wavingpine11
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Central PA
Attention Deficit Disorder NOTE: I'm going to give a lot of details about my Jeep here to start out with, and some of them may not be relevant to the problem at hand. No one is forcing you to read this. If you don't want to be bothered to read the details, feel free to not comment on the issues I'm discussing. Otherwise, all thoughts and commentary are appreciated.
Background: About a month ago I posted in a resurrected thread where someone had asked how--many years after the thread had become inactive--how the OP's Aussie locker was holding up. I thought that was pretty funny and I responded that I loved mine, had been using it for years with no problems, but that recently (meaning winter of 2014-2015) I had started having problems with my rear axle and suspected the Aussie.
Here's a "brief" synopsis of those troubles. We had lots of snow up here in Clinton County, PA this year. Therefore, I did lots of snow wheeling since I now live in an area littered with awesome state forest trails, most of which are mundane in the fair weather months but which become quite interesting when you stack 12-15 inches of snow on them, especially when some of them also double as snowmobile trails (these are legally dual use trails in the winter, as an FYI for all those prepared to pounce!). Anyway, the snowmobiles pack the snow hard, but only barely one Jeep wide, so WHEN you fall off the hard pack, it's a challenge to get back on the trail again. No matter what, lots of wheel spin is involved on all the super snowy trails. It's rare to be able to dig down to dirt, so I'm just spinning wheels at various levels of snow depth, slowly paddling my way through the snow in many cases.
I started to notice a banging noise when I was spinning the tires, and it really seemed quite similar if not identical to the occasional banging noise the Aussie locker makes on hard pavement when it's trying to lock up in a turn that you're giving it gas through, except that by the time I pulled it off the road, it was happening almost constantly. I'm used to that noise and many others have also mentioned it's just something to get used to with autolockers. I mentioned my recent experience with excessive banging during wheelspin in the other thread, and that I suspected it may be the locker. But then when I pulled the diff cover, everything looked fine. Here is a quote of mine from the other thread:
"So I pulled the cover, and the center gap was fine at 0.163". The locker looks just about brand new, the springs look fine and there are no chips or broken teeth on the ring or pinion. All the u-joints on the front and rear drive shafts look fine with no obvious play. The oil was filthy, but other than that, it seems like everything is as it should be. The locker passes the function test also. Now I'm wondering if there really might be a problem with the transfer case. I do have a couple extras, but none of them are set up to just swap in and use the same drive shaft. I was hoping to crack the differential and just see an obvious problem. . . I think it might be time to post up in a separate thread.
At this point, for the record, I am not able to fault the locker yet. I think I need to do a little more investigation with an observer watching my tires when I spin them in the snow. That's when I get the most dysfunction."
I then watched some videos on youtube of XJ's with NP242 cases that had chain stretch/skipping issues and the noises coming out of them were very similar to mine. So it seemed like an "aha" moment and I ordered a new chain. Over the next couple of weeks I pulled the t-case and replaced the chain. The speed sensor bolt broke off so I drilled that out and heli-coiled the hole, so that is functional again. However, I noticed that the chain I pulled out was not very different in size from the new one that I put in. I know a little bit of stretch can equal serious cog slipping under tension from dealing with endless stretched mountain bike chains over the years, so I wasn't very concerned that I may not be addressing the real problem at that time.
Putting the Jeep back together got interesting since the tail pipe broke off cleanly in the exhaust pipe and various other things went wrong like the rear drive shaft grease had turned to super glue and required a come-along to pull it apart and regrease, but I got it put back together, put new gear oil in the rear and new ATF fluid in the transfer case, and took it out for a spin on pavement.
Unfortunately, I have not been able to get rid of the rear end noise or associated instability. On pavement, it is evident that when the slippage/popping/banging occurs, there is also a little bit of sideways wiggle that occurs. This brings me back to suspicion of the locker or at least the rear end. A friend of mine asked me if it might be the splines on the pinion, and then that made me think of the splines on the axle shafts as well. The dysfunction manifests more easily if the transfer case is in the 2wd position (I usually drive it in Full Time 4wd), which is pretty typical of the rear locker's road manners and a good part of the reason I drive it with full time engaged constantly. Keeping the torque split 50/50 all the time makes it easier to go around corners without all the loading up and banging back into place.
