GUNS & AMMO

Do you think the gov is trying to disarm us in preparation of defaulting on our national debt? Back in September the national debt reached 16 trillion.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/09/04/who-do-owe-most-that-16-trillion-to-hint-it-isnt-china/

Fully two-thirds of the national debt is owed to the U.S. government, American investors and future retirees, through the Social Security Trust Fund and pension plans for civil service workers and military personnel.

Or maybe in preparation for a major economic down turn? Do they think we will be plunged into another great depression?

​
 
Think Makita would send a letter like that? I think he's a little too much of a politician, but :dunno:
 
I was pleasantly surprised that Makita was not only sponsoring ccl firearms training for teachers, but that he further announced he'd waive all ccl fees for teachers seeking to get one --I've always viewed him as too much politician as well, and maybe he is, but if he's a good one he also senses which way the wind is currently blowing...
 
I knew him when he was an officer at the Metro Jail. He was a cocky little shit. Remarkably he and Robbie King became Sgts at the same time, while Lt. King was running Metro. It's a family affair in the county.
 
Good stuff -- I particularly like that he alluded to how the State grants a monopoly on force by restricting access to defensive weapons. It alludes to the fact that the State, government itself, is nothing BUT a monopoly on force. The state creates law so as to be able to compel you (ultimately at the barrel of a gun) to do what it wishes, whether paying taxes, obeying arbitrary speed limits, or feeling you up in an airport. Free people are not compelled by force -- as the author says, we are compelled by reason.
 
Just watched Obamas speech on Gun Control.

What really has me frustrated is it is clear he is trying to get backers on this that are emotional an uneducated.

He put it as a choice you need to make...allow guns and support the NRA, or have people stop getting shot.

WTF? Obviously the emotional and uneducated will say "well heck, I am for people no longer getting shot in schools" and they are off to vote for gun control.

Now, I certainly hope that no other mass shootings will happen. Who knows, maybe these gun laws will suddenly result in no other shootings ever happening. I just have this feeling that there just might possibly still be a shooting.

He kept referring to the Newtown shooting. He made it seem that if you think the Newtown shooting should not be allowed to happen again that you should vote for gun control. Is everybody so blinded by emotion that they forget that the kid had gotten the guns illegally? THEY WERE STOLEN! Regardless of what gun laws exist it wouldn't change that situation. They would have to make a law that says stealing guns is illegal to prevent that one..oh wait...
 
in4aride said:
I cant find a legitimate breakdown of what he E.O.s were. Anything worth noting?
Click to expand...
http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2013/01/16/obama-to-announce-gun-control-proposals-shortly/

These orders are in addition to laws that Obama wants Congress to pass. Here, according to the White House, are what the 23 executive actions will do, without congressional approval:

1. "Issue a presidential memorandum to require federal agencies to make relevant data available to the federal background check system."
2. "Address unnecessary legal barriers, particularly relating to the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act, that may prevent states from making information available to the background check system."
3. "Improve incentives for states to share information with the background check system."
4. "Direct the attorney general to review categories of individuals prohibited from having a gun to make sure dangerous people are not slipping through the cracks."
5. "Propose rulemaking to give law enforcement the ability to run a full background check on an individual before returning a seized gun."
6. "Publish a letter from ATF to federally licensed gun dealers providing guidance on how to run background checks for private sellers."
7. "Launch a national safe and responsible gun ownership campaign."
8. "Review safety standards for gun locks and gun safes (Consumer Product Safety Commission)."
9. "Issue a presidential Memorandum to require federal law enforcement to trace guns recovered in criminal investigations."
10. "Release a DOJ report analyzing information on lost and stolen guns and make it widely available to law enforcement."
11. "Nominate an ATF director."
12. "Provide law enforcement, first responders, and school officials with proper training for active shooter situations."
13. "Maximize enforcement efforts to prevent gun violence and prosecute gun crime."
14. "Issue a presidential memorandum directing the Centers for Disease Control to research the causes and prevention of gun violence."
15. "Direct the attorney general to issue a report on the availability and most effective use of new gun safety technologies and challenge the private sector to develop innovative technologies."
16. "Clarify that the Affordable Care Act does not prohibit doctors asking their patients about guns in their homes."
17. "Release a letter to health care providers clarifying that no federal law prohibits them from reporting threats of violence to law enforcement authorities."
18. "Provide incentives for schools to hire school resource officers."
19. "Develop model emergency response plans for schools, houses of worship and institutions of higher education."
20. "Release a letter to state health officials clarifying the scope of mental health services that Medicaid plans must cover."
21. "Finalize regulations clarifying essential health benefits and parity requirements within ACA exchanges."
22. "Commit to finalizing mental health parity regulations."
23. "Launch a national dialogue led by Secretaries Sebelius and Duncan on mental health."
 
