed to dissolve both old and newly formed sulphate. RFP™ technology, sweeps the entire frequency range known to cause sulphation crystals to resonate and then safely dissolve them. Sulfuric acid, the main component in the sulphate crystals, safely returns to the battery’s electrolyte. The Specific Gravity (S.G.) of the electrolyte is now higher and able to generate more electrical energy-storage capacity than the previously sulphated batteries.

Additional advantages of using sulphation-free batteries include extended alternator and belt life, as the vehicle’s charging system no longer needs to work as hard trying to charge batteries that will not accept high alternator output current due to sulphation build-up. Much lower output current is now demanded from the alternator to keep clean, sulphate-free batteries fully charged.

The one I saw the US Army using (circa 1994) operated while the vehicle was off, while the one above works when the vehicle is on. IIRC it drew tiny amounts of power from the battery, then shoved that power back in using pulse charging to put the energy back in, and used high efficiency capacitors to draw the power needed to operate the charge cycle. The pulse wave was just enough power and just often enough to keep the batteries from sulphating. No doubt they needed to top off the charge on the battery periodically, but IIRC they went from needing to charge them weekly (or run the engines to charge them) to getting 3-6 months between maintenance charges.

 

[DrMoab]

I don't think I have ever, in 35 years had a battery last a full 5 years, not even sure any of them lasted past the fourth full year. I have bought 4 new batteries this year :rattle:and need a fifth for the 87 I bought recently, so I may be a little more jumpy about the issue right now than most.

The battery in my Camry came with the car. I bought it eight years ago.