GUNS & AMMO

That's true, but so is Yella's point -- we're becoming fairly adept at creating little sociopathic monsters. Do some reading on the incredible coincidence of prescription anti-depressant use in the perps of these mass killings... side effects are known to include violent behavior, but no, its not the drug that the pharmaceutical companies in bed with the feds produce, its the tool that the doped up psycho chooses to use. :rolleyes:

You make a good point about medicating youth, but that is completely wrong....it is 30round magazines. Just watch. July 1st there will be no more mass shootings. Once AWB is in place there will be no more violence at all :spin1:

On a side note, I completely agree with you!
 
That's true, but so is Yella's point -- we're becoming fairly adept at creating little sociopathic monsters. Do some reading on the incredible coincidence of prescription anti-depressant use in the perps of these mass killings... side effects are known to include violent behavior, but no, its not the drug that the pharmaceutical companies in bed with the feds produce, its the tool that the doped up psycho chooses to use. :rolleyes:

I couldn't agree more...

Follow the money:

Who stands to gain from this legislation? If I've learned nothing else in Corporate politics that it's always, always, always about the money. Money is power and money can buy you influence. There is no right or wrong anymore. There is no morality. The centers of influence are contigent upon what we are engaged in (as a Country) at that particular moment.

10 years ago when we were active in the Middle East, no politician in the country would have dared to speak up against munitions. No one dared to tarnish those relationships. Now that we're reducing the size of our military and disengaging in wars, the relationship with Arms manufacturers can be put on the back-burner. They're not as important because the Fed doesn't need them anymore.

Just imagine these shootings occuring in 2005. Do you think there would have been this push at the height of Operation Iraqi Freedom?

Now it's Obamacare; and every generic pharmasuetical executive in the country is squeezing their nipples in delight that Socialized medicine will be focused on pumping the average US citizen up to their eyeballs with drugs. Their drugs.

Look at Elizabeth Folwer: She is considered the architect of the Affordable Health Care act. Once this was passed into law, she immediately resigned and accepted the job as an executive at Johnson & Johnson's global affairs divisions. Why?..Because it is the mentallity of the US government to create legislation that they can then profit off of.

Unfortunately guys, our sell-out politicians embody the sleazy, anti-democratic, corporatist revolving door that greases Washington.
 
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Who is the largest supplier of porno-scanners to the TSA -- the company owned by former Bush administration DHS Secretary Michael Chertoff... Who is the largest cable TV provider in formerly war-torn Serbia? Former Clinton Secretary of State Albright, who spent just a touch of time there.

Corruption and centralized power go hand and hand -- if the Feds were stripped of all authority not specifically delegated in the constitution, and that authority returned to the various states, what motive would the power-hungry have to seek federal office? No money flows to those who don't have the power to grant favors... DECENTRALIZE!
 
Who is the largest supplier of porno-scanners to the TSA -- the company owned by former Bush administration DHS Secretary Michael Chertoff... Who is the largest cable TV provider in formerly war-torn Serbia? Former Clinton Secretary of State Albright, who spent just a touch of time there.

Corruption and centralized power go hand and hand -- if the Feds were stripped of all authority not specifically delegated in the constitution, and that authority returned to the various states, what motive would the power-hungry have to seek federal office? No money flows to those who don't have the power to grant favors... DECENTRALIZE!

You, my friend, are a Libertarian. Waste a vote with me :cheers:
 
I am past wasting my vote federally, I have withdrawn my consent ;)
 
I've voted for third party candidates for 20 years... I have not seen any evidence that my protest vote has any impact, so I'm done casting it. I will remain active in local politics, as at least their abuse of police powers and authority has the color of law... If the authority of government in a free society is based upon the consent of the governed, this governed no longer consents to this federal government. Its a bigger step than continually voting for the Constitution/Green/LP/etc. candidates!
 