Last edited:
thanks
There are some things in there that dont seem bad. Training first responders and teachers. (although I am unsure why they listed police, i would hope they had already been trained)


Some of the stuff though I am curious what else they are going to tack on to those ideas. IE the checks before returning a seized fire arm.
 
I've taken the liberty of inserting the common-language/non-newspeak versions, below :D

WTF_LOL said:
http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2013/01/16/obama-to-announce-gun-control-proposals-shortly/

These orders are in addition to laws that Obama wants Congress to pass. Here, according to the White House, are what the 23 executive actions will do, without congressional approval:

1. "Issue a presidential memorandum to require federal agencies to make relevant data available to the federal background check system." Same inter-agency information sharing that post-9/11 was supposed to occur... the CIA and FBI hate each other and will not share information, no matter what the objective.
2. "Address unnecessary legal barriers, particularly relating to the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act, that may prevent states from making information available to the background check system." Ya know that HIPPA privacy statment you always get from your doctor? -- fugitaboutit! Your health, particularly the moving-target-mentally-ill definition is the ATF's business...
3. "Improve incentives for states to share information with the background check system." Privacy? Fugitabouit - keep in mind the state maintained lists of ccl's when considering this point as well (and "incentive" means to dangle federal funds like a friggin carrot).
4. "Direct the attorney general to review categories of individuals prohibited from having a gun to make sure dangerous people are not slipping through the cracks." I wonder what new "categories" of "dangerous people" might be developed? The new-mentally ill? Remember in Missouri 2 years ago when official LEO memos dictated that anyone with a Ron Paul sticker on their car might be a "right wing terrorist"...
5. "Propose rulemaking to give law enforcement the ability to run a full background check on an individual before returning a seized gun." Seriously? This means that you, lawfully open carrying, get stopped and the officer asks to secure your weapon during your encounter for his own safety. you comply. Now your weapon is not returned until they have completed a "full background check" on you... hopefully you don't fall into one of those "categories" of "dangerous people", like "people who open carry"...
6. "Publish a letter from ATF to federally licensed gun dealers providing guidance on how to run background checks for private sellers." Ah, paper, merely to imply that FFL's don't know how to run a check and guns are "slipping by" all the time to "dangerous people"... obviously not the case.
7. "Launch a national safe and responsible gun ownership campaign." LOL.I got nothing on this one, just rhetoric.
8. "Review safety standards for gun locks and gun safes (Consumer Product Safety Commission)." Implies these devices don't work, and millions are dying because of them, as well as creating the impression that turning your gun into a club makes you more safe... to quote Rooster Cogburn, "if ain't loaded, it don't do much good" -- same for trigger access in an emergency
9. "Issue a presidential Memorandum to require federal law enforcement to trace guns recovered in criminal investigations." Like they don't already? please.
10. "Release a DOJ report analyzing information on lost and stolen guns and make it widely available to law enforcement." Wonder if it will include guns "lost" to mexican drug cartels...
11. "Nominate an ATF director." Can't we just get it over with and call him a "gun czar"?
12. "Provide law enforcement, first responders, and school officials with proper training for active shooter situations." Much like usual government training to the masses in robbery situations: "be unarmed, be submissive, don't challenge, don't endanger officer safety, recite the official line after the fact... if you survive"
13. "Maximize enforcement efforts to prevent gun violence and prosecute gun crime." i.e. expand "pre-crime" arrests of "dangerous people"
14. "Issue a presidential memorandum directing the Centers for Disease Control to research the causes and prevention of gun violence." Well, the CDC is doing such a bang up job preventing DISEASE, I'm sure they'll knock this one out of the park... anyone else concerned that "gun violence", and perhaps possession, would be investigated as a "disease"?
15. "Direct the attorney general to issue a report on the availability and most effective use of new gun safety technologies and challenge the private sector to develop innovative technologies." More on those newfangled "clubs"
16. "Clarify that the Affordable Care Act does not prohibit doctors asking their patients about guns in their homes." Love that info collection on "dangerous people" -- great if you go get your "free" physical, and while you're turning your head to cough you get put on a terrorist watch list...
17. "Release a letter to health care providers clarifying that no federal law prohibits them from reporting threats of violence to law enforcement authorities." That moving target definition of "mentally ill" is going to expand, and expand, and expand... until only a LEO cleared by the Gov and "properly trained" is suitable to defend themselves (and the rest of us nutbags, since we'll be disarmed
18. "Provide incentives for schools to hire school resource officers." My wife is a teacher -- there is not a school (in this state) without a resource officer already... wonder what "incentives" they have in mind anyways.
19. "Develop model emergency response plans for schools, houses of worship and institutions of higher education." Again, "duck, cover, don't fight back, wait till the perp off's himself, then the police will come. good luck"
20. "Release a letter to state health officials clarifying the scope of mental health services that Medicaid plans must cover." Do I even need to point it out, again?
21. "Finalize regulations clarifying essential health benefits and parity requirements within ACA exchanges." and again...
22. "Commit to finalizing mental health parity regulations." and again...
23. "Launch a national dialogue led by Secretaries Sebelius and Duncan on mental health." and, finally, again...
Click to expand...

