DPG Belly Skid Vs. JCR Belly Skid

[jcroffroad]

One question that seems to not have been addressed. Are either skids compatible with frame stiffeners?

We have a little bit of space worked into our skids, so it will be a tight fit, but do able! (I am not sure about DPG, I'll let Dirk answer).

 

[FlexdXJ]

Some of my thoughts:


No it doesn't. Sleeving the uni-body would allow the bolts to be tightened tighter, but that's not necessary at all in this application.
Of course, a customer could sleeve their own uni-body easily enough, whether it's ours or yours.


Yep. But they don't have to be relocated- just popped out of their mounting clips long enough to drill the holes. Then, just remount them when done with minimal if any bending to fit. Easy enough.

Another point to be made here. I'm assuming the JCR skid is normal mild steel?
We use higher grade 50,000psi steel in all of our Rock Attack Products, so we can achieve the strength of a much thicker skid with less weight.
We avoided using 1/4" steel for that reason. Personally, I like to keep the weight down on my XJ's anywhere I can if it doesn't sacrifice strength.

I also prefer through bolts and nuts over self-tappers or even nutserts when mounting in a uni-body for the strongest mounting points.
No question our bolts mounting through the crossmember will provide a much stronger mounting area than the self-tappers on the front of the JCR skid.
Clamping the skid to the crossmember is what helps "unitize" that entire structure together and creates a more solid rigid foundation- as opposed to the skid kind of floating on the bottom of the crossmember.
YMMV.
(I'd be afraid of catching the rear edge of that skid on a ledge I'd just dropped over if I had to back up again.)

As for cat protection and clearance- If you could extend the ENTIRE full belly skid rearward until it covered the cat, you would see why a skid like that would be ridiculous. It would have to be divided (weakened) to clear the driveshaft and it would eat up a LOT of ground clearance under the belly for no reason. It would also be a behemoth and weigh a ton. I don't worry much about the cat as it's located farther rearward towards the wheel, which offers it more natural protection than being in the center of the jeep. I haven't destroyed mine, and we wheel in big rocks.
A skid that covered the cat only would also suffer from extreme heat transfer from the cat.
That can cause the skid and the uni-body above the cat to rust much more quickly if it holds heat in that small area.

I also don't clearance our skids for cat clearance. Any relief cuts or dips away from a straight rear edge create points that are easier to bend. That's why I don't like the t-case skids that mount on one side, covering the t-case in a triangulated mounting situation. The rear edge is easier to bend and it doesn't protect the entire crossmember.
I prefer a straight across rear edge for max strength and rigidity.
Guys who run the big round cats can replace them like Wink did, but I know for a fact that a good exhaust shop can make those fit with minimal cost.
The earlier cats usually don't require any exhaust mods at all.
Covering the front of the cat alone actually offers a great functional level of protection, as it allows the obstacle to slide past the front mounting point of the cat and over the body of it.

As for copying- no worries here.
I have a bumper in mind that looks almost identical to the JCR unit- kind of freaky how close it is to their design, but hey- there's only so many ways you can build a bumper, right?
I think it should sell for about $10.00 less than theirs...

I don't like bolts through a frame or uni-body that don't tighten against a sleeve. If they can even be properly torqued, they don't stay that way for long because the stretch of the bolt is trying to crush the tube/uniframe etc. Some people like through bolts, some trust nutserts. I agree if one wants to go through the trouble of through bolts and sleeves they can do so with either skid.


Another difference of opinion and design. Unless your willing to properly bend and attach the lines out of the way, there is a chance you'll have a hard line rubbing against a bolt or a nut. Many people are willing. A lot of long arm kits lack in this department BTW.


What grade are you using? We use 1010 HR with a temper pass. Tensile strength is ~72,500 PSI. Your right .250 is heaver than .188; to some people this is a concern, to some it isn't. Good thing they have two choices. What does yours weigh BTW, ours is 47 pounds.


I believe we both clamp our skids to the cross member. We add the front bolts to locate the skid tight against the front. Like our sliders these self tapping bolts are typically loaded in sheer, rarely in tension. They torque well and work fine.


