The Nail Salon

[SPECFab]

No I'm at 114" or so. lol

 

[stang65]

Im at 104.5

 

[NW-ZJ-SCOTT]

I'm aiming for 110"-112" for the best steering Ackerman on my setup

 

[TORX]

Spent some time after work one day planning out the three link. I had a pretty good idea of where things were going to go, but just wanted to take some time to plan it all out.

I wanted to toss the cross-member back on for the time being, but needed to ditch the stud on the frame since it was now too short with the added material. My plan was to just toss some longer bolts in both holes. I attempted the "double nut" method for stud removal only to have one side snap the weld nut inside the frame. This was a minor set back, but it gave me a reason to upgrade. Started by hacking a hole in the floor.

I then chiseled and cut away at the other intact weld nut, drilled the holes out to 7/16, and then welded 7/16-14 square nuts to the frame.

Step three, reinstall with new 7/16 bolts. Yes, I also did the other side as well, there's no way I could live with mismatched bolts.

Last chore was welding a patch panel over.

With the cross-member side project done, I then worked on getting the frame side LCA mounts ready for install. These Barnes4WD brackets are decent quality, but they're slightly over bent. My hiems measure 2.637", and these brackets measured 2.575". I spread the bracket with a 1/2" bolt to try and get enough room to slide the additional weld in piece in.

All welded up, with the additional weld washers around the bolts holes.

I planned to mount the brackets on the bottom of the stiffeners, but after mocking them up, I found they fit best held slightly off the inside edge. This gave a better angle on the hiems. So to help strengthen the inside I boxed in the area above the mount with 3/16. This should help spread the load better.

Double checked the axle was in position at 102" wheelbase, mocked up the lowers for 22", squared them up, and then tacked them into place.

Next step is tackling the frame side upper, which means going through the floor!

 

[NW99XJ]

 

[98CherokeeSport]

what made you not want to build a new crossmember? it would have drastically helped your link lengths as well

 

[knucklehead 61]

what made you not want to build a new crossmember? it would have drastically helped your link lengths as well

x2

wow, those are some really short links!
you probably already thought of this, but double check the lower mounts on the axle to make sure that you have enough clearance for larger tires to clear without rubbing when turned to full lock. i had to move mine inboard more due to this, & my rear mounts are much narrower than yours as they are mounted above & inside the bottom of the "frame" rails.

 

[Johnnie Walker]

I think he mentioned wanting to do "mid" arms already. But 22" eye-eye is short. My lower links tube are 22" not including 1.25" heim and bushings.
There always seems to be a madness to Dustin's method tho. (=

 

[SPECFab]

It all in the setup short arms can out flex most long arm setups

 

[NW-ZJ-SCOTT]

I say you should do brackets butt-welded to the front leaf spring hangers

Make 6' long lowers and 3' long uppers in a radius arm setup


And paint everything yellow

 

[ruger81]

I say you should do brackets butt-welded to the front leaf spring hangers

Make 6' long lowers and 3' long uppers in a radius arm setup


And paint everything yellow

I have seen that somewhere before:farmer:

 

[ruger81]

I know Dustin has done his home work. He sits back and does the research. I hope his build thread doesn't turn into a mine is longer than yours thread. I can't wait to snow wheel with him and his new setup. I hope the snow is epic this year.

 

[TORX]

I say you should do brackets butt-welded to the front leaf spring hangers

Make 6' long lowers and 3' long uppers in a radius arm setup

And paint everything yellow

I had a good laugh from this post. What's funny is the reality of it. :laugh:

I know Dustin has done his home work. He sits back and does the research. I hope his build thread doesn't turn into a mine is longer than yours thread. I can't wait to snow wheel with him and his new setup. I hope the snow is epic this year.

Thanks, man. In all honesty snow season is my biggest motivator to get this thing done, and dialed in. Some new shoes may accompany the New Year if all goes well. We're due for a good winter for sure.

what made you not want to build a new crossmember? it would have drastically helped your link lengths as well

x2

wow, those are some really short links!

Dudes just love to compare lengths.

Define "short" when it comes to link length. Are they short compared to the industry standard of a three foot "long arm", yes. However, I have to question when it became accepted that these 30-36" arms are required on a build like this.

A lot of you know I'm not a huge fan of the standard "long arm". I believe they've become a standard because of the huge aftermarket for them, but feel like most aftermarket companies manufacture them this way due to convenience. They're easy to design, build, and install, all on a bolt on kit. Do they offer more articulation and a better ride from stock arms, absolutely. However, I feel like a shorter arm designed right will do the exact same thing, and have some advantages.

Keep in mind stock arms are ~16". With a 22" arm, I would still be 6" longer than stock. That's a pretty decent increase in length. I'm only going to be running 6" of lift. When you look at the geometry of the suspension a longer link will swing in a larger arc, and have less back swing. However, on your typical XJ front end, I don't think we're getting near the amount of travel to where this becomes an issue. I'm only going to see 12" of travel max, before I bump and limit strap. I feel like the arm angle is more important, and why "short arms" on a lifted rig suck. With a steep angle you're starting your uptravel on the bottom side of the arc. My arm angle is only 9 degrees.