Vehicle Setup: This is a '98 XJ with the 242 transfer case. The 242 output shaft has been hacked and tapped to use a standard front drive shaft. The splines on this adaptation have been recently verified to be good. The rear axle is a '96 Chrysler 8.25 that came with 4.10's and 27 spline shafts. I upgraded to 29 spline carrier/shafts and added an Aussie locker to it several years ago. The axle shafts are stock. The front axle is the matching '96 Dana 30 which I pulled the carrier out of and put in an OX locker. I got the one with 30 splines at the case and run alloy shafts that have the stock spline count outers so I can run standard unit bearings, which I seem to go through a lot of. Except for the bearings and u-joints, I have never had any problems with this front end setup.
In the winter I typically run 31x10.5x15 BFG AT's on stock steel rims which I have more than a full set of studded ice chains for. The chains got used a lot this past winter. I run Alloy USA wheel spacers which allow the chains to fit without hitting the leaf spring retaining clips.
When the snow starts to melt, I put on a set of 33x10.5x15 BFG KM2's on stock aluminum teardrop wheels. I leave the wheel spacers on which works well with this tire size given the stock wheel backspacing. The banging problem instantly got worse with the larger, heavier tires. It was only after I put these tires on that I tried to fix the problem by inspecting the locker and changing out the transfer case chain.
The Jeep is lifted maybe 5 inches or so on RE springs, with some JKS spacers up front for the coils and one of those boxed setups that allow one to adjust their shackle angle and also get a little extra lift from on the leaf springs. I read about those on here but can't remember who made them. I run RE shocks appropriate to my lift height in the front but I run stock sized shocks in the back because I had to cut off the old shock mounts and I welded on aftermarket shock mounts high up on the rear axle and the size that now fits is the original stock size. I had a little sag in the rear springs and use shocks that have a coil spring on the outside of them to help with such problems and they actually leveled the Jeep out nicely while retaining good ride quality.
What now?: Well, now I will pull the rear axle shafts when I have the time to check the splines on them. I'll have to remove the otherwise perfect looking locker to do that. I will probably put in my No-Slip locker in when I put it back together just to see if that also suffers the same problem. If it doesn't, I'll have a quick answer even if I can't see a reason why the Aussie is malfunctioning. I'll also look into the possibility that the splines on the pinion are bad.
I know that the front DS u-joint is going bad. I'll replace that as soon as my new one arrives. That might be a week from now.
I also have a 231 transfer case that I upgraded with a PORC SYE and a Tera 2 Low kit that I removed a while ago because it started blowing ATF fluid out the rear seal and the new seal I put on didn't fix the leak. It also needs a new chain--actually needs one judging from the slap noise it makes when I wiggle the rear output. I have the chain and some new seals. I will be putting that in if I need to just as a known good reference point, function-wise.
In the meantime, I will be happy to hear what anyone here has to say. I'm a paying member here not because I get any special benefits from being one, but because this is where I learned how to deal with my aging Jeeps, and I've gained a lot of knowledge and useful ideas here. My honest appreciation is what makes me open my wallet for this organization. So I'm here at the reservoir of knowledge once again, this time with a problem that someone else must have had at some point, and maybe field some ideas that can help me get back out on the trails a little bit faster than I otherwise would have. I won't be doing any work on it until at least Monday the 13th, if then. I have another XJ in the garage that needs to have its radiator replaced before I have space to work on the '98. The radiator is almost out! I just need to find or rebuy the quick disconnect tools (of which I already have two sets somewhere--oh, well) I may be able to reply to any questions or ideas that come up on here before then, though.
Thanks in advance, as always, for your clever insights and ideas!
