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New motor oil wear problems on older engines

I pickup the Mobil-1 'high mileage' oil at Walmart, they have 5 quarters on sale for $22 here. Bought a half dozen on saturday, will pickup more this week.
 
Ecomike said:
I am still finding API SL oil, lately been using Autozone brand API SL, 20W50 in 2 vehicles and 15W40 in the low mileage Jeep. Have not been able to find the older API CH diesel oil lately, still looking for a source to restock for my diesel.
Click to expand...

mikegronholz said:
Any oil for those who are looking:

John Deere Plus-50

Comes in 0w-40 and 15w-40. 0w-40 is synthetic, 15w-40 isn't. Both are rated at SL. 0w-40 is rated as CH-4 for diesel, the 15w-40 is rated at CI-4 Plus.

Here is the 15w-40 dino info

http://www.deere.com/en_US/parts/partsinfo/oils_and_lubricants/oil_plus50_15w40.html
Click to expand...

My father has been using either this or Rotella T for all of his diesel tractors on the farm. We've got a couple of 100HP+ tractors from the 70's that have seen more than their fair share of abuse and the engines haven't been opened once because, well, they're still running strong!

We lucked out on the John Deere oil, too. A local dealership was forced to close and had a month-long sale to get rid of everything in the store. We wound up buying 10 cases of the 15W-40 oil (8 quarts/case) for $15/case.
 
OK Fellows. Ive been following this post since '07. I change the oil in my 88XJ every 5k which now has 275k on it. Ive owned it since new and it has not ben rebuilt. I have always used Q-State 10w30 or 10w40 in it.

SO. What is the bottom line here? I just change the valve cover gasket and found a mininum of hard gunk build up inside the cover or on the head/valve train which I lightly scrubbed on in an attempt to remove some of it.

I had planed on doing another oil change just to "catch" any of the loose gunk that may not have drained out when I drained the oil during the cover gasket/gunk cleaning process.

Should I switch to a different oil? If so what do you all recommend?
 
Time to revive this old thread. I am doing up date research tonight. I have been using Autozone 20W-50 in my gas jeep and 2001 saturn engine the last 2 years because they have an API SL (Not SM) formula on the shelf here in houston.

But I am running out of oil for my old diesel engine jeep. Mobil Delvac 1300 super 15W-40 is on sale here, O'reilys, for $9.99/gallon so I was digging for zinc phosphate concentration data on it, as it is API CJ-4/SM, which I suspect has too little zinc, ZDDP. I found a nice mobil chart, dated this month that lists all their oils and the zddp content of them!

http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Files/Mobil_1_Product_Guide.pdf
 
Greets EcoMike,
Gotta git up for jury b.s. in 4hrs.., but I just read 15 pages of this complicated looking subject, lol, which in my opinion could be somewhat useful. However the bottom line I am interested in is what summer and winter oil I should use on an'89 4.0? We, with these engines would like to know!

Am I wrong in thinking that too much P&Z can kill CATS, and too little P&Z can damage tappet surfaces?

I have also read that too much 'moly' is corrosive, abrasive, and deposits too much residue on O2 sensor, and into CAT, thusly messing up performance, creating code nightmares. Oils with SM have moly in them. Since I am running RENIX, I do not have it's proper reader, etc., etc., etc.

Bottom line again: What do you recommend for those of us with these RENIX 4.0's to use. Seems I have so far leaned towards non-synthetic Mobile 1 High Mileage oils, (on my next purchase.., lol, if still available), since I do not like promoting 'leaks' with synthetics. What say 'ye?

I am up in the air about; CH-4, CI-4, API: SE, SG, SL grades in 5W-20, 10W-30, (If'in I've got my facts straight, lol.., feel like I belong in the funny farm).

After reading those first 15 pages, I saw no real recommendation as to what we 4.0 XJ'ers should use.., just a long investigative debate.:peace:
 
How long did cats last with the higher ZDDP oil? Quite a while. Yes, ZDDP can contribute to O2 sensor and cat death, but its not as bad as some people make it out to be. Also, too much ZDDP can be harmful to engine components. You want to shoot for around 1200-1300 PPM ZDDP.

Valvoline ZR-1 10w30 (silver bottle) is good for a stock 4.0L engine, however there has been some discussion that its ZDDP levels have been reduced.

