Tall Coil Question

[vetteboy]

The problem with doing the shackle on the back of the spring in the front of an XJ is getting the leaf angle right. Unless you drop the spring down really far in the front (or get the shackle height really high in the rear), the spring will be tilted back and it'll brake dive like a mofo.

Really high-arched leaf springs require a ton of movement at the shackle to flex at all, so keep in mind you'll need a really long shackle to get any sort of flex out of it.

 

[JamesD]

I am open to anything whether it be a boomerang style or revolver etc. How far are we talking here in teh front to drop. I am thinking that what I may do is build a front bumper that is WELL re-inforced and extend it out a bit and start at the tip of teh front of the bumper and start with a box mount that has a gradual slope so that it will work as s slide on teh front and protect the spring at the same time so basically if you took like a solid metal "wheel" like a wheel of cheese that was hollow and cut it into 4 section then you would have four mounts for the front of the spring. Does this sound plausable. I am just wanting to incorporate it into the front bumper for strength but it will wlso be integrated into a slider on the front while achieving my desired drop to get the angle correct. I hope this makes sense. Any suggestions are appreciated. So my next question is which springs to go real tall at least enough to clear a 44" with clearance and what style of shackles etc.. Thanks

 

[olivedrabcj7]

Yes. The point of this thread was to gain a little more info on the mechanics of a tall spring but it has gone off on a wild tangent. LOL What about something like this instead of a spring. I assume that it is just a bellowed bag but is there a name for this or any info on it. THnaks

I think those are air struts. I know a guy in hot springs that has a set that he was going to put on a monster K5 he is building. They suck ass.

 

[ashmanjeepxj]

SO in doing this basically I need to achieve getting both shackles on the same plane I assume. Sorry to be such a noob but the mount in the rear will hang down farther when I inboard it so I need to cut the frame so I can move the mount up. In doing this could I not just drop th efront mount down? I hate to be such a noob about it but I am a whore for knowledge. Also what will I need to do to gain the MOST flex as possible. So I am assuming I will just have a rear suspension under the front I assume, shackel in th eback for both. Also I am going to have to extend my wheelbase quite a bit so what would be the best method of attack with this. Should I go with a wider eye to eye or a more narrow. Also what springs would you recommend. I want to get TALL. I am doing full hydro steer so other than brake lines all I have to worry about is drive shaft fitment and I hope to correct some of that by lengthening the wheelbase. SO any insight would be awesome. I have been looking at some of these http://www.competitionleafsprings.com/blank.html but I don't know if tehy will flex at all so any info there would be great. Thanks again guys.

I recommended the ranco brand 44044 part number is is a lift sping for a spring und wagoneer you will be using it spring over..

yes you could just do lik 8in of drop at the frotn to compensate for the shackle in back, but I think that would be too tall even for you. the 44044 leafs are taller then any I have run on my front. I would get the same leafs for the back, you coudl remove leafs formt eh pack if you wanted it alittle softer, the 44044 if a front leaf spring.



I recommend these:

 

[JamesD]

SO basically order 4 of these leafs and do a monster drop in the front and a custom mount for the rear shackle. Also what shackles should I use and what kinds of things do I need to compensate for in the rear or is it basically just moving the leafs over to the frame rails. How tall of a lift do you think that this will gross? Also any other helpful hints that I may need to get it to flex those leafs as much as possible. And another thing do I need to run trac bars with this? Sorry for the 20 questions but I hope to get started ASAP and I just want to have this planned out in my head so I have an idea of what I am shooting for. Thanks again guys.

 

[CRASH]

SO basically order 4 of these leafs and do a monster drop in the front and a custom mount for the rear shackle. Also what shackles should I use and what kinds of things do I need to compensate for in the rear or is it basically just moving the leafs over to the frame rails. How tall of a lift do you think that this will gross? Also any other helpful hints that I may need to get it to flex those leafs as much as possible. And another thing do I need to run trac bars with this? Sorry for the 20 questions but I hope to get started ASAP and I just want to have this planned out in my head so I have an idea of what I am shooting for. Thanks again guys.

Be sure to post pics, this is sounding like it's going to turn out bad-ass! :thumbup:

 

[JamesD]

Sweet guys. I am really excited about this. SO I have not heard a definitive answer on shackles yet. Also since I am doing it this way would it not be just as easy to use rockwells as it would a 60 and 14. The reason I ask is that I can get a few sets cheap. I also have not heard if I will have to have trailing arms. I know you guys have been around leafs that articulate and the principle should work the same. Any info is appreciated. I am wanting to order ASAP so LMK what you guys think.

 

[CRASH]

I really think you should consider doing a 4 link, with leaves. This will give you all the plush ride characteristics of a well-arched leaf spring, while eliminating the undesirable axle wrap.

Rockwells would really be much better for your application.

 

[vetteboy]

I am wanting to order ASAP so LMK what you guys think.

I think you are still way too indecisive about everything. Figure out what it is you want to do before ordering stuff. This is nowhere near as simple as you're making it out to be, especially working off an XJ.