--wavingpine11
Background: About a month ago I posted in a resurrected thread where someone had asked how--many years after the thread had become inactive--how the OP's Aussie locker was holding up. I thought that was pretty funny and I responded that I loved mine, had been using it for years with no problems, but that recently (meaning winter of 2014-2015) I had started having problems with my rear axle and suspected the Aussie.
Here's a "brief" synopsis of those troubles. We had lots of snow up here in Clinton County, PA this year. Therefore, I did lots of snow wheeling since I now live in an area littered with awesome state forest trails, most of which are mundane in the fair weather months but which become quite interesting when you stack 12-15 inches of snow on them, especially when some of them also double as snowmobile trails (these are legally dual use trails in the winter, as an FYI for all those prepared to pounce!). Anyway, the snowmobiles pack the snow hard, but only barely one Jeep wide, so WHEN you fall off the hard pack, it's a challenge to get back on the trail again. No matter what, lots of wheel spin is involved on all the super snowy trails. It's rare to be able to dig down to dirt, so I'm just spinning wheels at various levels of snow depth, slowly paddling my way through the snow in many cases.
I started to notice a banging noise when I was spinning the tires, and it really seemed quite similar if not identical to the occasional banging noise the Aussie locker makes on hard pavement when it's trying to lock up in a turn that you're giving it gas through, except that by the time I pulled it off the road, it was happening almost constantly. I'm used to that noise and many others have also mentioned it's just something to get used to with autolockers. I mentioned my recent experience with excessive banging during wheelspin in the other thread, and that I suspected it may be the locker. But then when I pulled the diff cover, everything looked fine. Here is a quote of mine from the other thread:
"So I pulled the cover, and the center gap was fine at 0.163". The locker looks just about brand new, the springs look fine and there are no chips or broken teeth on the ring or pinion. All the u-joints on the front and rear drive shafts look fine with no obvious play. The oil was filthy, but other than that, it seems like everything is as it should be. The locker passes the function test also. Now I'm wondering if there really might be a problem with the transfer case. I do have a couple extras, but none of them are set up to just swap in and use the same drive shaft. I was hoping to crack the differential and just see an obvious problem. . . I think it might be time to post up in a separate thread.
At this point, for the record, I am not able to fault the locker yet. I think I need to do a little more investigation with an observer watching my tires when I spin them in the snow. That's when I get the most dysfunction."
I then watched some videos on youtube of XJ's with NP242 cases that had chain stretch/skipping issues and the noises coming out of them were very similar to mine. So it seemed like an "aha" moment and I ordered a new chain. Over the next couple of weeks I pulled the t-case and replaced the chain. The speed sensor bolt broke off so I drilled that out and heli-coiled the hole, so that is functional again. However, I noticed that the chain I pulled out was not very different in size from the new one that I put in. I know a little bit of stretch can equal serious cog slipping under tension from dealing with endless stretched mountain bike chains over the years, so I wasn't very concerned that I may not be addressing the real problem at that time.
Putting the Jeep back together got interesting since the tail pipe broke off cleanly in the exhaust pipe and various other things went wrong like the rear drive shaft grease had turned to super glue and required a come-along to pull it apart and regrease, but I got it put back together, put new gear oil in the rear and new ATF fluid in the transfer case, and took it out for a spin on pavement.
Unfortunately, I have not been able to get rid of the rear end noise or associated instability. On pavement, it is evident that when the slippage/popping/banging occurs, there is also a little bit of sideways wiggle that occurs. This brings me back to suspicion of the locker or at least the rear end. A friend of mine asked me if it might be the splines on the pinion, and then that made me think of the splines on the axle shafts as well. The dysfunction manifests more easily if the transfer case is in the 2wd position (I usually drive it in Full Time 4wd), which is pretty typical of the rear locker's road manners and a good part of the reason I drive it with full time engaged constantly. Keeping the torque split 50/50 all the time makes it easier to go around corners without all the loading up and banging back into place.
