wife wants a hand gun

[Kejtar]

Kej, I don't jump to conclusions and I wasn't talking about you. I use to hang out in Blue Bead Arms co and go to gun shows with them. It was an endless parade of kooks who genuinly belive we are going to have a revolution. I remember Amy was talking about it to a potential buyer and agreeing on the need to stock up before the Clintons take all the guns. Amys husband Preston was the kook lawer that almost shot me by accident. I questioned her later and she laughed about all the money she made because of the hype,misinformation and general stupidity of the majority of her customers. I'm glad you help the good ones but when I sat behind the table at gun shows I saw few. Most were gun freak rednecks that could rant all of their god given rights to own fire arms. I'm not talking about a common sence 2 or 3 gun owner's I'm talking about the idiots that are twisted like the bus driver. You go to gun shows. Talk to the average folks. They are redneck twisted misfits that are way to into guns to define reason. Of course you won't admitt they are twisted because you are associated with them on some level. Just like you won't admit Europe is a nasty cesspool full of miserable people. Gun shows arnt all bad and neither is Europe but the majority are not so hot. I think Amy is selling wholesale ammo now but look her up and ask her about the customers she had when she sold guns. This is all I could find.
http://www.hannibal.net/stories/120198/gunlaws.html
Part of the reson I stand up to you gun freaks is because it's so dam easy to get your pantys all twisted. I have 5 assualt guns and a pile of hand guns to play with because I like them as toys. You guys take them and your god given right to own them so dam personal. Why? You already have the constitution on your side yet you get so worked up when their need gets questioned. Whats to fear?

You know what scares me?? Honestly??? People like you owning firearms....

 

[Stumpalump]

You know what scares me?? Honestly??? People like you owning firearms....

Dang Kej I knew that was coming but I realy wanted a serious answer!

 

[RichP]

Well, most of the guns shows I've been to around the north east draw about the same crowd and type of people as the fleamarkets do. About the only gun shows I go to are specifically to buy powder and other reloading stuff and save on the godawfulshippingfees. I generally don't shop at flea markets either.

 

[sjkimmel99]

If it's for high desert country living have you considered a long gun for home defense? A shorty AR of some sort might work.

 

[Kejtar]

If it's for high desert country living have you considered a long gun for home defense? A shorty AR of some sort might work.

For home defense long gun should be considered to be a secondary choice as well... inside the confines of the home the long gun is not too practical. Now if you want to defend the perimiter around the house.. then claymores and an AR would be my choice (ok I'm joking about the claymores)

 

[Ray H]

For home defense long gun should be considered to be a secondary choice as well... inside the confines of the home the long gun is not too practical. Now if you want to defend the perimiter around the house.. then claymores and an AR would be my choice (ok I'm joking about the claymores)

For in home defense, you just cant beat a sawed off 12 gauge. You can fire it while still half asleep and cut down multiple intruders at the same time and still not penetrate a wall. Its a handheld Claymore

 

[Kejtar]

For in home defense, you just cant beat a sawed off 12 guage. You can fire it while still half asleep and cut down multiple intruders at the same time and still not penetrate a wall. Its a handheld Claymore

LOL well it's definately a good choice. Also from one perspective the sound of a round being chambered in a 12 guage is a deterrent by itself (though it does give away your position which is not good in certain situations). Downside again is the length of a barrel and the sawed off thing does not really fly by the doj and atf folks

 

[fiyerbirdie]

One more thought on the protection of your family. I'd rather be shot than sprayed again with OC spray (military term for pepper spray.) Honestly that might be the worst 2 days of my life, yes TWO days. Due to circumstances of training I reactivated it and the burn lived on. Now a perp CAN fight through it and still do harm to you or your loved ones.... but that guy would have to be dead set on harming you. I'm not saying do or do not buy a gun I own many and I'm a damn Marine that plays with guns for a living. I AM saying DO buy some nasty full strength pepperspray. Do it. Do it. That shit is no joke. We had Marines that have been shot (7.62 AK-47) and sprayed and said that being sprayed was way worse. It would be easy for her to carry in her purse also.

Edit.... 10% stuff is the good stuff!! mk4 is a good "big" can, bigger than the keychain ones.... but I still have nightmares about it.

 

[Ray H]

Downside again is the length of a barrel and the sawed off thing does not really fly by the doj and atf folks

I forget what the minimum barrel length is around here. I think its 20" or 22". with a pistal grip and a 20" barrel, thats not too unwieldy in a house.

EDIT: Real quick search, Wikipedia says the federal minimum is 18" barrel and 26" overall. It also says that the minimum barrel length only applies to "shotguns" and the government defines a shotgun as a shoulder fired weapon, so, a gun with a manufactured pistol grip wouldnt even fall under the barrel length/overall length law.

Another interesting thing on Wikipedia, It says that in countries where handguns are illegal to own, sawed off shotguns are the choice weapon of criminals. Hmmmm, Go figure.