Another choice for people to make. Do you want to do exhaust mods and get complete strength across the back of the skid, or do you want bolt on and sacrifice some bending strength for that cutout. The .250 steel helps in this application, also we have a bend near the center of the cutout which adds strength as well.


The world needs choices. The are lots of XJ bumpers out there, if you want to bring some more to the market and give people choices, have at it.


You made a whole post about how you think your skid is better than ours, then you complain about it costing less? Would you rather we make it $50 less? Or should it cost more? Nice jab. :nono:

Hey, Hey Break it up you two. I like both but i know anything JCR can take lots of abuse. Ask my Sliders! You both make nice stuff and I'd buy from both. Glad to see two companies whoring their product in one thread though! :cheers:

 

[winkosmosis]

We have a little bit of space worked into our skids, so it will be a tight fit, but do able! (I am not sure about DPG, I'll let Dirk answer).

The DPG fits snugly, at least on my XJ. It's snug enough that it can almost support itself. You'd have to make a cutout for a stiffener on the outside.

 

[DPG]

Our skid may or may not work with a 242 t-case. Depends on how low it hangs in the vehicle and that varies. I can tell a person how to know if they call.
We have not designed a skid specifically for the 242 applications.

Whether the skid will work with frame stiffeners depends on the brand of frame stiffeners and how they mount.
Personally, I'm not a fan of frame stiffeners. Many of them won't work with certain rocker protection, and (in my mind) rocker protection is MUCH more important.

Also, adding bumpers, gas tank & belly skids, hitches and rocker protection all add greatly to the rigidity of the uni-body and these are much more functional mods. I don't want to beat up on somebody's frame stiffeners, but I just don't see the need...

As for a t-case drop, our skid will work with a small drop, but I didn't design them for a large drop as I feel that's the wrong way to deal with vibes.

 

[FlexdXJ]

Our skid may or may not work with a 242 t-case. Depends on how low it hangs in the vehicle and that varies. I can tell a person how to know if they call.
We have not designed a skid specifically for the 242 applications.

Whether the skid will work with frame stiffeners depends on the brand of frame stiffeners and how they mount.
Personally, I'm not a fan of frame stiffeners. Many of them won't work with certain rocker protection, and (in my mind) rocker protection is MUCH more important.

Also, adding bumpers, gas tank & belly skids, hitches and rocker protection all add greatly to the rigidity of the uni-body and these are much more functional mods. I don't want to beat up on somebody's frame stiffeners, but I just don't see the need...

As for a t-case drop, our skid will work with a small drop, but I didn't design them for a large drop as I feel that's the wrong way to deal with vibes.

Will they work with something like a Rustys crossmember?

 

[DPG]

Will they work with something like a Rustys crossmember?

I don't think so.
Our skid is designed to form fit the bottom of the factory crossmember.

Rusty's crossmember is a different size/shape, IIRC...

 

[winkosmosis]

Our skid may or may not work with a 242 t-case. Depends on how low it hangs in the vehicle and that varies. I can tell a person how to know if they call.
We have not designed a skid specifically for the 242 applications.

Whether the skid will work with frame stiffeners depends on the brand of frame stiffeners and how they mount.
Personally, I'm not a fan of frame stiffeners. Many of them won't work with certain rocker protection, and (in my mind) rocker protection is MUCH more important.

Also, adding bumpers, gas tank & belly skids, hitches and rocker protection all add greatly to the rigidity of the uni-body and these are much more functional mods. I don't want to beat up on somebody's frame stiffeners, but I just don't see the need...

As for a t-case drop, our skid will work with a small drop, but I didn't design them for a large drop as I feel that's the wrong way to deal with vibes.

With the addition of a hitch, front skid, and DPG skid my XJ has become stiffer. It used to creak going over speed bumps, but it doesn't anymore. I can't say which made the biggest difference.

 

[DPG]

Belly skids, gas tank skids, bumpers and hitches tie a rigid part between both sides of the vehicle, effectively strengthening the entire uni-body structure and making it more rigid.

