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retubing an axle

i got the axle finished and installed last week, everything seems to work fine. running gusseted dana 30 inner c's and wj knuckles. chromo shafts, new 2000 xj unit bearings, new spicer ball joints (found them for $80 for the entire axle here: http://www.alljeep.com/oscommerce/product_info.php?products_id=167872 ), teves brakes and redrilled wj rotors (they work fine so far), and all brackets came from polyperformance. took it wheeling twice, so far so good.
got the coilovers installed as well, running 12x2.0 fox remote resi's, 225lb over 375lb springs, about 50% droop, 5" of lift. i just need to trim the fenders a little more and "massage" one corner of the inner fender and i'll get full up travel and droop.
as you could imagine, it is all martenistic stainless steel, .006" wall for extra rigidity.
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stock wj steering for the time being. i'll go OTK soon enough, just wanted to get it on the road.

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Souske in the background changing rhd Julio's shaft.
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i got the axle finished and installed last week, everything seems to work fine. running gusseted dana 30 inner c's and wj knuckles. chromo shafts, new 2000 xj unit bearings, new spicer ball joints (found them for $80 for the entire axle here: http://www.alljeep.com/oscommerce/product_info.php?products_id=167872 ), teves brakes and redrilled wj rotors (they work fine so far), and all brackets came from polyperformance. took it wheeling twice, so far so good.
got the coilovers installed as well, running 12x2.0 fox remote resi's, 225lb over 375lb springs, about 50% droop, 5" of lift. i just need to trim the fenders a little more and "massage" one corner of the inner fender and i'll get full up travel and droop..

Looks nice, good job dude.

The only thing I would do is go OTK and use "gm 1 ton ends".

My buddy and I tried going OTK using a RHD draglink end at the knuckle, but they kept bending (crappy parts).

as you could imagine, it is all martenistic stainless steel, .006" wall for extra rigidity.

:laugh:
 
Looks nice, good job dude.

The only thing I would do is go OTK and use "gm 1 ton ends".

My buddy and I tried going OTK using a RHD draglink end at the knuckle, but they kept bending (crappy parts).



:laugh:
thanks man!
1 ton is the plan, my buddy has a reamer i can use. not sure if i can ream it from the other side for 1 ton ends without an insert but i suppose it's easy enough to check. otherwise i can get the inserts.

i ended up shortening the wj drag link a few inches and it worked ok, but it's definitely only temporary. the axle is about jk width so the stock wj tie rod was a perfect fit.
 
I gotta ask, why didn't you run the Dana 44 C's knuckles and outers and ditch the unit bearings and run selectable hubs if you want?


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1 ton is the plan, my buddy has a reamer i can use. not sure if i can ream it from the other side for 1 ton ends without an insert but i suppose it's easy enough to check. otherwise i can get the inserts.

x2 on the 1tons, I've bent and maxed out the WJ TRE's as well. There should be enough meat on the knuckles to drill the hole out to 5/8's IIRC and ream from the top.


Do you have some more pics from under the hood of the coilover mounts?
 
I gotta ask, why didn't you run the Dana 44 C's knuckles and outers and ditch the unit bearings and run selectable hubs if you want?
didnt want to deal with locking hubs, changing bcd's, etc. and i've never had a problem with the d30 stuff other than the locker and inner shafts.
if i start breaking stuff on this i'll probably just build a 60 and get it over with.
 
x2 on the 1tons, I've bent and maxed out the WJ TRE's as well. There should be enough meat on the knuckles to drill the hole out to 5/8's IIRC and ream from the top.


Do you have some more pics from under the hood of the coilover mounts?
cool, good to know. i can measure the taper on some 1 ton knuckles to double check i suppose.

Yea, i'll get some better pics soon. i have some but cell phone shots so kinda crappy, not worth posting.
 
the best pics i can get for now. i have the rear end pulled apart now so i cant move it out of the sun.
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here's a pic of it in mid build

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if you plan on flipping the one ton TREs to the top of the knuckle, there won't be enough material to not use an insert. and whatever insert you use, weld it in.
 
also, having the reservoirs under the hood is a bad idea. those are going to get hot quick and you are gonna get a lot of shock fade.

