Is the a cheap way to get there from here?

[Lincoln]

Bigwoody bringing out more opinions in me.

If you going to go the aftermarket knuckle route why bother with buying a Ford 60 to cut up. Most people are paying about $1k for a Ford 60 then only using the center section and tubes. Might as well get a Rock Crusher or Tera center section which are running around 600-800 and have it tubed. You don't end up with that much more money involved.

Also for those thinking of this it will probably be easier to start with on of the 3" tube 44's (cast mount Fords) and have the thing tubed. Then the seal size can be cut to fit. Guess why Lockwood couldn't talk me out of that housing. Thoughts are thick and money grows on trees. You want to play hard it isn't going to be cheap.

Alright who's called on this:
http://www.sunrayengineering.com/1550.html

No CTM's needed and I don't think you will break them with 35's.

 

[Goatman]

why hybrid? They just seem to cost way too much $$$ when i looked into it. I went with an HP60 from a ford, converted to 5 lug, added dedenbears,chromo inner and outters with 35 spline outters. problem solved. Haved broken anything since upgrading to all this and have been running 39" krawlers. The price was high , around 5k by the time the dust cleared. I like it being full width and the only reason I converted it to 5 lug was to match my 9" rear. I went the "throwing all kinds of $$$ at a 44" route to start. But quickly realized with 38 SX's it wouldn't stay together. I had more problems than just outters, I ripped all the teeth off a side gear in the ARB and tore the knuckle off the axle a few times by breaking ball joints. I will also say stock 30 spline 60 outters are no better than chromo 44 outters. If you're going to get a 60 spent the extra cash on 35 spline.

Why hybrid? Good question. HP60's are getting nearly impossible to find. Us west coast guys are real sensitive to ground clearance. Running the big dry rocks position and clearance are everything, and there's plenty of guys with high clearance aftermarket 60's and 9's. IF it will hold together, a hybrid has a lot to offer. I guess if a hybrid is really worth it, the safe way to go is with a 9" housing.....light, strong, and high clearance, both housing and driveline. If I was running a stock 60 centersection, in the stuff we run 40's would have to be the minimum tire size.

 

[Jeff 98XJ WI]

Just because everyone thinks the seal is an issue. I found this candidate after 5 minutes of searching. It would take more measurments and checking to make sure it would work but there are bunches in this size range. I'll let you boys figure it out.

I'm not sure what people use for the 9" inner axle seals although I think Paul said Currie glues something in the tube that accepts a seal. As for the 44, I read a pirate thread where a guy used whatever seal he could find that fit the shaft and had a smaller OD than the D44 seal pocket ID. He then turned a small spacer that fit between the seal OD and the seal pocket ID. However I purchased a seal that Brett mentioned on here awhile back that fits both the D44 Tube ID and stock 35 spline D60 shafts. I've got pics of the seal on the shaft here:

http://share.shutterfly.com/action/welcome?sid=8IbtGzVo3bMZ2

I've also test fit the seal in a D44 housing with a nice tight fit. That's what I'm going to use on my HP D44 with D60 outers and 35 spline shafts. It's double lip and I see no reason why it won't work. I might cut down a D60 seal and install the Bell portion ahead of the custom seal too so I'll have a shaft guide. As for the axle build, I think I'm going to have the stock 60 shafts cut down and resplined. I might try running the stock 30 spline outers at first too. Custom alloy shafts and 35spline outers can come later. Jeff

 

[Lincoln]

Another tidbit I forgot to mention.

With a hybrid the stock 1310 u-joints are the week link. Step those up to 1350's and the pinion does it.

If your planning on 40's I would not use a 44. A 9" would hold but your hitting the limit of that pinion with low gears and traction.

Thanks jeff I'll have to cross that one and look at it. The one I posted would be a slight press into the stock housing (stock 44 is 2.625 OD) and that seal provides about .015" fit on shaft.