As far as Amsoil ZDDP levels see here: http://www.amsoil.com/techservicesbulletin/motoroil/tsb mo-2007-08-08 flat tappet.pdf
 
Ecomike said:
Time to revive this old thread. I am doing up date research tonight. I have been using Autozone 20W-50 in my gas jeep and 2001 saturn engine the last 2 years because they have an API SL (Not SM) formula on the shelf here in houston.

But I am running out of oil for my old diesel engine jeep. Mobil Delvac 1300 super 15W-40 is on sale here, O'reilys, for $9.99/gallon so I was digging for zinc phosphate concentration data on it, as it is API CJ-4/SM, which I suspect has too little zinc, ZDDP. I found a nice mobil chart, dated this month that lists all their oils and the zddp content of them!

http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Files/Mobil_1_Product_Guide.pdf
Click to expand...


great chart but according to it all oils listted are full sythetic which i'm sure the majority of us with our notoriously leaky 4.0's don't use.
 
Alaskan89XJ said:
Am I wrong in thinking that too much P&Z can kill CATS, and too little P&Z can damage tappet surfaces?

That is correct on both items.

I have also read that too much 'moly' is corrosive, abrasive, and deposits too much residue on O2 sensor, and into CAT, thusly messing up performance, creating code nightmares. Oils with SM have moly in them. Since I am running RENIX, I do not have it's proper reader, etc., etc., etc.

Some of them Moly, some have calcium, some boron, some have mixes of the 3.

Bottom line again: What do you recommend for those of us with these RENIX 4.0's to use. Seems I have so far leaned towards non-synthetic Mobile 1 High Mileage oils, (on my next purchase.., lol, if still available), since I do not like promoting 'leaks' with synthetics. What say 'ye?

I am using Autozone API SL grade, 20W50 on my 4.0's (140,000 and 287,000 miles), here in hot humid Houston, where it rarely gets below 32 F. I am also using it on a 2001 Saturn with over 200,000 miles. It does not show API SM on the label, it is the older spec, and is and has been available the last 2 years, private label Autozone (probably made by Warren Petroleum).

I do not have any new, tight engines, or cold climate issues to deal with, so those with newer engines and cold weather need to make other choices!!!!

I am up in the air about; CH-4, CI-4, API: SE, SG, SL grades in 5W-20, 10W-30, (If'in I've got my facts straight, lol.., feel like I belong in the funny farm).

The CH, CI grades are diesel oil specs.

After reading those first 15 pages, I saw no real recommendation as to what we 4.0 XJ'ers should use.., just a long investigative debate.:peace:
Click to expand...
 
I have a couple of thoughts on your questions. I am under the impression the new cat converters are different than the old cat converters. They are dual metal (not just platinum like the original cats) I think, and are designed to lower NOx better, and they are designed (with the right oil) to last over 200,000 miles (IIRC all that is pretty close, a summary of what I have picked up reading this and that the last year or two, but may not be exactly all correct).

I also think the new synthetic, lower viscosity oils get consumed a little faster, in the name of fuel efficiency, more goes into the Cat converter per mile. Old cats were warrantied for 50,000 miles IIRC, and usually lasted up to about 80,000 miles on well maintained vehicle.

In my case, I also have a non cat, 1982 diesel engine (SD-22, Nissan) in my 85 Jeep, that was using a higher ZDDP content oil, about 1800 ppm, under the old CF-4 rules, so I am even more concerned about it, as it does not leak and gets 34 MPG on diesel!!!

Talyn said:
How long did cats last with the higher ZDDP oil? Quite a while. Yes, ZDDP can contribute to O2 sensor and cat death, but its not as bad as some people make it out to be. Also, too much ZDDP can be harmful to engine components. You want to shoot for around 1200-1300 PPM ZDDP.

Valvoline ZR-1 10w30 (silver bottle) is good for a stock 4.0L engine, however there has been some discussion that its ZDDP levels have been reduced.

As far as Amsoil ZDDP levels see here: http://www.amsoil.com/techservicesbulletin/motoroil/tsb mo-2007-08-08 flat tappet.pdf
Click to expand...
 
Mike1331 said:
great chart but according to it all oils listted are full sythetic which i'm sure the majority of us with our notoriously leaky 4.0's don't use.
Click to expand...

