Tall Coil Question

[CRASH]

nothing wrong with building a bas *ss XJ, why does everyone think you need a frame based vehicle to build bigger?

It has nothing to do with having a frame, it has to do with wheelbase and room for an appropriate power plant and drivetrain. Yes, you can fit a big block and Rockwells on an XJ, but it is not easy, and certainly beyond our poster's ability, by his own admission.

A front 60, even with alloys throught-out, is going to suffer under the punishment of 44" tires. This guy ought to be thinking 2" shaft Rockwells if he's going to run hard.

 

[JamesD]

I do take advice from everyone out here that is why I cannot decide. One says this another says that so it is confusing. I am just wanting to have fun with it. Building it is half the fun. I enjoy a challenge and innovative things that is why I was so interested in doing something off the wall but almost everyone bashes me for wanting to try something out of the realm of 36's or 38's. WHY NOT!!!! If I screw it up that is my problem. I am just looking for some technical theory as to what I can do with what. I am not looking for someone to do it for me or a steo by step just a little info to get me on teh right track. THIS IS HOW WE LEARN. Trial and error. I am just asking for you to help me lower that coefficient of error.

 

[MudDawg]

Saw a pretty nice 2 door xj the other day at the mudhole...sorry, no pix...but it had Rockwells, lockers, 4 link with coils, custom 5.0 fulltime TC, smallblock ford power....little rough around the edges, entirely home garage built...but with the 48" terra tires it flung some pretty impressive mud and managed to run the course several times without getting stuck.

I was more impressed with what a guy built himself than with most of the pro built rigs....Go for it..if yah have the bux.

 

[JamesD]

SNap some pics for us the next time you spot it. Thanks

 

[vetteboy]

I'm smack in the middle of a build sorta like Ashman's...a little more body left though (doors still go on).

It's been...interesting so far. A lot more work than I originally thought, which is saying a lot because I tried to plan EVERYTHING ahead of time. IMO, especially after the amount of crap I've done to mine, you need:

- full unibody reinforcement. Probably from front to rear, although it'll depend on your suspension style. I hate leaf springs so I'm doing a 3-link front w/panhard and 4-link rear, and the 'frame rails' are going to be plated from coil mount to coil mount. Especially in the front area by the steering box and panhard frame mount.

- full cage. You'll need this for torsional rigidity, and also personal safety. Important to both the life of the vehicle and life of its passengers. Tie this in to the unibody reinforcement at many spots.

- solid front/rear bumpers and crossmembers. Connecting the two frame rails will help keep everything together too. Mount the crossmembers to the reinforcement stuff.

They're tough vehicles to build, I'll give it that. You either have to be willing to work within the constraints of the unibody (and maybe make compromises in performance and clearance), or you have to be willing to put the extra effort in to modify the unibody and make sure that it stays together after it's been hacked up.

edit: To relate this to your original question, I'll be running around 5-6 inches of "lift" when this is all done.

 

[ashmanjeepxj]

CUCV 1008's

What is that?

 

[rocklandxjer]

i think its a plow

 

[jeepjay90]

60s cant handle 44s, what?

 

[rocklandxjer]

not if you wheel it, its like wheeling 38s on a d35, it can be done, but its not really smart

 

[RyanM]

not if you wheel it, its like wheeling 38s on a d35, it can be done, but its not really smart

SPOBI !!!!!!!!
your comparing a 1/8ton to a ONE ton. you've never seen a chevy with 44's on a corp 10 bolt. holds up but is it a good idea no. will the d60s rip the frame away like u claim rockwells do?

what do you think the axles are on this xj YOU posted on 44s? cmon man

o well, here ya go, its your choice, do it

 

[Matt S.]

SPOBI !!!!!!!!
your comparing a 1/8ton to a ONE ton. you've never seen a chevy with 44's on a corp 10 bolt. holds up but is it a good idea no. will the d60s rip the frame away like u claim rockwells do?

what do you think the axles are on this xj YOU posted on 44s? cmon man

Uh actually dude, he is right. Unless your running 300m shafts in aftermarket knuckles and 40 spline 300m in the rear... your going to break. That Yellow XJ has a 14bolt centersection with (as far as I know) is stronger than a 60 by alot. Guys with 44s are almost HAVING to go to 2.5 tons to keep up with the size and difficulty of the trails. Even rockwell guys are having to put huge (read EXPENSIVE) shafts in to not break. The yellow XJ prolly has a HP60 in the front, it works. Yet, like said before, its like running 37s on a dana30. Sure you can do it, but it IS GOING TO BREAK. I for one, dont want to break. Then again, I dont want 44s.