I would run them out into the fender or on top of it.
 
those coilover mounts look kinda worrying structurally... is there anything except the plate steel box holding it together? I sure hope so.

e: just saw the pics in the TOTY thread... better but still kinda scary.
 
those coilover mounts look kinda worrying structurally... is there anything except the plate steel box holding it together? I sure hope so.

e: just saw the pics in the TOTY thread... better but still kinda scary.
do you have any suggestions to beef it up? i didnt really see it going anywhere, but i'm open to constructive criticism.
i cant see them flexing inboard or outboard much. i was thinking was running some angle iron over all the corners and rosette/stich welding it on, in case my welds failed. it's all welded internally and externally though.
i had planned on trianglating the cross bar to the firewall eventually as well.
 
After seeing some crazy stuff over the years, I think it'll hold the way it is. I have seen less do the big hit high speed stuff.

That being said, I would tie more tubework into it.
 
I'm not honestly sure. I probably would have built a tube hoop from the frame behind the coilover to the frame in front of the coilover with shock tabs off it like most people, then built a sheetmetal box/shield around that to keep the engine bay somewhat cleaner, but I'm no expert on the subject.

Starting with what you have already, I'd likely do what you said - add angle iron on the corners so you get a bit more weld cross section involved.

How is the through bolt for the coilover attached to the side walls of the box? I can't quite figure out what I'm looking at there, all I see is an access hole through the front of the box to get at what I assume is a through bolt.

If you have plates on either side of the coilover or similar with a through bolt - seems good to me. If it's somehow mounted in double shear using long bolts and long spacers on each side, going to the walls of the box themselves, I'd worry, the longer the spacers get, the more bending force is applied to the bolt rather than shear. At least that's how it seems to me, I'm definitely not a mechanical engineer.
 
That being said, I would tie more tubework into it.

yea, i figured cage first then i can tie it into that, somehow. other than that i figured 2 tubes coming off the cross tube, triangulated to the firewall to soak up some side to side load.
 
I'm not honestly sure. I probably would have built a tube hoop from the frame behind the coilover to the frame in front of the coilover with shock tabs off it like most people, then built a sheetmetal box/shield around that to keep the engine bay somewhat cleaner, but I'm no expert on the subject.

Starting with what you have already, I'd likely do what you said - add angle iron on the corners so you get a bit more weld cross section involved.

How is the through bolt for the coilover attached to the side walls of the box? I can't quite figure out what I'm looking at there, all I see is an access hole through the front of the box to get at what I assume is a through bolt.

If you have plates on either side of the coilover or similar with a through bolt - seems good to me. If it's somehow mounted in double shear using long bolts and long spacers on each side, going to the walls of the box themselves, I'd worry, the longer the spacers get, the more bending force is applied to the bolt rather than shear. At least that's how it seems to me, I'm definitely not a mechanical engineer.

as long as the bolts are torqued to spec, the force will be in tension, not shear. the clamping force of the mount on the spacers and the spacers on the shock rod end is what is holding you together. if that bolt ever loosens up enough to loose clamp, then the force becomes shear on the bolt and thats when you run into problems.

its the same way Control arm joints work. hopefully, if the bolt loosens up, you will hear it moving around before it breaks.

I would not be worried about the mount tearing, but a bit more bracing would ease everyone's minds :clap:

I'm gonna save that last part for future :wave: reference
 
I'm not honestly sure. I probably would have built a tube hoop from the frame behind the coilover to the frame in front of the coilover with shock tabs off it like most people, then built a sheetmetal box/shield around that to keep the engine bay somewhat cleaner, but I'm no expert on the subject.

Starting with what you have already, I'd likely do what you said - add angle iron on the corners so you get a bit more weld cross section involved.

How is the through bolt for the coilover attached to the side walls of the box? I can't quite figure out what I'm looking at there, all I see is an access hole through the front of the box to get at what I assume is a through bolt.