That is true! Thanks for pointing that out to others here!

Also note worthy is the newest API SN rating that is replacing the API SM rating on the store shelves at a rapid pace, since August last year! I have read that some of the new SN oils are replacing ZDDP with ZDP, which they claim is not as bad for the Cat converters as ZDDP was. But my question for them is, if the lower ZDDP numbers were truly safe for engines, why are they now adding ZDP to the formulas????:D

Hmm, "White man speak with forketh tongue" perhaps?

They both have zinc (Z) and phosphate (P) in the them. So I am also wondering if the newest SN oils might be safer (due to added ZDP) for the older engines than the SM oils? But I am not planning to do any trials for them!!!!:D
 
for the record i've been using vatozone 20w50 on two different motors since i saw this thread two years ago and have had no oil related issues with either motor...
 
Last edited:
Well I finally found some more old spec diesel oils today at NAPA. The stuff they had last that I went in to buy, even though it was way overpriced, was out stock,:bawl: and the counter guy said they never stocked in, LOL!!!:banghead:

But I found some new inventory there today, that was not there last time, that had the old specs, in fact I found several, and had to choose for once!:laugh: Which was good, as I was using the last of my stash today to change the very dirty diesel oil!

I finally grabbed some 15W40 Valvoline diesel that had the CH-4 PLus/SL oil spec (NO CJ-4 on the label, YESSSS!!!!), and some NAPA brand filled by Ashland oil that was CJ-4/SL, CH-4 Plus that can be use on gas or diesels for about $13.50/gallon. Also got some Mobil Delvac for $9.95/gallon (sale ends in a few days), but it is CJ-4/SM & CH-4 Plus (Have not decided what I will use it on yet), being as it is one of the odd ball API specs that makes no sense, and Mobil has not answered my email yet regarding the ZDDP content.
 
Jeez, here i can't find that crap anywhere (cept for delvac on occasion) and you come across a slough of it.

What weight was the napa brand?
 
It was 15W-40, NAPA All Service Engine oil, packaged by Ashland oil (who also packages Valvoline it seems). It is suitable for both old gas or old diesel engines.

It took me a good 6 months of looking to get lucky!!!

My prior buy about 2 years ago was Coastal packaged by Warren Petroleum, 15W-40, CI-4 Plus/SL spec.

I found some more Autozone 20W-50 (bought 10 gallons) with the highest spec being API SL on it a few weeks ago, after it nearly disappeared.
 
Well I have run out of sources here in Houston for 20W50 API SL spec dyno (Non-synthetic) oils. I am digging into the latest API SN spec that has now replaced the API SM oil spec. Here are some interesting links and reads:

http://www.rmmengines.com/Joe_Gibbs_Oil.html

http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=1792313814397

http://www.g503.com/advertising/oil-spec.pdf

http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Files/Mobil_1_Product_Guide.pdf

http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/cadillac-forum/t-229427.html
 
http://www.ihonlynorth.com/forums/oil-tech/4386-new-gasoline-engine-api-sn-motor-oil.html

"Editor’s comment: You might recall back when the “SM” specification went into effect that there was very little, if any pre-warning and it left consumers un-informed as to the change and what it would mean for their equipment. Consequently, with this planned change in mind, more information is being released. Note that there will be a new type of zinc used, but it will not be tested for compatibility with flat tappet camshafts - so for engines requiring the good old zinc formulation such as in historic, high performance and pre- 2007, we still recommend the oil specification to be no newer than “SL.” SWEPCO 306 fills the bill on those."
 
Why not just plain old Rotella 3T in 15/40............ I'm pretty sure it still holds a CJ-4 rating
It's a very stout oil with a VOS that reads like this.....

Virgin Sample

42 - Molybdenum

10 - Boron

1083 - Magnesium

752 - Calcium

1044 - Phosphorous

1078 - Zinc

15.7 - Visc @ 100C

10.6* - TBN


I run there T5 in my 4.0's the benefit of it's add pak.
 
With the summer heat here, and engine wear we already have, we need the 20W50 viscosity to maintain the hot idle oil pressure pressure at a decent level. And last time I checked it seemed all the Rotella here was all synthetic now. I am having a hard time finding non synthetic as well as the 20-W50 at the same time, then tack on wanting SL or CH-4 ZDDP specs and it gets real tough.
 
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