Sky high battery costs, and dropping warranties

When I first heard about the desulphator systems, they were being used on long-haul semis. The advantage of the system was they approximately tripled the life of the battery pack on a semi. The down-side was the cost about 3 times as much as a set of batteries. This is a worthwhile investment on half-million mile per year over the road semis that essentially don't wear out. It doesn't make as much sense on a typical car that you may have to keep for a decade to see a pay back, when most people don't keep cars that long.

I haven't looked recently, but it looks like the system price has come down to an affordable level. Depending on how complex the hook-up is, you might be able to buy one system and swap it around among your "fleet", say,.. a couple months on each vehicle, or maybe put it on your DD and rotate the batteries in over time.

MaxxXJ
1 )Dude, that's not "gravity hold down", it's "Force-fit".

2) Haven't gotten around to it? Really? At least throw a bungi-strap over it. And you probably should cover the terminals to keep it from bouncing the terminals into the hood.
 
tbburg said:
When I first heard about the desulphator systems, they were being used on long-haul semis. The advantage of the system was they approximately tripled the life of the battery pack on a semi. The down-side was the cost about 3 times as much as a set of batteries. This is a worthwhile investment on half-million mile per year over the road semis that essentially don't wear out. It doesn't make as much sense on a typical car that you may have to keep for a decade to see a pay back, when most people don't keep cars that long.

I haven't looked recently, but it looks like the system price has come down to an affordable level. Depending on how complex the hook-up is, you might be able to buy one system and swap it around among your "fleet", say,.. a couple months on each vehicle, or maybe put it on your DD and rotate the batteries in over time.
Click to expand...

I agree, using one on a DD that is driven daily probably is over kill, with no payback. Three DD backups, that sit for 6 months out of the year on average (as back ups or while I am working on them) is another story.

Hook up looks real simple on all of them.
 
Last edited:
tbburg said:
MaxxXJ
1 )Dude, that's not "gravity hold down", it's "Force-fit".

2) Haven't gotten around to it? Really? At least throw a bungi-strap over it. And you probably should cover the terminals to keep it from bouncing the terminals into the hood.
Click to expand...

It has the hood insulation so even if it hit the hood it couldn't ground out... I like forcing it to fit ;) I got some bungie straps today, it will get strapped for safety
 
Ecomike said:
I had another long chat with the O'Reily's store manager yesterday, and he confirmed the following.

One, he said that the changes started with Walmart cancelling ALL prorating warranties on their auto batteries. When no one noticed or complained and they did not loose any sales, they made it permanent. At that point he said others followed Walmart, O'Reily's and Autozone being the first two I got store manager confirmations from. He said any old website stuff that says otherwise is out of date, and simply has not been updated, and that the warranty print out on the register receipt is what matters, and not old website info that needs correcting.
Click to expand...

The main cauyse of all the recent warranty changes are due to Interstate battery losing a lawsuit that was filed against them for the way they issued prorata adjustment credit. All the players did this but Interstate got taken to court.

Here is how they get you. You buy a battery for a reasonable retail price, say $100 for a 60 month battery. The prorata per month should be $1.67. But if you look in the data pages they say that battery sells for $150, which works out to $2.50 per month. Basically the customer gets screwed since the price of the battery is reduced faster using the higher amount ($2.50/mo). In the end the customer wasn't getting the credit they were due.

Now what you will find is all major brand batteries (Exide, Interstate, and Deka) have gone to a free replacement period only. After that time has passed you have to buy another battery.

Now people who control their brands like Sears, Autozone, O'Reilly's, etc, can choose to still offer the prorata but they better be sure to issue the credit based on the actually selling price not some inflated value.

Maybe this will help.

As a side note, I will only use East Penn (Deka) batteries. I've been through the plant in PA and it is state-of-the-art campared to others I've been through. Made in USA!
 
had to get a new battery today, mine has been on it's last leg for some time now, and it was the coldest day of the year today so it just wouldnt start. went to autozone, prices are definitely through the roof. cheapest battery was $99, i ended up just getting the platinum which retailed for 155. warranty is 3 years, 2 years for the cheap one. luckily the dude gave me a decent discount so it wasnt too bad, but still... ouch.

old battery was the cheapest one walmart sells, lasted almost 6 years. not bad!
 
PacificEd said:
The main cause of all the recent warranty changes are due to Interstate battery losing a lawsuit that was filed against them for the way they issued prorata adjustment credit. All the players did this but Interstate got taken to court.