A good set of rock rails make the body more rigid too, as they bolt to multiple points on the body and pinch seam, tying that entire area together.

 

[yossarian19]

Belly skids, gas tank skids, bumpers and hitches tie a rigid part between both sides of the vehicle, effectively strengthening the entire uni-body structure and making it more rigid.

A good set of rock rails make the body more rigid too, as they bolt to multiple points on the body and pinch seam, tying that entire area together.

I know DPG isn't a big fan of frame stiffeners but I'd think you could get a lot more stiffening if you welded rock rails to them and to the pinch seam, instead of using the self-tappers to fasten rails to the unibody as most companies do.
Or you could go wtih the Detours system if you have the loot.

 

[fyrfytr1717]

Is there a DPG option for the 242 case? Are 231 and/or 242 versions in stock and ready to ship? I believe the website mentions calling about the 242, but Im too lazy and would love to share the answer with all.

Our skid may or may not work with a 242 t-case. Depends on how low it hangs in the vehicle and that varies. I can tell a person how to know if they call.
We have not designed a skid specifically for the 242 applications.

I have a DPG Belly Skid and a 242 TC. I also have the coffee can CA catalytic converter. Here's how I made it all work. Not the solution for everyone as it does steepen your rear driveshaft angle a bit, but with a SYE and the proper shims, it works even in conjunction with my 5.5" lift.

Raising a 242

I've been meaning to mention that thread to you for quite some time now Dirk. Don't know if you care for the idea or not, but I figured you could mention it to your customers as an option when they call regarding 242's. I've been running it for over a year now and have had zero problems with it.

 

[DPG]

Hey- Thanks!
If you aren't having any problems with an RE 5.5" kit, then most everyone ought to be good.
Personally, I wouldn't be running a t-case drop with a lift over 3" anyway.

It is nice to maintain a nice flat skidplate bottom. I know a curved add-on isn't too bad, but you can still get hung up on something like that at times.

Funny- I've never owned an XJ with a 242 case. I prefer the 231.
I'm buying another XJ today. It has a 242...:laugh3:

 

[Phil]

Fawk you both, I bought a full belly pan from Brain Harmon at Cherokee Nation in like 2004, DPG isn't the first one anyway. .!. .!.

 

[ktm racer 419]

yes I am bringing this thread back from the dead

We have a little bit of space worked into our skids, so it will be a tight fit, but do able! (I am not sure about DPG, I'll let Dirk answer).

Now many frame stiffeners are 10 guage(approx 1/8" thick) I prefer the design of the ruffstuff stiffeners which are 3/16" thick. are these a tight fit on the 10 guage or 3/16" thick stiffys?

Whether the skid will work with frame stiffeners depends on the brand of frame stiffeners and how they mount.
Personally, I'm not a fan of frame stiffeners. Many of them won't work with certain rocker protection, and (in my mind) rocker protection is MUCH more important.

Also, adding bumpers, gas tank & belly skids, hitches and rocker protection all add greatly to the rigidity of the uni-body and these are much more functional mods. I don't want to beat up on somebody's frame stiffeners, but I just don't see the need...

First off, a few years ago I had your belly skid and LOVED IT, a friend of mine is currently running it on his rig and loves it. But my framerails ended up getting beat up, pounded flat and bent every which way and the jeep was eventually retired. The next jeep i wheeled stock once and the rails were pretty much toast, but it was worth throwing some stiffeners on it (tnt customs, 3/16" thick) and the dpg skid wouldnt fit so i sold it and made my own crossmember/skid.

Now fast forward to my third rig. I am running 3/16" thick stiffeners and have been cutting and welding metal for the past week and am getting kinda tired of picking the grey/metallic, abrasive cutting wheel boogers out of my nose, as well as my slag burns are finally healing, and I would love to just buy something, bolt it on and wheel with confidence.

So here is my question to you; For those of us who DO see the need for frame stiffeners,why not offer an option a little wider for us? If it's a pain in the sack to stock 2 types of skids, one a little bit wider and probably not as much of a popular product, then disregard this message. If you offered that, you would have my money by now.



