- Location
- Castro Valley,CA
No updates at this time, the closure is due to a lawsuit and the Judge sets the timeline, try are no due dates. We can plan on trails affected by this to be close till next year.
ElDorado Forest Trail Closures
- Thread starter Mike1331
- Start date
KTMqdracer
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Lodi, CA
Something I didn't even think of until an ATV trip this last weekend, (and experienced it first hand) is that some of the trails that were closed are access roads to other trails that I ride. Thus eliminating even more places to go...
- Location
- Reno, Nevada
I forget if I read it here or on Pirate or even one of our local forums, but that boundary line would be the southern water crossing. The trail south of that (to Hermit Valley) is Stanislaus NF. So in theory we should be able to drive in and up to the water crossing or wherever the gate is, turn around and go back. I've been crossing my fingers hoping that this is the case (best case scenario for now) but until we hear from someone who has driven it to confirm where the gate actually is we won't know for sure.
edit: found one of the references. see post #430 http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1055643&page=18
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But what about the other end? (Blue Lakes)
It burns me knowing WE spent the money on a pointless gate. BTW, how did they get the material in to build the gate? Further, when was this gate built, because the lawsuit wasn't decided until this past winter right?
Hmm... I'm beginning to detect a reading on the BS meter. How and when did they build this gate are the questions.
It burns me knowing WE spent the money on a pointless gate. BTW, how did they get the material in to build the gate? Further, when was this gate built, because the lawsuit wasn't decided until this past winter right?
Hmm... I'm beginning to detect a reading on the BS meter. How and when did they build this gate are the questions.
There is supposed to be a gate at the border of the Stanislaus and El Dorado forests, about a mile in. From what I gathered from being on the trail (Deer Valley) and talking to the people on the trail today, there is no gate at all.
I wheeled in just under a mile from the Highway 4 side today, making it just past our usual lunch spot at the top of the first ridge. GPS says we turned around .9 miles in. On my way back down, we stopped and talked to some people working their way up. I picked their brains a bit about the trail closures and they said that they talked to a Forest Service ranger at the base of the trail who was putting up a sign (below). She said that she didn't know much about the closures, but apparently said they aren't really enforcing the closure yet.
I met a guy with a Suzuki at the Gate Keeper who was planning on going all the way through. He bombed through the trail and I never saw him again after we talked about the closures at the gate keeper. If there really was a gate 1 mile in, I would have caught him on his way back down.
Heres the sign the FS lady put up. Ill give it 2 days before someone tears it down.
I wheeled in just under a mile from the Highway 4 side today, making it just past our usual lunch spot at the top of the first ridge. GPS says we turned around .9 miles in. On my way back down, we stopped and talked to some people working their way up. I picked their brains a bit about the trail closures and they said that they talked to a Forest Service ranger at the base of the trail who was putting up a sign (below). She said that she didn't know much about the closures, but apparently said they aren't really enforcing the closure yet.
I met a guy with a Suzuki at the Gate Keeper who was planning on going all the way through. He bombed through the trail and I never saw him again after we talked about the closures at the gate keeper. If there really was a gate 1 mile in, I would have caught him on his way back down.
Heres the sign the FS lady put up. Ill give it 2 days before someone tears it down.
I knew it! My BS Meter hardly ever is wrong!
Think about it. The order just came down, the trail has only been clear of snow a short period of time, plus unless they Helo the material in how are the going to get it in a mile on what has become a fairly difficult trail? No, I think if they put up a gate it will be at the entrance. But there's no order governing the SNF so... what then?
Guess where I'm going this weekend?
Think about it. The order just came down, the trail has only been clear of snow a short period of time, plus unless they Helo the material in how are the going to get it in a mile on what has become a fairly difficult trail? No, I think if they put up a gate it will be at the entrance. But there's no order governing the SNF so... what then?
Guess where I'm going this weekend?
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Just as a little disclaimer, I never completed a full mile in to the trail. But from what I heard and saw on the trail today, and from multiple rumors I have heard over the past few weeks, I think it is fair to assume that there is no gate on the trail.
BUT just because there isn't a gate doesn't mean the other 6 miles of the trail are fair game. If you do end up wheeling Deer Valley next weekend, I would suggest sticking to the 1st mile in from the HWY 4 side. Thats where all the fun stuff is anyways
BUT just because there isn't a gate doesn't mean the other 6 miles of the trail are fair game. If you do end up wheeling Deer Valley next weekend, I would suggest sticking to the 1st mile in from the HWY 4 side. Thats where all the fun stuff is anyways
- Location
- Reno, Nevada
That is one problem with ordering these trails closed - it is nearly impossible to enforce. For one trail putting up two gates should not be THAT hard to accomplish however I would guess it would take between $1,000 to $2,000 to put in each gate. On the conservative side ($1,000) that equals $84,000 to put up two gates per trail for all 42 trails. Obviously they don't have the manpower to do that immediately and guess who gets to pay for it?
Even then, there are some people who will bypass gates, etc. Again nearly impossible to enforce. All I recommend is that we honor the closure and not drive around gates, tear down signs, etc. I don't like the fact these trails are ordered closed, but I don't want
to be blamed for not honoring the law and potentially causing further damage to both the trail and our cause.
That being said, I see no reason we can't drive the trail a mile in and or to any supposed gate.