Here is how they get you. You buy a battery for a reasonable retail price, say $100 for a 60 month battery. The prorata per month should be $1.67. But if you look in the data pages they say that battery sells for $150, which works out to $2.50 per month. Basically the customer gets screwed since the price of the battery is reduced faster using the higher amount ($2.50/mo). In the end the customer wasn't getting the credit they were due.

Now what you will find is all major brand batteries (Exide, Interstate, and Deka) have gone to a free replacement period only. After that time has passed you have to buy another battery.

Now people who control their brands like Sears, Autozone, O'Reilly's, etc, can choose to still offer the prorata but they better be sure to issue the credit based on the actually selling price not some inflated value.

Maybe this will help.

As a side note, I will only use East Penn (Deka) batteries. I've been through the plant in PA and it is state-of-the-art campared to others I've been through. Made in USA!
Click to expand...

Great info, thanks for sharing!!!! Makes a lot more sense now!! I noticed over the years another part of that issue, and that was I bought a $50 battery say 3 years ago, and the battery is now $100, so all I get is about $15 to $20 off a $100 battery for my warranty on a $50 battery (the same exact battery). That happened to me about 2-3 years ago, roughly as I recall. The prices I used are just examples.

Thanks again for shedding some light on part of the story, the change in warranties.
 
I have had Optima's but after several just dying from sitting long periods I gave up and now just buy a cheap ole lead acid from O'reilly's or Auto-Zone.

Over the last year the transit buses in my yard had all the lead-acid batteries replaced with AGMs. This was done because corrosion on the battery terminals is now an Out-Of-Service criteria for the Commercial Vehicl Safety Alliance and the California Highway Patrol. In the past year we have had zero corrision problems but routinely have to pull batteries and place on a charging bank to keep them from giving up the ghost completely.
 
Boatwrench said:
I have had Optima's but after several just dying from sitting long periods I gave up and now just buy a cheap ole lead acid from O'reilly's or Auto-Zone.

Over the last year the transit buses in my yard had all the lead-acid batteries replaced with AGMs. This was done because corrosion on the battery terminals is now an Out-Of-Service criteria for the Commercial Vehicl Safety Alliance and the California Highway Patrol. In the past year we have had zero corrosion problems but routinely have to pull batteries and place on a charging bank to keep them from giving up the ghost completely.
Click to expand...

It is interesting to see the extreme differences in life span being reported here!!!

And they are not cheap anymore,:eek: LOL!!!
 
My DUralast gold amazed me today... I pulled a 10,000 lb f350 for 20-30 feet today up an icy road with my lil 8000 lb winch :) didnt get hot or nothin :) I was a lil worried for my synthetic line though
 
Ecomike said:
It is interesting to see the extreme differences in life span being reported here!!!

And they are not cheap anymore,:eek: LOL!!!
Click to expand...

I brought the last Optima into work and left it on an AGM conditioner. Took it home when it was fully charged and placed on a wooden shelf in the garage. Went to install it the following Saturday and it was dead. The need for AGM in my personal vehicles is not necessary since most of the off-road time is trail riding to geocache. I purchase from autozone or o'reilly's because they are nationwide and if I have a problem while traveling there will be one of the two close by.
 
G2WANIT said:
What is a good float charger to use on my AGM battery that gets driven monthly in the summer and less in the winter?
Click to expand...

That is a question I am looking for an answer to, and one of the reasons I started this OEM Tech :bawl:thread :eyes:.

I am seeing two options we need to consider that cost extra, one is temperature compensation the other is plate desulfation electronics added to the float charger package.

Harbor Freight has a dirt cheap, $5.95 ea sale on (I bought two last night on line) for a float charger with no bells or whistles. I had one that worked fine for year keeping a battery fresh and ready, but it (the float charger) vanished now that I want to find it and it use it again.

But the ones I see with the two added goodies, one or the other or both run from about $40 to $150 which a large difference!!!!!

There are links to several suppliers with the fancy ones in the links I posted in this thread already.

Here is the run down on temperature compensation:

http://batteryminders.com/static_page.php?nick=temp

I am thinking of buying one of these, but I am wondering about the temperature issue.

http://www.batterystuff.com/battery-restoration/12-volt/OBD-12.html
 
MaxxXJ said:
It has the hood insulation so even if it hit the hood it couldn't ground out... I like forcing it to fit ;) I got some bungie straps today, it will get strapped for safety
Click to expand...
I'm glad I don't wheel with you, even out east with almost no space to really open it up (I max out around 50 offroad in only one spot, everywhere else peak is like 20-30 mostly due to my terrible suspension setup) I managed to destroy my battery tray and hold down by hitting bumps and washboards, and it proceeded to hit the hood immediately. Smelled an odd burning smell, stopped, and fixed it right then.

