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New motor oil wear problems on older engines

Mistake, please delete.
 
I found 20W50 quarts (5), of motorcycle racing oil that has even more ZDDP than the API SL spec :woohoo:, it lists API SF, SG on it, PRE API SL spec! Scored two quarts of Valvoline and 3 quarts of Castrol, 4.99/quart.
 
Ecomike said:
With the summer heat here, and engine wear we already have, we need the 20W50 viscosity to maintain the hot idle oil pressure pressure at a decent level. And last time I checked it seemed all the Rotella here was all synthetic now. I am having a hard time finding non synthetic as well as the 20-W50 at the same time, then tack on wanting SL or CH-4 ZDDP specs and it gets real tough.
Click to expand...


The triple T holds a CAT ECF-3, ECF-2, API CJ-4, CI-4 PLUS rating that would serve your ZDDP and detergent needs for sure.....
I'm not one for additives but maybe a mixture of this with the good old (worthless) oill additive LUCAS would serve your purpose ???
By worthless I mean it does nothing except extend (raise) viscosity which is what your looking for.
You could come up with a mix and have a VOA done on it to get the cSt ratings and flash points....
it would be cheap and easy to come by...

But I'm actually intrigued by your inquiry for 20-50 at your spec.and have been looking around myself as oils and maint. type fluids are one of my areas of constant research and I've grown to have a decent level of knowledge about the subject althgough I'm far from an expert.

You should post this @ BITOG...........
have you tried here.........http://www.texasrefinery.com/
or looked at a place like tractor supply ??
 
Talyn said:
What are you running 20w50 in?
Click to expand...

In both renix 4.0s, 145,000 and 275,000 miles, in peak summer Houston Humid temps at 105 F ambient, and in a 2001 Saturn SL1, with 225,000 miles.

If I use 15W40, the oil pressure is lower than I trust at hot idle, and they drink 15W40 like crazy. They all pass Stiff Houston emissions tests using 20W50, and run great.
 
I run 20w50w in the summer as well. It really helps the low end oil pressure. Cosider that we load our engines up right from idle. In high mileage engine I feel it to be pretty much mandatory to hold things together.

If I am wrong, I will be corrected... The first number is the physical viscosity and the second is the theoretical protection equivalant. I ran the stuff all year in the Harleys and Triumphs I have had over the years. Along with an oil cooler.
 
the first number is how the oil behaves when cold. E.g. the 20w50 will act like a 20 weight oil would at that temp, it will still be thick, but not thick as a 50 at that temp. The second reflects the oil viscosity at 210*.

I've never put 20w50 in any 4.0L I have ever owned. And they were all high mileage. However, I don't live in Houston Texas, but did live in New Orleans for several years. Never had a problem with oil pressure.
 
I can't find any of those oils in AutoZone, Napa, or Advance Auto Parts. I do add bottle of blue STP oil additive.
Where do you get those oils that are not SM, SN rated?
 
AdamG8GXP said:
I can't find any of those oils in AutoZone, Napa, or Advance Auto Parts. I do add bottle of blue STP oil additive.
Where do you get those oils that are not SM, SN rated?
Click to expand...

That is why I started posting to this thread again. I had been able to find it the last 3 years at Autozone in an Autozone brand, API SL only, but the last 4-5 months I have not been able to find any 1 gallon or 5 liter bottles anywhere. Only thing I have found was motorcycle oil, with the older pre-SL spec that have even higher zinc levels, but good luck finding a case of it or gallons!

If they made the diesel CJ-4 Plus in a 20W50 I would use it, but no makes a diesel oil that high. I have not had a chance to check out the place wsar10 suggested below.
 
What oil additive, that is easily available in Walmart, AutoZone, Advance, NApa... is good to bring the things in oil to the old oil levels?
(i keep reading about some things, but I never seen them in the store, and those posts are years old)
 
Just check any of the stocked oil additives, like STP in the blue bottle. They should talk about zinc, or ZDDP on the back of the bottle under ingredients. The blue STP bottle is mostly ZDDP. 1 pint is enough to raise the zinc, ZDPP level about 30% (adds about 400 mg/l or ppm) in a 5-6 quart oil system IIRC.
 
