Learning to Weld

[Jawa]

With taking on a front 44 build and seeing some of the stuff people have built around here, I really want to acquire some basic welding skills. I just don't know where to start... :dunno:

I've been reading up on the basics and trying to get an idea of what I need equipment-wise. It seems like a basic wire feed arc welder would handle the sort of work I want to do, but I have no idea which brands are better, what sort of amperage to look for, etc, etc. I'm hoping some of you guys can point me in the right direction. Then, of course, I'm going to have to start bribing people with beer and food for some welding lessons. :laugh3: Is it worthwhile to shell out the $$$ for welding classes?

 

[Skully]

With taking on a front 44 build and seeing some of the stuff people have built around here, I really want to acquire some basic welding skills. I just don't know where to start... :dunno:

I've been reading up on the basics and trying to get an idea of what I need equipment-wise. It seems like a basic wire feed arc welder would handle the sort of work I want to do, but I have no idea which brands are better, what sort of amperage to look for, etc, etc. I'm hoping some of you guys can point me in the right direction. Then, of course, I'm going to have to start bribing people with beer and food for some welding lessons. :laugh3: Is it worthwhile to shell out the $$$ for welding classes?

About 9 years ago I taught myself watching others and getting stick time playing with scrap. Read articles on all the basics, learned what to use on what metals etc. I am not a pro, but everything I have ever welded never broke because of my welds.

Always wanted the certification, but never got around to it and since I just do my own stuff it doesn't matter.

I would not waste my time on a 110v welder go straight to a 230v. I picked mine up for about $700. I have Millermatic 175 (newer model is 180), I worked with a Millermatic 210 at our little shop venture I had and that thing was awesome, but mine for what I do works just fine. Hobart is I think owned by the same company as Miller but a little less quality, I have played with an older Lincoln 230v but it was a pos, abused machine me thinks, other than that stay away from Cambel Hausfeld, pieces of junk...........

The funnest toy I ever bought was my Hypertherm Plasma Cutter......now that is fun! :greensmok

You are always welcome to come up and play!

 

[YELLAHEEP]

Ditto on the Hobart 175 in 230V version.

I taught myself on this welder. Works very good, simple to use and reasonably priced. When you take the plunge and buy one, don't skimp - get the auto dimming welding mask. The cover gas and bottle are the only other real expense people overlook. Generally, you lease a bottle (one time fee, then you just swap bottles, empty for filled, and pay for just the gas. IIRC, I paid $125 for the first bottle and gas on a special deal, then gas is usually around $70 for a 40lb tank after that.)

Then it's just spending time burning some wire. There's lots of good stuff on line - I'd found a cool site that had a Power Point slide show to download that went over lots of info and trouble shooting your welds. Can't recall where now....... :dunno:

 

[DutchVDub]

I personally prefer Lincoln Welders myself. I used to be a MillWright and spent 50hrs a week welding up I-Beams for construstion projects. We had 1 Hobart, 1 Miller, and 4 Lincoln MIG-welders in our shop. We all preferres the Lincoln welders, they are a bit more simplistic but thats what we loved about them. they were really easy to dial in and never gave us issues. The Hobart we had was all digital and you we constantly have to fine tune it while you were welding. The Hobart and Miller machines were also breaking wire more often.

 

[xjmatt]

Same story here. I started out on a friends flux cored 110v Hobart 135 and could throw down a bead but they always required a lot of cleanup and penetration was spotty on thicker stuff. I bought myself a 220v Hobart 187 and a gas bottle and the difference is night and day. I'd even say I've learned faster on the better machine.

I know a good welder should be able to use any machine well but starting out I was not a good welder and the better machine let me get to being a mediocre welder more quickly!

 

[_dallas_]

Go with a MIG machine. Don't waste your time with flux core. The welds are really messy. Spend the intial extra money and get a bottle of CO2, don't let the welding shop talk you into getting the CO2/Argon mix. It is alot more expensive upfront and to get your bottle refilled is at least twice as much. Make sure you read your instructions on how to set your machine up, polarity of the gun and the flow rate of gas. Also most modern machines have a chart that tells you the settings for wire speed and amps based on the thickness of material.