 

[Jeff 98XJ WI]

I'm not sure what people use for the 9" inner axle seals although I think Paul said Currie glues something in the tube that accepts a seal. As for the 44, I read a pirate thread where a guy used whatever seal he could find that fit the shaft and had a smaller OD than the D44 seal pocket ID. He then turned a small spacer that fit between the seal OD and the seal pocket ID. However I purchased a seal that Brett mentioned on here awhile back that fits both the D44 Tube ID and stock 35 spline D60 shafts. I've got pics of the seal on the shaft here:

http://share.shutterfly.com/action/welcome?sid=8IbtGzVo3bMZ2

I've also test fit the seal in a D44 housing with a nice tight fit. That's what I'm going to use on my HP D44 with D60 outers and 35 spline shafts. It's double lip and I see no reason why it won't work. I might cut down a D60 seal and install the Bell portion ahead of the custom seal too so I'll have a shaft guide. As for the axle build, I think I'm going to have the stock 60 shafts cut down and resplined. I might try running the stock 30 spline outers at first too. Custom alloy shafts and 35spline outers can come later. Jeff

Well, I was just out in the garage stinking it up by grinding the lip off a stock D60 inner seal and found out the inside of the bell is damn near the same size as the inside of the axle housing tube. So, there's no sense in putting in a bell as the ID of the tube (2.75" OD x 0.5" wall) already gets the axle shaft close enough to the center of the seal. Also, for the first time, I just tried slipping a stock '89 Dana 60 35 spline shaft into the '75 D44 tube and it is TIGHT!! I mean there is a little room, but the main meat of the shaft is QUITE close to the ID of the housing tube! If the damn camera batteries worked, I would take some pictures. Jeff

 

[Lincoln]

WAlso, for the first time, I just tried slipping a stock '89 Dana 60 35 spline shaft into the '75 D44 tube and it is TIGHT!! I mean there is a little room, but the main meat of the shaft is QUITE close to the ID of the housing tube! If the damn camera batteries worked, I would take some pictures. Jeff

Well duh.

What I was worried about with the small tube 44 is where the shaft swells to meet the yoke. You might have to chamfer the edge on the outter end of the tube.

Now get to work. We want to see results by tomorrow.

 

[mikecooper]

Screw the sunaray 1550 get the 1610 Read this thread http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=439908&highlight=sunray+1610

PS Lance is an awesome guy, nice as hell and you cant ever go wrong with him.

This was posted by Duane on my local forum:


Quote:
Originally Posted by donpryor
Cost: Unless things have changed the SUNRAY hits harder than Dynatrac at the wallet...which reinforces the old axe 'you pay for what you get'.

WRONG; something must have changed since you last checked.

I called Dynatrac to get a price quote on a 35-spline rear D60 setup for a TJ, with disc brakes, e-brake lines, 4.56 gears, Detroit locker, chromoly shafts, and dual drilled 5-on-4.5/5-on-5.5 shafts. They gave me TWO prices, one for their 'Trail Series 60' axle and another for their 'Pro Rock 60' axle.

Then I called Sunray and got a price quote on a 35-spline rear 9" setup for a TJ, with disc brakes, e-brake lines, 4.56 gears, Detroit locker, chromoly shafts, and dual drilled 5-on-4.5/5-on-5.5 shafts. The Sunray price was a bit under $1000 less than the Dynatrac 'Trail Series' 60, and was nearly $2000 less than the Dynatrac 'Pro Rock 60' axle.

I then called Teraflex for D60 prices, as well as Mad4WD for Rockcrusher prices, and of course Currie for both D60 and 9" prices (and I spec'ed everything as close to the same as possible). All the other vendors were priced pretty much in line with Dynatrack. The *NEAREST* price to Sunray was still over $800 more.

The Sunray axle was LIGHTER, had MORE GROUND CLEARANCE, and COSTS LESS than Dynatrac or any other comparable axle, PLUS I got to order it at a custom width for no extra charge (since the whole thing is custom anyways). So with all that going for it, I ordered a Sunray.

And when I (eventually) buy a front axle, I'll call them again!

I know that he was talking about a rear axle but when it comes to price and even being custom you will never be able to beat a sunray front

 

[Goatman]

Here's some more figures.

Building an axle from scratch, the parts knuckle out king pin (both sides) including arms, HD knuckles, 5 on 5.5 hubs, 1/2 ton brakes, spindles, lockouts, and misc parts is about $2300.

Currie ball joint F450 knuckle out complete both sides, with arms, 5 on 5.5, and Wilwood 12.5" brakes is also $2300. I don't know if those brakes will fit an alloy 15" rim.

So, whether ball joint or king pin, knuckle out with new parts is $2300 not counting axles.

 

[Lincoln]

I believe they use the 450 knuckles to get the ability to use the wilwoods and 15" wheels. When I talked to Currie they told me the knuckles were the same between the 250/350 version and the 450 except for the caliper mounts. To use their mounts the 450 knuckles were required.