EDIT: I dont know why I even try... no one listens to us West Coast Boys. Its not like the hardest wheeling on the face of the planet is in our backyards.:dunno:

If your back east, or in the mud... do it. Do whatever actually. Just do US a favor and don't say that because if didn't break for you must mean it is bullet proof.

 

[CanMan]

Well said Scrappy.

 

[RyanM]

well i had upgraded 60's in mind. ive seen plenty of 44's on dana 60's with v8's. he made it seem like its not possible. rockwells would definately be more suitable though obviously

edit we have rocks out east too just not as extreme. appilachens(sp?). my yj on a 14bolt hp 60 with 39.5's will be getting 44's next. ill tell you how it holds up out east

 

[JasonCherokee]

Most of the rigs in the TTC 2006 had D60's so I think if it is setup properly a D60 will be just fine.

 

[CRASH]

Please check BIGWOODY's post in advance tech for a stripped set of HP 60 gears, running 39.5's.

Kingpins AND balljoints suffer terribly under the width of 44's, as well.

In my worldview, I'd rather be over-built on axles rather than barely adequately built. But then again, I've spent a lot of time waiting on other people fixing their junk on the trail, and had a fair bit of breakage myself.

 

[JamesD]

A M1008 is a GM Military 1ton 4x4 60's in the front and 14 in the back. Good transfer case etc... Great truck to rob parts from if you can find them cheap. Gotta love surplus auctions.

 

[ashmanjeepxj]

I agree a stock 30 spline rear d60 dosent have a chance under 44s. But a 14bolt, with alloy shafts would be safe and cheap, and easier then boring spindle on a d60 to run 35 spline shafts.

The d60 front, In addition to have stock neck down shafts if older then 80, and not having 35 spline outers, The knuckles can crack if runnign high steer arms or under alot of abuse. My front d60 is still stock, stock lockouts, stock stub shafts and neck down inner shafts, with 5.13 gears. I havent had a chance to wheel it with the v8, auto and 4:1 but I do plan on some breakage.

Id like to have flanges, 35spline outers alloys, non neck down inner alloys, an ARB... but thats really expensive! Then my weak link would be the stock knuckles.

With him having a chevy d60 front low pinnion he can go deaper then 5.38 in gears. 6:17 would be nice for 44s.. if he uses the 14bolt its limited to 5.13s or the new 5.38 (with the scratches on the pinnion support) Ive seen a set Id run them. A d70 rear would be the best for him so he could run deeper then 5.38s and not need to upgrade the shafts.

 

[JamesD]

Hooray for Good info? Are there pics of the in boarded springs on your write up on PBB I am interested in how to do this. Thanks

 

[ashmanjeepxj]

Hooray for Good info? Are there pics of the in boarded springs on your write up on PBB I am interested in how to do this. Thanks

I never ran rear leafs, and My front leafs were shackle in front which if you see my pics cause many bent main leafs. on the frotn shackle in back is the "only" option.

My front 79 ford axle has leaf spring perches 31.5in on center, I think that GM axle would be the same and line up just under the XJ frame.

To do shackle in back you will need to run a good sixe leaf shim to keep the spring perches level at ride hiehgt for correct caster (steering).
I have not seen many shackle in back front cherokee swaps, it is more challenging. The best way In my opinnion is to chop the frame like i did last weekend for my upper link mounts, you could do this to help fit the rear shackle mount.

You would be the first that I know of to try a front frame chop to do shackle in back leafs... would be nice if you pulled it off.

 

[JamesD]

SO in doing this basically I need to achieve getting both shackles on the same plane I assume. Sorry to be such a noob but the mount in the rear will hang down farther when I inboard it so I need to cut the frame so I can move the mount up. In doing this could I not just drop th efront mount down? I hate to be such a noob about it but I am a whore for knowledge. Also what will I need to do to gain the MOST flex as possible. So I am assuming I will just have a rear suspension under the front I assume, shackel in th eback for both. Also I am going to have to extend my wheelbase quite a bit so what would be the best method of attack with this. Should I go with a wider eye to eye or a more narrow. Also what springs would you recommend. I want to get TALL. I am doing full hydro steer so other than brake lines all I have to worry about is drive shaft fitment and I hope to correct some of that by lengthening the wheelbase. SO any insight would be awesome. I have been looking at some of these http://www.competitionleafsprings.com/blank.html but I don't know if tehy will flex at all so any info there would be great. Thanks again guys.