 

[Jawa]

Great feedback guys, thank you. I've heard before that a 110V is a waste of time and money. The only problem is I don't have 230V in my garage. My father-in-law ran several 230V outlets into his garage, so I imagine I could get him to help me do it in mine. I'd think there are permits and stuff required for that though... Either that or I unplug my oven and weld in the kitchen. Oooh, that reminds me that the plug for my oven is in a wall that's shared with the garage! I bet I could tap into that line pretty easily. I just need to make sure the oven isn't in use while I'm welding.

Sounds like the Hobart 187 is a good way to go. Any recommendations on other equipment? Yella mentioned the auto-darkening mask and gas, do I need anything special as far as gloves, fire retardant suit, respirator, etc.?

Dang... looks like it'll be $1,000 easy just to get started.

 

[DutchVDub]

welder, mask, and gloves. also a wire brush and welder's hammer.

 

[YELLAHEEP]

You'll also want the welder's "tip tool" pliers. It's an all-in-one tool to cut your wire when it's too long out the tip, clean the tip and shield, and replace tips when they get worn.

About the only time you'd want a thick canvass or leather welder's jacket is when welding under something - the "cherries" can get into very painful places and they burn....... man do they burn...... Otherwise, the longer welder's gloves are all you need.

As far as getting 220v in the garage, yeah, that oven circuit should work. When I had my 220v air compressor at our first house - a townhouse, single car garage, I had an electrician buddy make me a 20' extension cord that I plugged into the dryer outlet and out to the garage.

 

[Hypoid]

Oooh, that reminds me that the plug for my oven is in a wall that's shared with the garage! I bet I could tap into that line pretty easily. I just need to make sure the oven isn't in use while I'm welding.

You don't even want to go there. Where does the electrical come in the house...the main panel? Is it close to the garage?

You might as well have a sub panel for the workshop. Once you start collecting toys, you realize how cool it would be to have the full set.

Since the garage is attached, look into some ventilation.

 

[.40CalPatriot]

You should come up to Skullys place when we do my bumper and we can learn together (pending Skullys approval of course)

 

[Stang5lgt]

Great feedback guys, thank you. I've heard before that a 110V is a waste of time and money. The only problem is I don't have 230V in my garage. My father-in-law ran several 230V outlets into his garage, so I imagine I could get him to help me do it in mine. I'd think there are permits and stuff required for that though... Either that or I unplug my oven and weld in the kitchen. Oooh, that reminds me that the plug for my oven is in a wall that's shared with the garage! I bet I could tap into that line pretty easily. I just need to make sure the oven isn't in use while I'm welding.

Sounds like the Hobart 187 is a good way to go. Any recommendations on other equipment? Yella mentioned the auto-darkening mask and gas, do I need anything special as far as gloves, fire retardant suit, respirator, etc.?

Dang... looks like it'll be $1,000 easy just to get started.

http://www.toolking.com/hobartwelders_500525a.aspx
Here is where I got my Hobart 187. I like better then my Lincoln. As far as a outlet for 220v I can hook ya up. I hooked up one for Dutch. You don't need a permit for a outlet. I just bought a 10 gauge cord and used that for my power gives me 50ft from the panel. Cost about 80 bucks for all the stuff. You can get a welding mask and rest of your stuff at toolking. They have a store over by 6th and kipling.

 

[Jawa]

You should come up to Skullys place when we do my bumper and we can learn together (pending Skullys approval of course)

Lemme know when, I'm game.

http://www.toolking.com/hobartwelders_500525a.aspx
Here is where I got my Hobart 187. I like better then my Lincoln. As far as a outlet for 220v I can hook ya up. I hooked up one for Dutch. You don't need a permit for a outlet. I just bought a 10 gauge cord and used that for my power gives me 50ft from the panel. Cost about 80 bucks for all the stuff. You can get a welding mask and rest of your stuff at toolking. They have a store over by 6th and kipling.

That's over $100 less than just about all the other places I was looking, thank you. My breaker box is on the outside wall of my garage, so I imagine it'd be a quick job to run a line in.


So... some people have told me that with the very little amount of welding I'm likely to be doing, a Harbor Freight welder would work just fine. They've got a 160A 230V MIG for about $300. Anybody have experience with HF (Chicago Electric) welders? If one of those would work sufficiently for my limited use I'd be inclined to save the $250 on the Hobart. I'm just trying to find a good quality/cost balance here.