If you have plates on either side of the coilover or similar with a through bolt - seems good to me. If it's somehow mounted in double shear using long bolts and long spacers on each side, going to the walls of the box themselves, I'd worry, the longer the spacers get, the more bending force is applied to the bolt rather than shear. At least that's how it seems to me, I'm definitely not a mechanical engineer.

i couldnt picture a good way of doing a shock hoop and fastening it to the sheetmetal remotely easily. the reasoning for doing it like this was to spread the load over a few feet of the uniframe. i figured the large frame stiffener piece would keep it from ripping upwards, and the side plates would help keep that piece from flexing in either direction. it would have to rip several feet of weld on each side in order to fail since it's welded inside and outside on every joint.
it wasnt really to keep the engine bay clean or anything, it just seemed to be the most simple way of doing it given my equipment and ability, and i have the rear done similarly and that's been working fine so far. plus space is a bit of a premium and this didnt require changing much other than the air box.
that was my thoughts anyways when designing it, what it'll do may be another story, i'm not a mech engineer either :D

it's got double shear tabs inside welded to the top plate. the side holes are only for access. the bolts are like 2.5" long, using the standard misalignment spacers that come with the shocks.
 
as long as the bolts are torqued to spec, the force will be in tension, not shear. the clamping force of the mount on the spacers and the spacers on the shock rod end is what is holding you together. if that bolt ever loosens up enough to loose clamp, then the force becomes shear on the bolt and thats when you run into problems.

its the same way Control arm joints work. hopefully, if the bolt loosens up, you will hear it moving around before it breaks.

I would not be worried about the mount tearing, but a bit more bracing would ease everyone's minds :clap:

I'm gonna save that last part for future :wave: reference

Take it to its illogical conclusion and you'll see what I'm getting at. Suppose you have two mounting ears, one foot apart, with the coilover in between them, and a 14" long bolt and two ~5" spacers centering the coilover between the mounting ears.

Now put a force on the coilover. That damn bolt is going to bend more than it would if the mounting ears were right next to the coilover, given the same tension on the bolt, and thus the same torque on the bolt (assuming the same thread pitch and diameter, etc.)

I'm probably using all the wrong terms, but basically my point is, you want the mounting ears to be as close as possible to the point the load is applied at, and the bolt therefore to be as short as possible. The longer the spacers get, the more tension you are going to need on the bolt to keep the deflection to the same amount, and at some point you're going to need to go up a size and use thicker spacers because the leverage (almost certainly the wrong term, some kind of bending moment maybe?) will result in the spacer crushing or the bolt stretching instead of the force being applied to the mounting ears. When that happens, the bolt will bend sideways instead of being under shear.

i couldnt picture a good way of doing a shock hoop and fastening it to the sheetmetal remotely easily. the reasoning for doing it like this was to spread the load over a few feet of the uniframe. i figured the large frame stiffener piece would keep it from ripping upwards, and the side plates would help keep that piece from flexing in either direction. it would have to rip several feet of weld on each side in order to fail since it's welded inside and outside on every joint.
it wasnt really to keep the engine bay clean or anything, it just seemed to be the most simple way of doing it given my equipment and ability, and i have the rear done similarly and that's been working fine so far. plus space is a bit of a premium and this didnt require changing much other than the air box.
that was my thoughts anyways when designing it, what it'll do may be another story, i'm not a mech engineer either :D

it's got double shear tabs inside welded to the top plate. the side holes are only for access. the bolts are like 2.5" long, using the standard misalignment spacers that come with the shocks.
I'd definitely put angle iron all the way around the top plate and probably some stiffening ribs across the plate as well, then, especially if the double shear tabs don't extend all the way to the box walls or aren't full welded to them at their ends. What I'm picturing is kinda like what the U-bolt plate shock tabs RuffStuff sells, which also have the benefit of adding stiffness to the U-bolt plate. http://www.ruffstuffspecialties.com/catalog/SPLT-KIT.html

Everything else seems fine enough to me, but again I'm not a mechanical engineer, I'm an EE :eyes: I'm going on what my gut tells me is gonna happen here.

e: rockclimber, while I am honored :)gee:) to have found my way into your signature, might I suggest you keep it to under 4 lines? You're currently at 10 lines on my screen, you can easily cut that down to 3 or 4 if you just manually url-ize the quotes to point to the correct posts rather than using quote tags.
 
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