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A different cage

Zebaru said:
The boatside is all roughed in on the passenger side now. The inside and outside are plated with 18Ga, and the outside will eventually get a layer of 1/2" (or more...) UHMW that will (hopefully) provide some real protection.

boatside01.JPG

boatside02.JPG


The steering was creating some clearance issues, and I was faced with limiting uptravel about 2", but since I am stock height, that only leaves a couple inches, and that just isn’t acceptable. I was going to just lift it a bit to make up for the difference, but I decided instead to just go ahead and notch the frame on the passenger side to allow room for the drag link. I think I might have to adjust the bumpstop just a hair to make sure the drag link stays out of the oil pan on compression.

framenotch01.JPG


The tie rod is going to have to go under the steering arm on the driver side to avoid the track bar and mount. I tried everything I could to avoid this, but there is just no way I can put it on top without a serious decrease in uptravel. Again, I could have lifted and or bumpstopped, but this should be okay, and I can always raise it later if I really want to. In fact, my double shear mount is going to be setup to handle both positions, so if I eventually lift it, I won't have to deal with that.

The track bar is raised four or so inches and shortened just a bit, but I did my best to keep it as long as possible. It is still shorter than the drag link, but it is close. At ride height, the angles look pretty good, so I hope I won’t have any problems. The frame mount is a stock mount modified to take a stock bushing in double shear. It is kept as high as possible, and as tight to the axle as I could to avoid interfering with the tie rod. The axle mount is a piece of 2x4x0.188, which seems to be the perfect inside width for a stock bushing. I am using a rod end however, because it was the easiest way to have adjustability. A lot of folks complain about longevity on the rod ends, but I only put a couple thousand miles on my jeep as it is, so even if I need to replace it every 5k that would be a couple years... And it is easy enough to carry a spare...

steering02.JPG


As I mentioned in another thread on the crossmember, I rotated the transfer case up by re-drilling the transmission. This worked great, and allowed me to run a basically flat belly. I did have to hack the floor to get the case to fit up there, and I also had to beat the floor back pretty good to make room for the driveshaft. The shifter looks like it is going to work just fine however. Given how the seat fits fine with the raised t-case hump, and the big dent in the floor doesnt really interfere with anything, I kinda wonder why Jeep didn't do this stock. A couple inches of clearance for basically free...

The gas tank is in for the most part, and I managed to reuse the stock straps to mount it. I just put some pieces of pipe longitudinally under the ribs, and then moved the straps up and over the tank. I used a new rear crossmember for a rear attachment point, and some tabs up front for the other end. The result should be as strong as stock, or better since the straps are not having to hold the weight of the tank (unless I roll...). On the plus side, I dont have to deal with a gas tank skid, but I did lose any chance of having rear seats. Oh well, my cage design didn't really work for rear seats anyway...

A lot more to do. I have to finish the rear fenders, do the entire driver side sheet metal work, plumb the gas tank, re-plumb the transmission cooler lines, rewire the battery to go behind the passenger seat, finish up the cage details like door bars and a few gussets, install the seat harnesses, fab up shock mounts and get shocks, finish up the front/rear bumpers (though that might wait), complete the t-case skid, maybe come up with a tranny skid, and some other things here and there.

I originally thought I would be done by now, but now I am just hoping to have it ready for Sierra Fest...

More updates as they come.

Travis
all red X's
 
Hmm... Looks like the site I have the pictures hosted with is having some issues. Hopefully it will be back up soon... If not, I will figure something out and get the pictures back up.

Travis
 
Why are you using a curved trackbar, seems like it could be straight? I don't see it doing much for you. Also looks like your going to have some bumsteer. Tie rod and track bar arn't really parallel.
 
Unique, but why all the work to stay at stock height?

Looks to me like you might have issues with the draglink and oil pan at full stuff and the wheels turned hard left (driver's side).
 