 

[Kejtar]

One more thought on the protection of your family. I'd rather be shot than sprayed again with OC spray (military term for pepper spray.) Honestly that might be the worst 2 days of my life, yes TWO days. Due to circumstances of training I reactivated it and the burn lived on. Now a perp CAN fight through it and still do harm to you or your loved ones.... but that guy would have to be dead set on harming you. I'm not saying do or do not buy a gun I own many and I'm a damn Marine that plays with guns for a living. I AM saying DO buy some nasty full strength pepperspray. Do it. Do it. That shit is no joke. We had Marines that have been shot (7.62 AK-47) and sprayed and said that being sprayed was way worse. It would be easy for her to carry in her purse also.

Edit.... 10% stuff is the good stuff!! mk4 is a good "big" can, bigger than the keychain ones.... but I still have nightmares about it.

Well.. here's a story for you: have a buddy who lives in NV. He gets home to his roommate standing in a corner with busted glasses, his living room being trashed and his neighbour wrestling with 4 cops. Oh yeah and the cops were no small cops either. The neighbour got high on speed (or something similar) and chemical agents did not work.

 

[Gerr]

Well.. here's a story for you: have a buddy who lives in NV. He gets home to his roommate standing in a corner with busted glasses, his living room being trashed and his neighbour wrestling with 4 cops. Oh yeah and the cops were no small cops either. The neighbour got high on speed (or something similar) and chemical agents did not work.

I saw peper spray not even phase a guy on meth a few years ago(long story involving my mom a bar and her boyfriend) Id never consider it as home defense but it sure will ruin a normal persons day as my mom and my self got hit with some of the over spray.

 

[Ray H]

Ive been maced, peppered and CSed. I honestly dont think any of them would stop me if I wanted to hurt someone or were fighting for my life. Uncomfortable, Yes. They definately cut down on your ability for fight or flight by disturbing your respiration and vision, but they arent debilitating.
Maybe some people react to it differently. Its been a few years, maybe they make better stuff now.

 

[5-90]

I forget what the minimum barrel length is around here. I think its 20" or 22". with a pistal grip and a 20" barrel, thats not too unwieldy in a house.

EDIT: Real quick search, Wikipedia says the federal minimum is 18" barrel and 26" overall. It also says that the minimum barrel length only applies to "shotguns" and the government defines a shotgun as a shoulder fired weapon, so, a gun with a manufactured pistol grip wouldnt even fall under the barrel length/overall length law.

Another interesting thing on Wikipedia, It says that in countries where handguns are illegal to own, sawed off shotguns are the choice weapon of criminals. Hmmmm, Go figure.

Minima (federal) for the shotgun is 18"/28"OAL, and for rifles it's 16"/26" OAL. A "shotgun" is a longarm with a smoothbore barrel that is designed to fire multiple pellets in a single cartridge (as I recall.)

So, you can do the pistol grip thing and still be legal - as long as you've got at least 18" of barrel and 28" of gun overall.

A "sawn-off" shotgun is classified as an "Any Other Weapon" by F Troop, subject to a transfer tax (I think it's still $5,) and you have to be pre-approved by ATF and your local Chief Law Enforcement Officer having jurisdiction (Chief of Police, County Sheriff, and I think some judicial officials can be acceptable substitutes.) That will allow you to get past the minima.

Your typical home defense shotgun has 18.5" of barrel, and you can get that with a full length magazine tube (getting you something like seven or eight rounds.) I suggest #4 buckshot in a 2-3/4" shell - the pellets are fairly small. Not so small as to be useless - they're big enough to do damage - but you don't have to worry so much about secondary penetration and you'll still get a decent spread.

If you want "deterrent" value, make your first shot #12 birdshot (affectionately known as "dust" - some ungodly number of pellets to the ounce, and about as fine as sand) and your followup shots are #4 buck. #12 bird can still kill - but it's got incredible deterrent value (ever been in a sandstorm? This is worse, I'd think...) and "firing a shot across their nose" or "firing in the air as a warning" is stupid. #12 is probably the closest thing I can think of to a readily available substitute for "non-lethal" force, without having to dig up beanbag rounds, rubber baton shells, bolo shells, or sting balls (give me some time and ask nicely, and I can probably find a source for those anyhow, with a little digging.)

For home defence, even if you do find "less lethal" rounds, load only one or two of them - and the rest are full-power killing loads. If you're squeamish about killing, that gives you a comfortable buffer - and it's probably easier to defend in court.

If you manage to repel boarders using sting balls, et al, it is important to remember to not give chase! Once the enemy is in full retreat, the threat to your person/family/home is effectively and legally neutralised, and killing someone after that point ceases to be self defence and becomes "unlawful homicide."

N.B. If you're in an area known to have gang activity, or near such an area, I'd suggest you steel yourself to the idea that you may have to kill someone someday and skip the "less lethal" option. Gang kids can be difficult about "retribution" if you successfully repel boarders, and you may as well just whack them. If nothing else, you'll be thinning their numbers - which is a public service anyhow, y'ask me...

 

[fiyerbirdie]

mace and cs are childs play, OC is OC, there are different concentrates and I think that is why people often have the "didn't work on me, or cops couldn't take him down" Surely some people have been hopped up on enough drugs to withstand chemical sprays..... but people have been shot multiple times and continued on because of drugs.

