Is the a cheap way to get there from here?

[Big Red]

I would still go with it. We're running trails with extreme amounts of traction with complete disregaurd for damage & this is the first time I've broke this front end. I'll end up keeping this front end until I crack it like an egg & am forced to do something else. I'm at 4.3:1 in the case & 5:38's at the diffs with an auto. It also seems that my foot is getting heavier as the falls we're climbing get taller as well... A 60 the way I'd like it built along with 40" tires (if you go 60's than you have to go 40"s) would start to push the $10,000 mark... At that price I'd be better off looking for used buggy's that have already depreciated their blinging parts & buying it. I'd rape it for what parts I wanted & sell off the rest. A guy came rolling up behind us in a buggy that weekend. He bought it for 17K & had a very blinging drive train. It was an old comp rig & I can't stop thinking about it & how he stole it...

Matt

At least that guy didn't get the satisfaction of building it himself.
It sure quickens up the process (sign the check, get the rig, wheel the thing). If you break something on it.....oh crap this isn't supposed to happen, now what do I do??? :laugh3:

 

[Matt S.]

Can we get back onto topic.. lots of good info. Troy, dont talk about things you dont know about. You do your best and I will do mine.


The only thing I have to add, is that dont break the 44 into eggshells to get the 60. Let me buy the 44 before you destroy it!

 

[FarmerMatt]

The only thing I have to add, is that dont break the 44 into eggshells to get the 60. Let me buy the 44 before you destroy it!

6K & I'll deliver it tonight...

 

[Mike L]

Can we get back onto topic.. lots of good info. Troy, dont talk about things you dont know about. You do your best and I will do mine.


The only thing I have to add, is that dont break the 44 into eggshells to get the 60. Let me buy the 44 before you destroy it!

Nice. That would be the way to go. Otherwise just offer to buy the Cat so Matt can build a complete buggy or he can buy a used/abused one.

-Mike

 

[Ghost]

I would still go with it. We're running trails with extreme amounts of traction with complete disregaurd for damage Matt

Hmmm, you have not seen me drive.... lol Even though I don't get to run the big trails but once a year atm I have run and plan on running the hard ones at the crawl. I'll build it maily bc I think the D60 is a huge waste of my time and money with the loss in ground clearance. If I start to break this one I'll look at hybrid options or something along those lines.. I dont know what tire size I'll end up with but right now it will either be 35's or 37's.... Hopefully I'll get a hi9 for the rear eventually. Maybe I'll look at the hi9 D60 outer idea when I fubar this one.

 

[Goatman]

My head hurts after reading all this malarkie... so a question. Would the D44 I'm building hold up to 37"s behind the 4 popper and 5.38's? What if I og the doubler route and a 4 or 5 to 1 low low range? Any thoughts? Am I pissing up a rope?

I think you're fine. We're running hard rocky trails with big ledges and places where we get in a good bind. I've never broken anything in my D44 with 37's just from gassing it. It's always been when I was hung up in the back and couldn't go anywhere so the front had to spin under a bind, and I gave it gas to try to pop out of it. Oh, and one time I was backing up a ledge with my frame hung up pretty good, with the front tire climbing back up and I broke a hub. Most people, in most situations, with alloy shafts and good aftermarket axle joints aren't going to have a problem. I have a 4.6 stroker with a 4 to 1 and 5.13's, so there's a lot of torque being transfered, and I've always broken something on the front when bound up on hard rock.

However, if you're in the middle of a build, and plan to run 37's, just understand that you're pushing the edge of a D44's limits if you abuse it. If I drove like I did when I had a D30 with stock shafts and 260x axle u-joints and 32" tires I'd never break the D44 even with 37's. However, I drive much harder than that now.

Oh, and when I ran this same combination with 35's it was bulletproof.

 

[basalt51]

Oh, and when I ran this same combination with 35's it was bulletproof.

Thats all I wanted to here. I was starting to worry a little myself

 

[cracker]

Oh, and when I ran this same combination with 35's it was bulletproof.

I only broke one Warn Premium hub on 35s with this setup.

 

[Lincoln]

Lincoln, do you (or anyone) think there is a downside to the 450 inner C & unit bearing route? I really like the idea of eliminating hubs, but it will cost as much as going full bling Dedenbear inners & outers, etc...
D60 hubs stick out 0.5" further than 44 hubs, that would bug me to no end.

Paul

I'm with Andy on this. The only thing I've wondered about is how they would handle beating across the desert. You do lose bearing spacing on the spindle, but you are light too????? I see a major advantage in mounting width also. The super duty style is only about 1" wider (back side of inner C to mounting flange) than a 44. The standard 60 stuff is close to three inches wider per side.

If they don't hold up you could get Dynatrac, Rockcrusher, or non super duty stock Ford knuckles. All will take you back to the regular spindle setup that has the bearings spaced further apart. Tera is using a new style Dodge knuckle with a bolt on spindle also. It appears that the balljoint 60 inner C's are common and the outters can be swapped.

I saw that Parts Mike is selling the inner C's for $190/pr. Since your runing 16's you could just go find any F-250/350 in the wrecking yard and pull the outer knuckles, bearings, brakes, etc. Have currie hog the bearing for 35 spline shafts (I think they said $40 each + 10 if you wanted a bearing to run lockouts), redrill the pattern, and have them machine it and put high steer arms on it ($250 ?).

Buuut I know your a weight monger so you could save a few pounds by using Currie's aluminum knuckle F-450 knuckle and willwoods. I've looked at it a little and it even seems possible to to fit the willwood calipers on the 250/350 knuckle. I haven't looked but I bet there is a kit with caliper brackets already available.