Unrelated to this thread, but to please all the tnt/treks fanboys. I would have the tnt skid, but I am not a fan of running ANY bolts on the bottom of my rails, and the sheer size of the "drain holes", probably a non-issue to many, but It's my rig and I don't want any of that. oh and the price.

 

[DPG]

Well, skidplate production is based on demand.

In my experience, and at the risk of offending some, I just don't see that many people who want to run a belly skid and stiffeners. I'm one of them.
I find my XJ to be plenty stiff when equipped with a gas tank skid, belly skid and rock sliders.

JMO...

 

[ktm racer 419]

Well, skidplate production is based on demand.

In my experience, and at the risk of offending some, I just don't see that many people who want to run a belly skid and stiffeners. I'm one of them.
I find my XJ to be plenty stiff when equipped with a gas tank skid, belly skid and rock sliders.

JMO...

I understand the demand won't be as great.

Just suggesting making an ever so slightly wider skid as an option.


Also, it isn't a matter of body stiffness many of us use the stiffeners for, it's to keep them from getting destroyed, making a more solid foundation for things like sliders, cages, suspension mounts, crossmembers, bumpstops,limit straps and what have you not.

Everyone has an opinion, some people just have different opinions on what thier rig could benefit from. Not every jeep is going to be built to your specifications.

 

[DPG]

Understood.

 

[2.5turbo]

Not a single person reported a personal experience with the JCR skid.
I started with a 4.5" lift w/ 2" transfer case drop and now I'm up to 6.5" w/ 2" transfer case drop.

I drove over a partially buried tree and set the body weight on the rear part of the skid with the cutout for the cat. It didn't mind one bit. I've also squarely ran the crossmember and skid into a rock and only left little scratches. I've wheeled my 91 doorless and that was bad decision. Honestly having any skid will help but frame stiffners is the correct route.

The only thing I don't like is the nutsert 3 bolts per side. Yes they work just fine. I've twisted my rig so much I only have the middle bolt on the driver side left and it's only half way threaded in. On the passenger side I've got the front and rear tight like they should be.

 

[Rob Mayercik]

I have to agree with 2.5Turbo on the nutserts - I've run the JCR belly pan for a couple years now, and I have to say that at the time of purchase, the nutsert mounting was a deciding factor for me - was more within my skill set than through-drilling the frame. One thing I noticed as I installed it was that the sides seemed to be leaned outwards; as I tightened up the frame bolts I was drawing the sides of the pan into the sides of the framerails. This undoubtedly put some additional tension on the nutserts. I will admit that I had some trouble with the nutserts; some didn't seem to be big enough to fill the holes (even though I used the drill bit size specified in the instructions), and some were spinning even after tightening them in.

That aside, it's served me very well and continues to do so, but I have had some problems with the nutserts (quite possibly because of my own lack of skill in installation). I've actually on two occasions landed on it hard enough to pop all of the passenger-side ones out of the frame on me. After the first incident I ordered a new hardware kit and put it back on, but back in 2014 (with my Jeep exactly as it shows in my signature below) I succeeded in actually deforming both the pan and the crossmember in one shot:

I came down on a rock, hard enough to sheer off the transmission dipstick tube and shatter my (already beat-up) downpipe. At the same time, I blew all three passenger-side nutserts out of the frame, and almost completely removed the passenger-side bend in the plate; on top of that, I pushed that spot on the transmission crossmember up nearly an inch, which I suspect was the final straw in bending my front driveshaft. Needless to say, I won "Most Thrashed" at NACFest 2014.

I ended up taking the Jeep to a guy to reinstall the plate and reconstruct the exhaust for lack of time. In the process, he replaced the nutserts with big, beefy bolts into plates welded onto the frame, but he said he had to put the bend back into the plate to follow the crossmember, and it took some doing in the press to manage it. Hopefully nothing short of an atomic bomb will pop that sucker loose now.

Even given that, I still consider the JCR plate to be money very well spent - I'm sure the incident that bent it would have left my transmission or t-case in pieces if it hadn't been there.