 

[Lincoln]

Screw the sunaray 1550.... blah blah blah

Thanks for the link and the info. I've been curious and have been to lazy to do the research. I got the 1550 and 1610 confused.

 

[XJ_ranger]

so it seems the short answer to the topic of the thread is:

no otherwise everyone would be doing it...

 

[Lincoln]

I consider $3K-4K cheap anymore. Figure what it costs to build a regular D44.

 

[XJ_ranger]

I consider $3K-4K cheap anymore. Figure what it costs to build a regular D44.

im still adding that one up

 

[SeanP]

Coil buckets? I don't need no stinkin' coil buckets! That's what those Racerunners I have sitting in the garage are for.

QUOTE]

while I like my bling coilovers-into-the-engine-compartment, the whole reason I went to CO's was because I couldn't fit the coil buckets, track bar and hi-steer tie rod into the same physical space (damn those laws of physics).

I still have the D60 30 spline outers and spicer ujoints. I have a full set of spare assys. and spare hubs so we'll see how those hold up. So far, everything has been holding up well in the garage

SeanP

 

[SeanP]

Hopefully this isn't too inappropriate: This is a gratuitous pimp for my friend Dean Reed. Dean has been heavily involved in making lots of cool stuff for our sport. He invested into the tooling to cut splines and is making custom cromo shafts (sources blanks from the same place Dutchman does). He also makes Rockequipment's air shocks and airbump stops and does the recentered hummer double beadlocks. Finally, for whatever custom housings y'all are looking at (44/60, 9"60, 9"/14b), he can build it and is a perfectionist when it comes to tolerances/finished product.

http://www.performancecryogenics.com/contact.html

 

[Jeff 98XJ WI]

Well duh.

What I was worried about with the small tube 44 is where the shaft swells to meet the yoke. You might have to chamfer the edge on the outter end of the tube.

Now get to work. We want to see results by tomorrow.

Well, there's not much I can do at this point because I am waiting on other stuff. However, I did take some more pictures of the 60 shaft in the 44 tube and a few of the special seal. View them here:

http://share.shutterfly.com/action/welcome?sid=8IbtGzVo3bMa6

Oh yeah, my cheapie ruler tells me the stock 60 shafts are 1.46" just before the yoke, 1.587" in the main body, 1.56" in the seal area, 1.44" just before the splines, and 1.47" across the splines. Jeff

 

[Lincoln]

Hopefully this isn't too inappropriate: This is a gratuitous pimp for my friend Dean Reed. Dean has been heavily involved in making lots of cool stuff for our sport. He invested into the tooling to cut splines and is making custom cromo shafts (sources blanks from the same place Dutchman does). He also makes Rockequipment's air shocks and airbump stops and does the recentered hummer double beadlocks. Finally, for whatever custom housings y'all are looking at (44/60, 9"60, 9"/14b), he can build it and is a perfectionist when it comes to tolerances/finished product.

http://www.performancecryogenics.com/contact.html

I refuse to use a cryogenics place that doesn't do dead people.

 

[Lincoln]

Well, there's not much I can do at this point because I am waiting on other stuff. However, I did take some more pictures of the 60 shaft in the 44 tube and a few of the special seal. View them here:

http://share.shutterfly.com/action/welcome?sid=8IbtGzVo3bMa6

Oh yeah, my cheapie ruler tells me the stock 60 shafts are 1.46" just before the yoke, 1.587" in the main body, 1.56" in the seal area, 1.44" just before the splines, and 1.47" across the splines. Jeff

Thanks for the meausrements. I have been meaning to get those into the collection. One of these days I should write them down.

why aren't the knuckles welded on yet? You had all day yesterday and someone has to make up for my lack of productivity.

 

[Jeff 98XJ WI]

Thanks for the meausrements. I have been meaning to get those into the collection. One of these days I should write them down.

why aren't the knuckles welded on yet? You had all day yesterday and someone has to make up for my lack of productivity.

The knuckles have been at a friends since October. I'm guessing that they are sitting on a shelf in his garage in the same shape they were when I passed them on. They've still got a chunk of the 60 housing tube in them and he is supposed to open them up for a press fit on the 44 shafts. I may have to make other arrangements. Jeff

 

[FarmerMatt]

Sean,
Since you don't use that front end much... Ever think about time sharing it?