That's true, but so is Yella's point -- we're becoming fairly adept at creating little sociopathic monsters. Do some reading on the incredible coincidence of prescription anti-depressant use in the perps of these mass killings... side effects are known to include violent behavior, but no, its not the drug that the pharmaceutical companies in bed with the feds produce, its the tool that the doped up psycho chooses to use. :rolleyes:

I couldn't agree more...

Follow the money:

Now it's Obamacare; and every generic pharmasuetical executive in the country is squeezing their nipples in delight that Socialized medicine will be focused on pumping the average US citizen up to their eyeballs with drugs. Their drugs.

Coming from someone who works in the Pharmaceutical and Biotech Industry (and has worked for one of the larger generic manufacturers)...

All I gotta say is a giant :doh: to both of these statements.

So many people seem to think of the world of "drugs" as a bunch of smoke and mirrors, people in bed with the feds, wallowing in money, etc.

You couldn't be more wrong in most instances.

Hell...the Feds are the last people pharma and biotech companies are in bed with :D

It would BOGGLE people's minds if they knew how much it cost to just ATTEMPT to make just 1 product.
 
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Coming from someone who works in the Pharmaceutical and Biotech Industry (and has worked for one of the larger generic manufacturers)...

All I gotta say is a giant :doh: to both of these statements.

So many people seem to think of the world of "drugs" as a bunch of smoke and mirrors, people in bed with the feds, wallowing in money, etc.

You couldn't be more wrong in most instances.

Hell...the Feds are the last people pharma and biotech companies are in bed with :D

It would BOGGLE people's minds if they knew how much it cost to just ATTEMPT to make just 1 product.

You're basically saying that with reform, insurance companies won't be aggressively pushing outpatient care and low-cost prescription drugs as a way to keep premiums low. Leaving companies like TEVA to stand gain incredible market share - who also was a contributor to the Democratic/Obama campaign.

If that's what you're saying than, then you're being very naive.
 
Coming from someone who works in the Pharmaceutical and Biotech Industry (and has worked for one of the larger generic manufacturers)...

All I gotta say is a giant :doh: to both of these statements.

So many people seem to think of the world of "drugs" as a bunch of smoke and mirrors, people in bed with the feds, wallowing in money, etc.

You couldn't be more wrong in most instances.

Hell...the Feds are the last people pharma and biotech companies are in bed with :D

It would BOGGLE people's minds if they knew how much it cost to just ATTEMPT to make just 1 product.

I'm not a caveman, and have no problem with beneficial drugs -- but BS if you don't think the AMA and government are the biggest pushers in the US. I have no problem with a pharma company making an honest profit and recouping what I fully understand are substantial R&D costs in product development. What I have problems with is stupid bureaucratic agencies like the FDA controlling what does and does not come to market, regulating healthy food choices and supplements as though their meth, and creating the false image that "better living through chemistry" works.

I'm not making up the fact that kids that may have a tough time focusing, instead of being taught to compensate for those issues and embrace the gifts they do have, instead get prescribed boatloads of amphetamines and pschoactives, when there is clear evidence of the adverse side effects - including violence -- that accompanies these "meds", particularly in the hormone varying systems of adolescents. Keep making flonase for me, but could we lay off the ritalin and prozac for our kids? :lecture:
 
Personally, I think socio/psychopaths are born. They just have a tendency to survive longer in our civilized society.
 
Well the assclown in Denver signed the gun control bills.
 
You're basically saying that with reform, insurance companies won't be aggressively pushing outpatient care and low-cost prescription drugs as a way to keep premiums low. Leaving companies like TEVA to stand gain incredible market share - who also was a contributor to the Democratic/Obama campaign.

If that's what you're saying than, then you're being very naive.

Ahhh...you said insurance companies...NOT manufacturer completely.

Yes, the insurance companies will push generics (though they are NOT the same as the non-generic drug).

TEVA...one company. They may be the "world largest manufacturer of generics" but they still are just one company. There are MANY other large manufacturing companies (there is one in Broomfield).