Weasel said:
Why are you using a curved trackbar, seems like it could be straight? I don't see it doing much for you. Also looks like your going to have some bumsteer. Tie rod and track bar arn't really parallel

The pictures dont show it well I guess. The bend by the diff is there because without it, it would be in the diff. Much like a stock trackbar, on full compression, the bar actually goes in front of the cover. I could not move it forward because it would interfere with the tie rod then. The second bend is to clear the oil pan. Now that I look at it, I probably would have been able to get by wihtout the oil pan bend, but its too late now.

I don't know about the bumpsteer. They are pretty close to parallel and the same length. If it is too bad, I can get some different width misalignment spacers for the pitman arm end of the drag link maybe.

Capt. Nemo said:
Unique, but why all the work to stay at stock height?

Looks to me like you might have issues with the draglink and oil pan at full stuff and the wheels turned hard left (driver's side).

Some of the reason keeping it at stock height was to keep my CG low - but I know I am giving up some ground clearance and maybe ultimately performance. Maybe I won't be happy with the compromise, I don't know. I think the biggest reason I kept it stock however, was just to see if I could pull it off.

Then again, the only 'extra' work I have had to do to keep it stock height is the steering and track bar. And although I spent alot of time on them, they are really easy to change if I decide that I am too low. If the axle had not already been setup with the raised steering, I probalby would have just run stock style steering, and some sort of regular off the shelf aftermarket track bar.

As far as the oil pan goes, I have compressed the passenger side as far as I can statically, and the drag link just kisses the oil pan. I am not sure how much more give there is in the bumpstops, so I might have to put a 1/2" bumpstop on that side just to make sure.

Maybe this thing won't work well off road when I am all done, I dont know. But I figure that at the very least I will have a good solid 'core' to build off if big changes do need to be made.

Travis
 
Couple of easy stupid questions.

What type of tube bender are you using?
Are you notching the tubes...if so, with what?
What size tube is being used?

I read through most of the 6 pages and the work looks great. I'm trying to decide on if I should tie an internal cage to an exocage or leave them separate. So mostly doing research right now.
 
Bouncy said:
Couple of easy stupid questions.

What type of tube bender are you using?
Are you notching the tubes...if so, with what?
What size tube is being used?

I read through most of the 6 pages and the work looks great. I'm trying to decide on if I should tie an internal cage to an exocage or leave them separate. So mostly doing research right now.

JD2 manual bender
cheapo Harbor Freight notcher
2" .120wall HREW

The bender works great, but being manual and me bending big tube, it can be a bit of a workout rowing the handle.

The HF notcher works okay, but not great. Alot of the notches are a little off to one side or the other, but by the time I clean them up with a grinder, it isn't really a problem. I think I only paid like $40 for the thing, and have made hundreds of notches over the years, so I figure it has been worth it.

I actually have used a bit of 0.095 wall for internal tubing that shouldn't see any rock contact. I thought I could keep weight down, but in the end I probably saved like twenty pounds or something, so it probably wasn't worth it.

I debated doing an internal or external cage, and somehow came up with this, which is a combination of both really. Hopefully it works well...

Travis
 
Zebaru said:
JD2 manual bender
cheapo Harbor Freight notcher
2" .120wall HREW

The bender works great, but being manual and me bending big tube, it can be a bit of a workout rowing the handle.

The HF notcher works okay, but not great. Alot of the notches are a little off to one side or the other, but by the time I clean them up with a grinder, it isn't really a problem. I think I only paid like $40 for the thing, and have made hundreds of notches over the years, so I figure it has been worth it.

I actually have used a bit of 0.095 wall for internal tubing that shouldn't see any rock contact. I thought I could keep weight down, but in the end I probably saved like twenty pounds or something, so it probably wasn't worth it.

I debated doing an internal or external cage, and somehow came up with this, which is a combination of both really. Hopefully it works well...

Travis


Thanks for the info..And the cage looks great.
 
madmax said:
i like the hell out of it
just one thing and may i did not read enought but why the stock front end

eather way it looks bad ass

You mean stock suspension? Mostly just because I could (or wanted to see if I could). Since I am running 33's, the D30/D44 combo makes sense, and with a D30, keeping things stock made it a bunch easier. With no lift, I dont have to wory about poor geometry and the like.