Put a proper hold down bar/bolts and tray on that thing immediately before you give SUWA/greenpeace another picture of a miles-long smoke cloud coming from a burning jeep in the desert.
 
Originally Posted by MaxxXJ
"It has the hood insulation so even if it hit the hood it couldn't ground out... I like forcing it to fit I got some bungie straps today, it will get strapped for safety"

Hmm...
Cut-n-pasted from the NAXJA bylaws. :

Section 3: Required Equipment for Event Participation
NAXJA VERY HIGHLY recommends that all event participants have a CB Radio.
NAXJA requires all listed items to be present, and available for use, for a vehicle to be permitted to participate in a event. Participants are expected to stow equipment and all other items within their vehicle in a safe manner, conscious of the effects of OHV use and possible shifting of items.
NAXJA Safety Inspectors will use this list for safety inspections prior to any event. The Safety Inspector has final say in approval or rejection of any vehicle for event participation and may at anytime defer to a second event or club officer for additional ruling.
NAXJA expects each event participant to carry insurance and registration sufficient to meet the legal requirements of their vehicle state of residence and for the roads and trails traveled for the event. NAXJA is not responsible for assuring an entrant's vehicle is legal for the roads and trails traveled in the event.

Equipment List
Visibly charged fire extinguisher (BC or ABC)
First aid kit
Adequate spare tire, jack and lug wrench
Safety belts for driver and any current passenger
Adequate attachment points in the front and rear of the vehicle:
Acceptable forms of attachment points: (All Items must be mounted in a manner to provide adequate strength and integrity)
Tow hooks of OEM or greater integrity
D-Rings
Shackle/Clevis
20ft 10,000lb snatch strap without any metal hooks
Secured battery (no bungee cords)
 
Boatwrench said:
Originally Posted by MaxxXJ
"It has the hood insulation so even if it hit the hood it couldn't ground out... I like forcing it to fit I got some bungie straps today, it will get strapped for safety"

Hmm...
Cut-n-pasted from the NAXJA bylaws. :

Section 3: Required Equipment for Event Participation
NAXJA VERY HIGHLY recommends that all event participants have a CB Radio.
NAXJA requires all listed items to be present, and available for use, for a vehicle to be permitted to participate in a event. Participants are expected to stow equipment and all other items within their vehicle in a safe manner, conscious of the effects of OHV use and possible shifting of items.
NAXJA Safety Inspectors will use this list for safety inspections prior to any event. The Safety Inspector has final say in approval or rejection of any vehicle for event participation and may at anytime defer to a second event or club officer for additional ruling.
NAXJA expects each event participant to carry insurance and registration sufficient to meet the legal requirements of their vehicle state of residence and for the roads and trails traveled for the event. NAXJA is not responsible for assuring an entrant's vehicle is legal for the roads and trails traveled in the event.

Equipment List
Visibly charged fire extinguisher (BC or ABC)
First aid kit
Adequate spare tire, jack and lug wrench
Safety belts for driver and any current passenger
Adequate attachment points in the front and rear of the vehicle:
Acceptable forms of attachment points: (All Items must be mounted in a manner to provide adequate strength and integrity)
Tow hooks of OEM or greater integrity
D-Rings
Shackle/Clevis
20ft 10,000lb snatch strap without any metal hooks
Secured battery (no bungee cords)
Click to expand...

"Hmm..." Guess it's a good thing I'm not a paying member and go to any kind of event funded by naxja huh Ted, furthermore, my jeep is far safer than EVERYONE else I've ever wheeled with if on that entire list only issue is I have is a improperly secured battery, I'm usually the only one with shackles/winch/slings/air compressor/jumper cables/tools/GPS/fire extinguisher/food/drinks/tire repair kit and new spare tire on the trail... Lets just hope we don't wheel together so I can pick apart how unsafe your vehicle is vs my battery not being properly secured down...

Kastein, I've done washboard roads at 50+, whoop sections, jumped my jeep and everything else, never had an issue. It hasn't even moved actually... Maybe I'm just lucky... You've never seen me wheel though so you can't judge my Offroading ability based on simply having a broken battery box, especially when you yourself have broke battery boxes with it being properly secured...
 
That's called luck. Whether your unsecured battery hit the hood or not has nothing to do with skill and everything to do with random chance.

Stop playing russian roulette and install a proper hold down. No, a bungee does not count.

Hood insulation won't stop it either, if you don't believe me, consider how much resistance to puncture a thin sheet of compressed fiberglass batt has to being torn by a 30lb battery with a fairly pointy nub on top.
 
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