But, then that theoretically should push everyone NOT in the generics manufacturing away, as they would then be losing their market share (which is a larger share than generics). You talking about generics is just one piece of the pie...which has many other slices.

If they did contribute to the Obama campaign then yes shame on them. BUT...that is NO different than the NRA and gun manufacturers contributing to say...the Republicans campaign. You tend to contribute to those who are going to keep you in business and help you make money. Lets not be in denial, Republicans are NO better about this than Democrats.

I'm not a caveman, and have no problem with beneficial drugs -- but BS if you don't think the AMA and government are the biggest pushers in the US. I have no problem with a pharma company making an honest profit and recouping what I fully understand are substantial R&D costs in product development. What I have problems with is stupid bureaucratic agencies like the FDA controlling what does and does not come to market, regulating healthy food choices and supplements as though their meth, and creating the false image that "better living through chemistry" works.

I'm not making up the fact that kids that may have a tough time focusing, instead of being taught to compensate for those issues and embrace the gifts they do have, instead get prescribed boatloads of amphetamines and pschoactives, when there is clear evidence of the adverse side effects - including violence -- that accompanies these "meds", particularly in the hormone varying systems of adolescents. Keep making flonase for me, but could we lay off the ritalin and prozac for our kids? :lecture:

Once again... government =/= manufacturers.

"I have no problem with a pharma company making an honest profit and recouping what I fully understand are substantial R&D costs in product development."

I'm glad you know at least this part :D

I'm amazed that people don't realized these companies exist just like any other...to turn a profit and make the people they owe money (share holders, etc.) happy.

Yes they do "feel good" stuff and do, counter to belief, give two sh*ts about what they do, the outcome of their patients lives, and more.

Living in Fort Collins (many a hippie)... you'd be surprised how many people think these companies should basically give the stuff away, as if it their duty. :rolleyes:

"What I have problems with is stupid bureaucratic agencies like the FDA controlling what does and does not come to market, regulating healthy food choices and supplements as though their meth, and creating the false image that "better living through chemistry" works."

This is unfortunate on both sides. The FDA exists for VERY good reasons. Yes on some things they might go slightly "overboard"...but remember what kind of society we live in. We are our own undoing. The reason thing are SO strict for pharma/biotech is for QIPPS (Quality, Identity, Purity, Potency and Safety). You and I both know we live in a sue happy country (which is one reason why newer drugs are so expensive). The FDA has regulations (which I breathe day to day) we adhere to...and many are there for good reason. Hell, we actually have FDA inspectors on the site I'm working at right now :eek: ONE little thing could cause a company to lose MILLIONS though it might have had NOTHING to do with them.

As far as food goes, yeah they can f*ck themselves. If I want to have a cow in my backyard and get my own milk...or grow my own vegetables I damn well should be able to.

For supplements...I have a love hate relationship with these. I love them because I use them (protein powder, vitamins, etc.). BUT, the moment ANY of these claim to have health benefits...they should have to play by the SAME rules everyone else does (which is where the FDA gets more involved.) Believe me when I say that I've known people within our company who've done work at supplement sites and heard their stories...you want the FDA to have some over site on them :gag:.

I guess it's really all hard to explain unless you've worked in this field for a little while at least.

I'm not saying that all companies are by all means "good" nor is the FDA someone who should have their nose it anything.

What I do mean is that there are many "drug" companies...lumping them into this "evil" bureaucratic world where they all have their hands in the government/FDA/etc. pockets and vice versa is just plain asinine. Do I think kids are over medicated? Yes. Is that the manufactures fault? To me, not any more than the gun/gun manufacturers fault for someone getting shot.

It's the over bearing, want to put my child in a bubble parents as well as many of the doctors to blame. My girlfriend works at a family practice in Fort Collins (the only one in FoCo that serves Medicaid/Medicare patients)...and after hearing about work every night...the companies who make the drug are one of the last people to blame. :doh:

Sorry for the long drawn out response. Working as a consultant in these fields has opened my eyes to a lot of things...some bad, but for the most part good.