I apologize for my sarcasm (not really), but some things that go unsaid simply need to be said. :peace:
 
I think that is the problem. I believe this really to be misleading. I think if everything suggested by Obama was one sided and aggressive, there would be little chance of it surviving.

Don't get me wrong, I am all for figuring out a way to control violence. I just don't believe waiving liberty for security is the answer. Of course it is easy to say, these are small inconveniences to accept in order to preserve safety. The problem becomes when the emotion is forgotten and five years down the road the next event happens and they chip away at a few more rights. This repeats until generations down the road we have squeezed ourselves into this box with very little rights and all in the name of safety.

They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
Benjamin Franklin
Click to expand...
It behooves every man who values liberty of conscience for himself, to resist invasions of it in the case of others: or their case may, by change of circumstances, become his own.
Thomas Jefferson
Click to expand...
Liberty has never come from Government. Liberty has always come from the subjects of it. The history of liberty is a history of limitations of governmental power, not the increase of it.
Woodrow Wilson
Click to expand...
So my concern are not these particular items, it is maintaining liberties. It is not increase in govment control that will prevent violence. It is us, the people, making a change. Increasing laws will only reduce our freedoms and grow the governments ability to control, unchecked. If we want to make a change in violence we ought to consider a method constructed by our efforts and utilizing the rights already provided to us
 
Chris, you hit exactly what I meant. How expanding and involving are those things going to be. The OC idea was pretty much what i was picturing. Funny he somewhat mentioned the battle getting this done is between congress and the people. That just seems odd :rolleyes:
 
Same here in Indiana, nothing (shotgun, rifle or handgun).
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Bent
The BEST Medicine
Replies
7
Views
186
Nimrod
Nimrod
S
Frame work
Replies
1
Views
222
Evan03
E
P
1999 XJ is getting the best of me. No Start.
Replies
13
Views
244
Anak
Anak
U
1993 Jeep XJ
Replies
3
Views
219
Unclewolverine
U
W
Bogging in final gear
Replies
1
Views
147
Dragonslayer
D
Back
Top