Vehicle Setup: This is a '98 XJ with the 242 transfer case. The 242 output shaft has been hacked and tapped to use a standard front drive shaft. The splines on this adaptation have been recently verified to be good. The rear axle is a '96 Chrysler 8.25 that came with 4.10's and 27 spline shafts. I upgraded to 29 spline carrier/shafts and added an Aussie locker to it several years ago. The axle shafts are stock. The front axle is the matching '96 Dana 30 which I pulled the carrier out of and put in an OX locker. I got the one with 30 splines at the case and run alloy shafts that have the stock spline count outers so I can run standard unit bearings, which I seem to go through a lot of. Except for the bearings and u-joints, I have never had any problems with this front end setup.
In the winter I typically run 31x10.5x15 BFG AT's on stock steel rims which I have more than a full set of studded ice chains for. The chains got used a lot this past winter. I run Alloy USA wheel spacers which allow the chains to fit without hitting the leaf spring retaining clips.
When the snow starts to melt, I put on a set of 33x10.5x15 BFG KM2's on stock aluminum teardrop wheels. I leave the wheel spacers on which works well with this tire size given the stock wheel backspacing. The banging problem instantly got worse with the larger, heavier tires. It was only after I put these tires on that I tried to fix the problem by inspecting the locker and changing out the transfer case chain.
The Jeep is lifted maybe 5 inches or so on RE springs, with some JKS spacers up front for the coils and one of those boxed setups that allow one to adjust their shackle angle and also get a little extra lift from on the leaf springs. I read about those on here but can't remember who made them. I run RE shocks appropriate to my lift height in the front but I run stock sized shocks in the back because I had to cut off the old shock mounts and I welded on aftermarket shock mounts high up on the rear axle and the size that now fits is the original stock size. I had a little sag in the rear springs and use shocks that have a coil spring on the outside of them to help with such problems and they actually leveled the Jeep out nicely while retaining good ride quality.
What now?: Well, now I will pull the rear axle shafts when I have the time to check the splines on them. I'll have to remove the otherwise perfect looking locker to do that. I will probably put in my No-Slip locker in when I put it back together just to see if that also suffers the same problem. If it doesn't, I'll have a quick answer even if I can't see a reason why the Aussie is malfunctioning. I'll also look into the possibility that the splines on the pinion are bad.
I know that the front DS u-joint is going bad. I'll replace that as soon as my new one arrives. That might be a week from now.
I also have a 231 transfer case that I upgraded with a PORC SYE and a Tera 2 Low kit that I removed a while ago because it started blowing ATF fluid out the rear seal and the new seal I put on didn't fix the leak. It also needs a new chain--actually needs one judging from the slap noise it makes when I wiggle the rear output. I have the chain and some new seals. I will be putting that in if I need to just as a known good reference point, function-wise.
In the meantime, I will be happy to hear what anyone here has to say. I'm a paying member here not because I get any special benefits from being one, but because this is where I learned how to deal with my aging Jeeps, and I've gained a lot of knowledge and useful ideas here. My honest appreciation is what makes me open my wallet for this organization. So I'm here at the reservoir of knowledge once again, this time with a problem that someone else must have had at some point, and maybe field some ideas that can help me get back out on the trails a little bit faster than I otherwise would have. I won't be doing any work on it until at least Monday the 13th, if then. I have another XJ in the garage that needs to have its radiator replaced before I have space to work on the '98. The radiator is almost out! I just need to find or rebuy the quick disconnect tools (of which I already have two sets somewhere--oh, well) I may be able to reply to any questions or ideas that come up on here before then, though.
Thanks in advance, as always, for your clever insights and ideas!
--wavingpine11
-ites, help me out and lay down some theories or suggestions! I have noticed I'm mostly talking to myself here and I apologize if my opening ADD comment put a sour taste in anyone's mouth. I was just asking for a decent read-through of my symptoms and situation before suggestions were thrown out. Even if no one sees fit to engage with me on this topic I will still follow through with an account of my eventual resolution anyway, in the event that the information will be useful to anyone else in the future. 