Maybe I can 'splain/talk more if yall come out to COFest :D
 
Free rider as pot is sold as a medicine now does the fda regulate it ?

Call me Justin :D

I have friends that grow legally in large amounts and I actually believe it should be FULLY legal...its a fuggin naturally growing plant for christ sakes.

However...once they claim health benefits...they should and need to play by the same rules.

Now since its just technically a grown plant (1/100000000 of the technicality of making a biotech drug)...there's not a lot they *should* have to do.

I'll maybe try a scenario.

You go buy pot to help with some chronic pain. You end up having an adverse reaction (not the most likely with pot but how it gets manufactured possibly could) for some reason, or it just doesn't work.

Well if there was no regulation...you basically SOL. There is no way to trace what batch it came from, and why it might have had no effect. And it turns out your not the only one...several other people had the same reaction/no effect. Your all still SOL besides maybe trying to get a refund from the pot shop.

The FDA sets some regulations/guidelines that the growers/manufacturers need to operate by to make sure what you buy is no only effective, but it is safe, etc.

Now you have "every" reason to believe/be assured that what you buy from the providers will not only work for the health reasons you bought it for, but that you will not have any adverse reactions to the pot. Essentially you can go on about you merry way and get nice and high...life is good :D

Now...lets say something still happens! Well, now that there are regulations in place...you and everyone one else have a leg to stand on. The FDA can come in and give things a look over. If it is found to be negligence on the grower/manufacturer you have legal ground to stand on just like everyone else does in the pharma/biotech/etc. world.

If the grower/manufacturer did EVERYTHING to the tee...then processes can be looked and and if something is found can be made and revised to make sure doesn't happen again (just as things have progessed in every way in most industry). If there is neither of those, and NOTHING can be found (just like in many drug cases) it may just be that you are one of the rare ones that no amount of testing, running, etc. can predict as your biological make-up is just slightly different. Or...maybe your doctor was wrong and prescribed the wrong "strain". In that case...his fault :D

I hope that made at least a little sense, it sometimes is hard to explain why some things are they way they are when it comes to the FDA, ASME, etc.

There are rules that need to get played by by everyone. Whether it's pot or the drug that could cure cancer...things have to be put in place to make sure that it meets QIPPS which I mentioned above.
 
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I will say as far as money goes...which seems to be where this started initially :D ....

Treat it like tobacco and alcohol and tax it when in use for recreation.

If a company claims it can do "x"...well then the government will still get their taxes and the company make profits...but there are going to be a feeeeeeew more hoops to jump through :D
 
Treat it like tobacco and alcohol and tax it when in use for recreation.

Are 'we' going to subsidize it's growth as well and then spend billions trying to get people not to touch the stuff? The tobacco industry drives me crazy...
 
Are 'we' going to subsidize it's growth as well and then spend billions trying to get people not to touch the stuff? The tobacco industry drives me crazy...

You make a good point there :D

I really do disdain crap like that.

Just like how sugar companies are going to be receiving bailout money...yet the government (especially the likes of Bloomberg) try to ban/limit people getting too much of it :rolleyes:
 
Just like how sugar companies are going to be receiving bailout money...yet the government (especially the likes of Bloomberg) try to ban/limit people getting too much of it :rolleyes:

You beat me to it... the idiot feds (USDA) are now buying 400,000 TONS of sugar so as to create some capital for sugar producers to pay back subsidized federal loans -- you're reading it right, WE the taxpayer are buying their product so as to provide the sugar industry with sufficient cash to pay the loans WE the taxpayer made to them. They are going to pay the interest on federal loans with federal funds for sugar the feds won't use. AND, those subsidies wouldn't be "necessary" if the federal government didn't drive down the price of high fructose corn syrup so that sugar can't compete in the market place by subsidizing the corn industry. You simply can't make this shite up.:doh:
 
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