 

[Skully]

Lemme know when, I'm game.

When ever XJboy gets the bumper kit we will have to have a bumper throw together party :greensmok

............I got to see how much wire I have left and get some more tips.......plus get some spare helmets so others can watch.......speaking of, I need to get a new lens for my speedglass helmet.........

That's over $100 less than just about all the other places I was looking, thank you. My breaker box is on the outside wall of my garage, so I imagine it'd be a quick job to run a line in.

It is not necessarily if you have the box right there makes it easier to route, it is if you have an open spot in your box.........if you need an electrician my Dad is a one...........although he is grumpy and lazy in his old age :jester:

So... some people have told me that with the very little amount of welding I'm likely to be doing, a Harbor Freight welder would work just fine. They've got a 160A 230V MIG for about $300. Anybody have experience with HF (Chicago Electric) welders? If one of those would work sufficiently for my limited use I'd be inclined to save the $250 on the Hobart. I'm just trying to find a good quality/cost balance here.

:scared: ...............AH! stay away!

Even if you don't do that much welding at first it is a great investment and maybe you will start to do other things? Might as well invest a little more to have a tool that will last you a lifetime than be something that is just cheap....................... Scour ebay and pawn shops for possible finds, you might get lucky?

 

[Hypoid]

.......plus get some spare helmets so others can watch.......

I might have a spare or two for loan.

Craigslist>tools> search welders

 

[YELLAHEEP]

http://denver.craigslist.org/tls/887593311.html

http://denver.craigslist.org/tls/876533776.html

http://denver.craigslist.org/tls/863131991.html

 

[Stang5lgt]

http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_6970_200311890_200311890
http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_6970_200342924_200342924
Here are couple. The clarke one comes with everything you need minus gloves. Which are 14 bucks at lowes. Plus the one at Toolking is about 30-50 bucks cheaper at the store then online. Since they don't have to do free shipping. I don't know if I would waste my time on the Habor Freight welder. You can use my 187 when you come over Sun. I have a arc welder and oxy acetylene torch too. I can teach the basics. Since you only live like 5 miles from me.

 

[xjmatt]

I'm pretty sure splicing a 220v line is a big no no but maybe there is a correct way of doing it. I believe most electric stoves are going to be a 50 Amp breaker. In the manual for the HH 187 it explicitly states to NOT put it on anything larger than a 30 amp breaker. Guessing it's a 2nd level of overload protection for the welder. 50 Amp might be fine but not being an electrician I just go by the book.

I'm in a townhouse and adding a 30 Amp breaker to the panel would put it in an overload situation. Luckily I have a gas stove but they wired a 50 Amp breaker in the box so you could pick your appliances. I pulled the 50 Amp and put a 30 Amp in it's place and then ran all the wiring with 10 gauge to a waterproof box directly under my panel. Then I made a 50' extension cord out of 10 gauge. Cheapest way I found to make the 50' extension cable was to buy a 110v 10 gauge extension cord and chop the ends off and wire the correct 220v plugs on it.

Everything works great and I've run the welder at every setting it's got without popping a breaker or melting anything I didn't plan on melting!

 

[.40CalPatriot]

As you already know I have no welding experience so I really have no idea what welder is the best, but I do know it is one of those things that you when you buy one you buy the best the first time.

 

[Jawa]

You can use my 187 when you come over Sun. I have a arc welder and oxy acetylene torch too. I can teach the basics. Since you only live like 5 miles from me.

Sweet! I'll take you up on that offer too. I just Mapquested it - 1.76 miles. I'm just across Hampden from ya.

I'm pretty sure splicing a 220v line is a big no no but maybe there is a correct way of doing it. I believe most electric stoves are going to be a 50 Amp breaker. In the manual for the HH 187 it explicitly states to NOT put it on anything larger than a 30 amp breaker. Guessing it's a 2nd level of overload protection for the welder. 50 Amp might be fine but not being an electrician I just go by the book.

That's something to definitely keep in mind, thank you. Splicing the line is attractive since I don't have any open slots in my fuse box, but that breaker issue could be a problem. When I had an evap cooler put in a couple years ago they were able to install a split breaker that allowed them to put two breakers in one slot. I'll have to do that again if I do it right and run a new line...