I tell you this: out of 160 Marines. No one took 10% OC without being severly affected.

Also spraying a chemical spray before firing live ammo looks really good in court. Then you can tell that "he was drugged and just kept coming" story.

 

[RichP]

Whats wrong with a claymore, I used them for perimeter defense for years, very successfully I might add. Usually put out 4-6 in a ron position.

 

[8Mud]

Just for the record. don't expect a shotgun to be like the movies. Put up a plastic bag at fifteen feet and see how your shotgun spreads. It's likely most if not all of the pellets will be in a standard sized shopping bag at 15 feet, likely much tighter than that.
One thing most everybody forgets about is the spirit of the bayonet. Bayonet drill is much like a martial art, you don't really need the bayonet on the end either. It's actually more like baton drill. Bayonet drills have been perfected for centuries and are easier to learn than a martial art.
If you have a knife and I have an empty shotgun, I own you. If you have a baseball bat and I have an empty shotgun, you don't really have much chance.
Number 4 buck is a good choice, in fact everything from 4 buck through BBB, BB and even 2 shot works well. It actually works as a wad of shot and really doesn't make a whole lot of difference (within reason) as to the shot size.
There are some fallacies out there, 00 buck might be better for bleed out, but the smaller shot sizes actually have a bigger punch. I've shot hundreds of Foxes, number 2 shot will knock them down, when 00 will let them keep right on running.

 

[sjkimmel99]

On the chemical spray option, don't forget those usually come with several kinds of dispersal patterns - fog, stream of liquid and a stream of foam.

The fog type doesn't go very far, somewhat relies on the attacker moving into the fog (unless they're right on top of you,) can be blown around by the wind which also means it can blow back on you.

The two stream types suffer from needing to be "aimed" enough to hit the attacker in the face. Most applicators don't have the same grip ergonomics that a pistol or rifle has (some do - I think some of the "bear repellant" type have a grip. )

With no grip it is possible to actually shoot some of them pointing backwards - luckily it discharged against my hand and not into my face - but just saying in the dark in a high stress situation these things are far from foolproof. pun intended.

and x-whatever on the effect, or lack of, of chemicals on people high on meth. They'll need a Central Nervous System Disruption solution.


.

 

[sjd78]

You don't know guns and chicks. They pull them a lot faster than a guy would. Like when a drunk comes up to the car window. It's better that the drunk see the gun and leave than having a steathy small auto hidden from them till it's too late. Have you ever stared down the cylinders of a revolver? It's scarier than a .45. I still thinks only a fool totes a gun around to be misused. 185 perps killed by guns and over 8000 killed by misuse. Hmmm. Do you think if they were invented today they would be leagal? No. Why? Because you are 100 times more likly to have a handgun kill a non criminal than you are a till kill a criminal. Math and numbers are way against handguns. But they are leagal and pussys,gang members and criminals carry them to make them feel like a man. Chicks carry because they at times put themselfs in harms way. Teach them and yourself how to avoid hot spots and lock you weopons of death away because you play with fire long enough and you may get burned.

Hundreds of thousands of deaths by automobiles.... few by drunk drivers! Lets get rid of all of the killer automobiles...those damn things kill people right and left!!!

 

[sjd78]

This is what the anti gun crowd knows about you so if you want to keep your guns then be a little more informed so you don't look so freakish:

"Many pro-gun lobbyists seem unable to argue their case without including vindictive personalised attacks against individuals who put forward the opposite case. GCN receives a regular flow of these. The tone of the messages can be threatening, aggressive, rude and foul-mouthed."

Furthermore thay have vast collections of the wacked out things this gun lobby has done and published. It makes gun owners look like rednecks who can only rant slogans. Too bad and guys like you are part of the reason a lot of honest folks loose intrest in guns and rights to keep them.

Slobbering liberals like yourself call everyone who owns a gun a "gun freak" even though you admit to owning guns yourself and buying them illegelly! You are an idiot like stated above and should really stay out of anything fire arm related since your lack of knowledge and incompotence reassure us that you are an idiot!

 

[Stumpalump]

Slobbering liberals like yourself call everyone who owns a gun a "gun freak" even though you admit to owning guns yourself and buying them illegelly! You are an idiot like stated above and should really stay out of anything fire arm related since your lack of knowledge and incompotence reassure us that you are an idiot!

You gun freaks crack me up. They are protected by your constitution yet when sombody questions their true need you get you pink panties all in a knot. Take this advise,read your countrys constitution then remove your pink panties,untie the knot and make sure this time the petite label is in the rear. I'll ask again because nobody has ansered. If you wepons of death are protected by your constution then why do you take it so personal when sombody questions their need? I have pounds of guns and ammo and I don't think the contents could be picked up if they were all in one box but it dosent make me a beliver in daily carry or a beliver that some day the goverment is going to have to pry them from my cold dead finger. It's a joke! You fools let the gun freak lobby and hollywood distort all gun logic. But answer my question.