Even then, there are some people who will bypass gates, etc. Again nearly impossible to enforce. All I recommend is that we honor the closure and not drive around gates, tear down signs, etc. I don't like the fact these trails are ordered closed, but I don't want
to be blamed for not honoring the law and potentially causing further damage to both the trail and our cause.That being said, I see no reason we can't drive the trail a mile in and or to any supposed gate.
blondejoncherokee
NAXJA Member
- Location
- sacramento
That is one problem with ordering these trails closed - it is nearly impossible to enforce. For one trail putting up two gates should not be THAT hard to accomplish however I would guess it would take between $1,000 to $2,000 to put in each gate. On the conservative side ($1,000) that equals $84,000 to put up two gates per trail for all 42 trails. Obviously they don't have the manpower to do that immediately and guess who gets to pay for it?
Even then, there are some people who will bypass gates, etc. Again nearly impossible to enforce. All I recommend is that we honor the closure and not drive around gates, tear down signs, etc. I don't like the fact these trails are ordered closed, but I don't want
That being said, I see no reason we can't drive the trail a mile in and or to any supposed gate.
i would imagine that the forest service has a contractor/vendor that does the work. I bet those damn gates cost at least 5000$ a piece
In real dollars yes 5K. But in todays world 5k in contractor talk doesn't even start the truck. I'm not talking your local guy who builds houses either. I'm talking about real contractors.
Your looking at 20K MINIMUM, per gate. And that's the LOW bidder. Think about all that's involved, concrete, forming, material, labor, etc. Not only that but how do solve the transportation issue? These gates won't exactly be "acessable" will they? What contractor has a vehicle capable of getting back there with the material?
I'm not saying it can't be done. But it's going to cost bucks. Which is why when they do close the trail, it will be gated at Hwy 4.
Did anyone ever think how, unless the gate it, they are going to enforce this? Like eric states, it's going to be impossible. Think about the average 4wheeler, he doesn't surf Pirate or. He doesn't read the paper. How in the heck would he know the trails closed? Unless it's posted or gated, this is UN-enforcable.
Your looking at 20K MINIMUM, per gate. And that's the LOW bidder. Think about all that's involved, concrete, forming, material, labor, etc. Not only that but how do solve the transportation issue? These gates won't exactly be "acessable" will they? What contractor has a vehicle capable of getting back there with the material?
I'm not saying it can't be done. But it's going to cost bucks. Which is why when they do close the trail, it will be gated at Hwy 4.
Did anyone ever think how, unless the gate it, they are going to enforce this? Like eric states, it's going to be impossible. Think about the average 4wheeler, he doesn't surf Pirate or
. He doesn't read the paper. How in the heck would he know the trails closed? Unless it's posted or gated, this is UN-enforcable.
blondejoncherokee
NAXJA Member
- Location
- sacramento
Yes thats true. the average joe will have no idea if there are not gates up. Thats crazy. how do they even expect us to know what is going on ? 20K a gate at 42 gates turns this trail closure more expensive than they probably every imagined, almost a million dollars.
it also doesn't make sense to spend 20k$ on gate that will only be up for one year, so it makes even more sense they are trying to make this permanent if they actually put up legitimate gates. that sucks so bad. if they do it, and then it gets over turned after the impact analysis, then that means the tax payers just wasted a million bucks due to Karen, and we all know she doesn't give a damn about the frogs, the basis of her lawsuit.
it also doesn't make sense to spend 20k$ on gate that will only be up for one year, so it makes even more sense they are trying to make this permanent if they actually put up legitimate gates. that sucks so bad. if they do it, and then it gets over turned after the impact analysis, then that means the tax payers just wasted a million bucks due to Karen, and we all know she doesn't give a damn about the frogs, the basis of her lawsuit.
- Location
- Dublin California
It doesnt take a gate to make the area legaly closed. A simple "closed" sign of some sort with the court order and case number is all the authotities need to legaly keep you out of the area. Like said previously, I dont think eldo county forest has the money to put up gates but signs are cheap, so keep your eyes open.
I forgot to mention that the people I talked to on the trail said the forest service lady told them that ATV's and UTV's (primarily side by sides) are doing most of the damage. I'm guessing that they see a nice flat meadow and get the urge to slide around.
IIRC, it was a side by side that tore up the meadow on slick rock as well
IIRC, it was a side by side that tore up the meadow on slick rock as well
The way I look at this situation is this; Let's say the meadow was tore up, just for arguments sake. What percentage does this trail, being all of maybe 100' across, take up of the entire forest? Maybe .01 percent? I mean how many sq ft is the entire forest? A billion? The trail being 100' by approx 8 miles is (someone please do the math!)? I know it's not very much when compared to the entire forest!!!!!!!
If we damage .01 percent fo the forest, is that acceptable? I say yes it is!
BTW- Interestingly doesn't all of the Highways run thru meadows? Are they considering closing I-80, Hwy 50, 88 and Hwy 4? I think not. Maybe someone should ask Karen if her house is in a meadow. I bet it is!
I'm done rambling, for now.
If we damage .01 percent fo the forest, is that acceptable? I say yes it is!
BTW- Interestingly doesn't all of the Highways run thru meadows? Are they considering closing I-80, Hwy 50, 88 and Hwy 4? I think not. Maybe someone should ask Karen if her house is in a meadow. I bet it is!
I'm done rambling, for now.
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