I really think you should consider doing a 4 link, with leaves. This will give you all the plush ride characteristics of a well-arched leaf spring, while eliminating the undesirable axle wrap.

:roll:

 

[ashmanjeepxj]

If you cant make your own shackle dont attempt putting 44s on a cherokee.
Shackles are just two pieces of plate with 9/16in holes...Gimmick shackles like revolves are worthless, yea they flex but you get hop and axle wrap its not good.

I have decided leafs front and rear are reasonable for what you can handle. 16in coilovers will have GOBs more travle but I had a hard time getting 16in CO to work on mine, I think we agree were not at the same level...yet.

Jeep94XJ used 44044's on the front of his. Those are 38in tires, if you do shackle in bakc you will need to drop the front at least 4in so I think this setup would work good for you. I think his is 9in lift if you can say that, you would be at 12in or so lift.

I think were guiding you good with the 44044s.

you can buy leaf hangers from my buddie jeff.
http://www.ballisticfabrication.com

The 3in wide mount..

 

[rocklandxjer]

is that inventor or solidworks?

looks like the same kind of rendering..

 

[JamesD]

I can build shackles that is not a problem. I was just interested in getting the most flex as possible and if one of the "gimmick" shackles would do this for me then that is what I would go with. That is why I asked, not due to lack of knowledge on building one.

 

[JamesD]

What if I were to take and integrate a shacle into a frame brace? WHat I am thinking of is taking some 1/4 inch and using two appx 18" strips and cutting it to integrate the mount into that so that I am theoretically building the mount into the frame and bolting it on with 4 bolts each thru the rail. Does this sound plausable?

Also is there any freeware out there for designing parts like what you have done above? That way I can actually depict what I am talking about.

 

[vetteboy]

frame

Huh?

No frame to speak of. Just the unibody, and if you want what you're describing to actually last longer than two minutes, you're going to have to do a lot more work than just 'bolting it through' the front unibody structure.

I'll say it again, I think it's cool that you want to do this on an XJ but I also think you have no idea what you're in for. Please do some more research as far as what you actually want to accomplish here, and what you need to do to the vehicle as a whole in order to make it work well and safely.

 

[JamesD]

I TOTALLY understand that there is not a frame. You know exactly what I am talking about though when I say it. Why can I not kill two birds with one stone and integrate the mounts in with the plating of the "rails that protrude from the bottom of the body of the jeep" so that it will be structuraly sound.

Would you prefer that I weld this down the "rails that protrude from the bottom of the body of the jeep?"

 

[vetteboy]

You know exactly what I am talking about though when I say it. Why can I not kill two birds with one stone and integrate the mounts in with the plating of the "rails that protrude from the bottom of the body of the jeep" so that it will be structuraly sound.

Would you prefer that I weld this down the "rails that protrude from the bottom of the body of the jeep?"

I have seen MANY attempt at bumpers etc that just 'bolt through' the unibody. I've seen most of them rip apart during recovery. So don't just figure that proper reinforcement is assumed when you only say you're gonna go ahead and bolt something up.

Integrating the mounts in with whatever reinforcement you do is the only way I'd do it. And yes, I would say weld it down the unibody rails...how else were you planning on attaching the reinforcement stuff?

 

[Tradesman300]

Integrating the mounts in with whatever reinforcement you do is the only way I'd do it. And yes, I would say weld it down the unibody rails...how else were you planning on attaching the reinforcement stuff?

I agree, the "frame rails" in an XJ are so unbelievable thin. I am making long arms to add to my XJ, I plan to weld plate on the bottom and sides of the rail from the stock LCA mounts back to the Tcase xmember. eventually, I will add plating all the way back. I think there is NO other choice when you are adding components to the 'rails' but to weld on some real-live reinforcement.

 

[OT]

Thread is fixed, though probably a little too late.
You guys that aren't providing tech need to lurk and refrain from posting, IN ALL TECH THREADS.

Also, you need to remember, that someday, this sort of modification might be more commonplace for .
Knowledgable searchers will laugh at your ignorance.

Your bashing, flaming, and generally ill temperaments, will not go unchecked, in future discussions.
PERIOD!

 

[ashmanjeepxj]

I TOTALLY understand that there is not a frame. You know exactly what I am talking about though when I say it. Why can I not kill two birds with one stone and integrate the mounts in with the plating of the "rails that protrude from the bottom of the body of the jeep" so that it will be structuraly sound.

Would you prefer that I weld this down the "rails that protrude from the bottom of the body of the jeep?"

So did you buy any parts?

 

[Ramsey]

Good thing we can talk about you without worry of repercussion

Thread is fixed, though probably a little too late.
You guys that aren't providing tech need to lurk and refrain from posting, IN ALL TECH THREADS.

Also, you need to remember, that someday, this sort of modification might be more commonplace for .
Knowledgable searchers will laugh at your ignorance.

Your bashing, flaming, and generally ill temperaments, will not go unchecked, in future discussions.
PERIOD!