If I ever decide to go above 33's, I will be getting a new front end, and with that I almost certainly will go to something other than a stock type setup. Probably some type of 3 link like all the west coast guys seem to favor.

Travis
 
It has been a long time since I updated this thread. The rig is basically done now, so I figure I might as well fill in the blanks for anyone searching through in the future.

I started off running no lift, and spent too much time on the frame for my tastes.

2862.jpg


So I scrounged the junkyards and found a 3" Rusty's lift that I tweaked a little to get the height I wanted. Everything about it seemed better with a little lift. I didn't notice any lack of stability, and the increase in clearance and flex was very obvious. On the Rubicon...

2928.jpg


The boatsides work like a charm, I have taken the rig on Barrett, Rubicon, and some local trails, and these things really do the trick on pinch type obstacles. I have as much rocker clearance as a rig with 7-8" of lift, and the smooth plastic sides allow me to slip past rocks with alot less effort. I am not sure I would do this mod to a rig that was in good shape to begin with, but for anything destined to be trail only, or currently thrashed rockers, it is well worth the hassle.

All that is left is some body work to clean it up. I have the passenger side basically done, and will be doing the same to the drivers side. The back door skin is held on by five or six bolts, and should be easy enough to take off for those trails that dictate it.

passside.JPG


I'm glad I tried this, even though I had no idea how it would turn out. Overall, it has worked well, and feels very solid on the trails. Not sure how it would fare in really nasty stuff, but for the trails I typically run, it gets the job done. I have put about 600 highway miles on it as well, mostly running to and from trails, and it has decent road manners. I was a little worried with the unbalanced beadlock wheels, but it isn't really that bad. All up I have averaged about 15MPG (highway and trail combined) and see almost 20 on the highway.
 
So you have an aw-4 and you redrilled it to clock up the t-case?? I wonder if this can be done on the ax-15 as well. My brother needs the clearance as does his friend. Do you have any pics of this process??-----------Kyle
 
That last pic is interesting. Is the "rear door" just a skin? It's got me all :confused1: with the tubing running through it.
 
offroadman83 said:
So you have an aw-4 and you redrilled it to clock up the t-case?? I wonder if this can be done on the ax-15 as well. My brother needs the clearance as does his friend. Do you have any pics of this process??-----------Kyle

Sorry, no pics, and I have no idea about an ax-15, but on the AW4, it was really easy. So easy in fact that I did it without reading about it first or anything. Just looking at the back of the tranny convinvced me it would work.

The adapter on the back of the AW4 is easily removable, and there is about an inch of clean flat space clockwise of all the bolt holes (like it was designed for multiple clocking angles).

I simply took that adapter off, scribed some new hole markings, center punched them, and drilled them out on the drill press... I am not sure I would have tried it with the tranny on the rig, but I am sure it could be done.

The t-case shifter fit fine, but doesn't shift as smoothly as before. Perhaps with some adjustment, that would be fixed. As it is, it works, so I have not taken any time to do anything about it.

Also, with as far as I rotated the case, I had to really hack into the floor for clearance, both for the case itself, and the driveshaft. More lift might resolve the driveshaft issue, but raising the case an inch is just like lifting an inch, so you will end up with driveshaft bind sooner...
 
karstic said:
That last pic is interesting. Is the "rear door" just a skin? It's got me all :confused1: with the tubing running through it.

Yeah, just a skin. The upper rear glass channel part is welded to the cage, and the rest bolts in here and there - you can see the shiny bolt heads in the picture. Intersting part is that the handle actually spans the gap, and is connected to the skin on one side and the body on the other. It adds and interesting touch, but is completely useless. If I was a little more clever, I would have found a way to get it to do something.
 
I HATE YOU
My first cage was a 3 pointer. Took me 5 weeks to install and broke WITHOUT rolling.
But yours is the wrong color so there.:)
 
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