My last reason on going with the mid arm design is clearance. Do they hang below the frame, yes. However they don't extend far beyond the tire like some aftermarket designs. I've personally seen a lot of long arms get people hung up on the trail due to basically high centering on their arms. When the tire clears a rock, most long arms will then drag along said rock until they clear. With a shorter link, and high belly, I feel like my break over angle should be pretty decent.

This "mid arm" design is not new though. I've been researching three links for the past year, and have read a lot of different theories to design. A lot of proven "OG" rigs on hear run a setup very similar to this. One being Opie's cone dodger. It seems to do alright.

That's my .02 on why I chose to build things the way I did. This all could fail miserably, or work beautifully. Only one way to find out.

 

[TORX]

I ended up reworking the numbers on my upper mount location a bit, which pushed the lowers out another inch. I'm now at a proud 23" for the lowers.

Tim, I appreciate the advice on tire clearance. I tossed a tire on, and cycled the steering with the new mount location. I have clearance between the link and tire, but will probably be rubbing with 37's. I'm not too concerned though, since these wheels are 4" back spacing, which I do not plan on staying with. I'd like a little wider stance.

Mounts tacked on at 23", and inboarded 2".

I got "the feeling" that I was happy with the lowers, so it was time to move onto laying out the frame side upper.

My upper link will be 25", three inches longer than my lowers. I did this because by having a slightly longer upper link will actually cause the pinion to rotate up on down travel creating less stress on the driveline. So I laid out the center location of the upper bolt underneath, center punched, and drilled a hole through my floor. Then I began laying out how the bracket is going to fit. Scott, you'll have a nice foot rest next time you co-dawg for me.

Also, special shout out to SpecFab for hooking me up on my link material. Thank you! The Nail Salon is going to be a fatty. Gotta start thinking how to shed some weight.

 

[GordoSmasho]

Good explanation on the "mid arms". I have generally the same idea for the gorilla in coming months. Looking forward to seeing how you accomplish the upper mount. Nice work and good luck dustin

 

[98CherokeeSport]

This is why I enjoy talking with you dustin. You always have a good explanation. Keep up the good work man!

 

[NW-ZJ-SCOTT]

Should of 4 linked the rear






And.. Hole in the passenger floor?
I hope it doesn't get too dusty in the cab

 

[ruger81]

So what's the wheel base now? Did you move the rear (1") and the front (?)
I moved mine back when I did the Atlas and it made a huge differnce with the ds. And they way the tire fits in the wheel well.

 

[TORX]

Should of 4 linked the rear

Thinking that may be a project for next winter.

So what's the wheel base now?

Still at 102". I moved my frame side LCA brackets back 1", axles stayed in the same place.

I'm really surprised by the 5" BDS leaf packs. They seem to be quite a bit longer than their 3" pack, which helps with shackle angle, and they center the tire in the wheel well. We'll see how things work out, I can always kick the rear back like you did if need be.

I'd honestly love to end up around 106-108". However, that's not going to happen with the factory coil/leaf setup.


Time to start of fabbing up the upper link, which meant removing the stock frame side UCA mount. Sliced off most of the mount, and then ground off all the remaining spot welds for a clean slate.

I drilled a series of holes along the inside edge of the of frame to give me a reference point for the hole layout. Then it was commitment time.

I needed a strong platform to mount the upper link bracket to, so I made a reinforcement plate out of some 3/16" plate to weld to the inside frame.

The plate spans roughly 16", and I drilled it for plug welds. Here's a little trick when it comes to transferring hole locations if you don't have a transfer punch. Position the bracket over the plate, put some grease on the end of the bolt, and then slide the bolt into position. The grease will reveal the bolt location.

I ended up moving the bracket forward about a 1/4" inch, which meant the 1.5" hole I just drilled was off. I could have enlarged the hole, but had another trick to correct the problem. Find the hole saw cut out, weld it back in place, grind until it's smooth, and recut your hole. It's just metal, take it, and add it as you please.

Inner frame plate in position. You can also see I cut out more of the floor for the upper link to travel. I still need to fine tune the cut out once I cycle the suspension.

Glued my upper link bracket all together.

Mocked up the bracket for 25" back from axle centerline, and 26.5" off the ground. Tacked it into place, and then added some reinforcement plates for the floor. I still need to add some gussets from the bracket to the floor plates. I think once this is all welded together, it'll make for a really strong mount. My passengers are just going to have to suck it up when it comes to foot room.

I'm pretty happy with how the upper turned out. It was a sacrifice bringing it through the floor, but for the vertical separation (7") I was after it needed to be done. My only worry is clearance between the upper, and the starter under compression. If needed I can move the axle side mount out for clearance, but I won't know for sure until I can cycle it.

I also don't have a clue how I'm going to enclose it all, but I'll worry about that later. To be honest, if the noise and incoming debris isn't too bad, I'll probably just leave it open. :dunno:

 

[Demonoid369]

make a tunnel to cover the section then find some rubber plugs to cover the bolt holes. use lots of seam sealer also lol