Talyn said:
See here: http://205.243.146.146/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1956155&page=2

VOA on the blue STP shows 669 phosphorus and 1119 Zinc, also confirmed by other VOAs. Now dilute that in 6qts of oil and its not worth much. Leave it on the shelf.

Valvoline VR1 might still have good ZDDP levels and can be had locally.
Click to expand...

I stand corrected it seems. I must be thinking of the old red bottle of STP which that thread also lists the data on, but I recall talking to the STP chemist back in 2008, I thought I recalled being told one of them was almost pure ZDDP, so those data posts contradict that. Been to long now to recall for sure. I may be thinking of one of the other suppliers that also had a ZDDP additive, one of them was in a red bottle, and GM had several at the time, not sure if those offered any more, but I think there are others offering ZDDP now.

Great thread link!!!!!

I think Valvoline VR-1 is one of the two 20W50 motorcyle oils I scored in a five quart find last week, that went into the Saturn (225,000 miles)?

I found some Texas oil at a local Sellers Brothers grocery store this week that was 40wt meeting API SC/SF specs from the dark ages!!!!! I need to research that, sounds like what I used on my 380,000 mile Dodge from the 70's, LOL.
 
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If this outfit is not lying they are selling pure ZDDP in 4 oz bottles? Also new to me.

http://www.zddppluscentral.com/

WOWZERS!!!!!!

http://www.zddplus.com/TechBrief1%20-%20Introducing%20ZDDPlus.pdf

There is good info in that pdf on the compromises we make by using diesel oils or racing/motor cycle oils in our DD gas engines!!

I may switch the API SN 20W50 and use this additive.

This one looks similar?

http://cam-shield.com/acatalog/How_to_use.html

http://www.lucasoil.com/products/di...- Engine Break-In Oil Additive - TB Zinc Plus

"Lucas makes a high ZDDP additive. According to lucas "Addition of 16 oz. to 4.5 quarts motor oil will achieve approximately 5,000 ppm of Zinc."
 
Last edited:
Ecomike said:
Something new! Looks like there are some viable options now!!!!

http://www.barsproducts.com/system/pdfs/43/original/4401%204401-5%204401-55%20Tech%20Sheet.pdf?1323886893

http://www.barsproducts.com/catalog...eatment-4401?gclid=CPCXhIXj3K4CFcMQNAodmkMzZg
Click to expand...
So add full bottle or half of it to oil to make ZDDP right?

(STP blue bottle is half the volume, and the PDF says ZDDP will be raised to 1700 ppm when whole bottle is used with 5 quarts of oil)

This one I can get at ANdvance Auto, so I will use it.
 
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Looks like the Lucas stuff is 35% ZDDP, and may be a lot less expensive in the 16 oz bottle than any of the other products, oz for oz...

I checked the Lucas MSDS and CAS number and it appears that ZDDP and ZDTP have the same CAS number, Lucas uses a TP designation on the product label and does not use ZDDP on the label (as I recall from my searches in 2008, there were several different organic zinc phosphate compounds made, and the ratios of Zn:p:S varied a little between them), so I am wondering if the Lucas is ZDDP, or ZDTP, or if there is any difference since CAS number seems to be the same for both?

CAS 68649-42-3

http://www.alibaba.com/showroom/68649--42--3.html

http://tigergroupchina.en.made-in-c...nc-Dialkylphosphorodithiloate-ZDDP-ZDTP-.html

This may explain the difference, concentration etc, the ZDTP is more concentrated, a white solid, and is used in other processes. See the purity chart:

http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/5...sphorodithiloate_Rubber_Accelerator_ZDTP.html

Looks like Lucas is trying to disguise their ingredient, throw people off with TP label, LOL.

Wiki server is down, but this may prove interesting when it is working later:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zinc_dithiophosphate
 
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