 

[Big Red]

Oh, and when I ran this same combination with 35's it was bulletproof.

Back down to 35's darn it. :laugh3:


Seriously, just about anything can break if you try...some easier than others.
I've been o.k. so far with running 37's, but I baby my rig and don't get on it when I've got the steering cranked or am stuck. I try to go back and try the line again or try a different line. I haven't need to use the winch yet on rock trails, only in the snow. I've also never broken a hub, axle shaft, control arms, etc. Just steering stuff and I know now why my heim joint was binding too much. Because I had a washer in there to stop the slight play. I now realize it needs this to survive, especially with big tires.

If there is a need for stronger outers for dana 44 (like there currently is), we should be seeing it. That or we'll be told to go to a dana 60, but in reality the aftermarket can build up narly stuff if there is a need eventhough going with a nearly stock dana 60 might be a better alternative. Not saying it totally is with the loss in ground clearance, weight, and other negatives. Just look at the dana 35, we now can get 30 spline axle alloy axle shafts as we can for the dana 30, eventhough a jump up to the bigger brother (dana 44) should be warranted.

The aftermarket has come along incredibly fast in a short period of time to respond to the bigger tires, tougher trails, etc. About 10 years ago, 33's were considered huge and people didn't go over 3-4" of lift, boy how we have changed wanting bigger and better and harder trails.

Troy

 

[Lincoln]

Back down to 35's darn it. :laugh3:


Seriously, just about anything can break if you try...some easier than others.
I've been o.k. so far with running 37's, but I baby my rig and don't get on it when I've got the steering cranked or am stuck. I try to go back and try the line again or try a different line. I haven't need to use the winch yet on rock trails, only in the snow. I've also never broken a hub, axle shaft, control arms, etc. Just steering stuff and I know now why my heim joint was binding too much. Because I had a washer in there to stop the slight play. I now realize it needs this to survive, especially with big tires.

If there is a need for stronger outers for dana 44 (like there currently is), we should be seeing it. That or we'll be told to go to a dana 60, but in reality the aftermarket can build up narly stuff if there is a need eventhough going with a nearly stock dana 60 might be a better alternative. Not saying it totally is with the loss in ground clearance, weight, and other negatives. Just look at the dana 35, we now can get 30 spline axle alloy axle shafts as we can for the dana 30, eventhough a jump up to the bigger brother (dana 44) should be warranted.

The aftermarket has come along incredibly fast in a short period of time to respond to the bigger tires, tougher trails, etc. About 10 years ago, 33's were considered huge and people didn't go over 3-4" of lift, boy how we have changed wanting bigger and better and harder trails.

Troy

Your missing the point of the thread. It's not a discussion if it's needed, it's how to do it and if it can be done relatively cheap.

 

[BrettM]

the Spidertrax setup looks great for a lightweight rig, and $800 doesn't seem too bad, anyone know if that includes the unit-bearing or brakes?

 

[Lincoln]

the Spidertrax setup looks great for a lightweight rig, and $800 doesn't seem too bad, anyone know if that includes the unit-bearing or brakes?

I'm pretty sure that is just the knuckles.

 

[Mr.OverKill]

it's how to do it and if it can be done relatively cheap.

My Cheap or Yours? Mine, and the answer is NO it cant be done cheap. on your budget?? who knows, i dont know your budget.:laugh3:

hope that helped LOL:laugh3:

 

[Lincoln]

My Cheap or Yours? Mine, and the answer is NO it cant be done cheap. on your budget?? who knows, i dont know your budget.:laugh3:

hope that helped LOL:laugh3:

Look at the range of prices. If you can build a good 60 for 3-4K that is cheap. Within my budget? Not right now or I would have had it built earlier this year.

Compare that to what it costs to build a good 44. It's reall easy to go right past $2K with it. Everyone is just spoiled anymore. I remember calling Moser about getting some shortened 9" Ford shafts. $500 for new stock shafts that had been replined. It's all cheap anymore.

 

[Lincoln]

Double posted?

 

[cracker]

I'm pretty sure that is just the knuckles.

Nope!

Estimated target price is right around $800 for a complete set of inner and outer knuckles (both sides)!

The possibiities look pretty good with this. High steer and all.

 

[Lincoln]

Cracker, what all do they provide? If your going to post you have to provide the detail.

 

[cracker]

Cracker, what all do they provide? If your going to post you have to provide the detail.

Shit biatch

Fine I will call them tomorrow.

I will try to give a 'detailed' report.

 

[cracker]

Well, I called SpiderTrax.

I must say they were very pleasant to speak to as well.

The knuckles (inner and outer) will be available sometime this year for $800 for both sides including the spherical bearings as a kit (with the built in high steer). They did not want to say exactly when they would be available but it would definitley be this year. Inner Cs will be set up for a 3" tube. The knuckles will allow for a 45 degree turning angle. The unit bearing is going to be the F450 unit bearing that will be available for $300/each BUT it could be set up with regular ford locking hubs. Can be drilled 8 x 6.5, 6 x 5.5, or 5 x 5.5. Spidertrax will be offering Willwood caliper and rotor sets for $500. For the Willwood set-up, the rims must be 17" BUT one may get the Ford calipers to mount if you were to make your own caliper mount and that may allow a 16" wheel. The outer stub shaft will be 35 spline as opposed to the OEM ford 33 spline (but you could use the cheaper Spicer 33 spline stubs if you want with the regular unit bearing).

As far as I can tell...

Knuckles and spherical bearings $800
Unit Bearings $600
Brakes $500

A very good possibility.