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DPG Belly Skid Vs. JCR Belly Skid

I will get a hardware kit together on Monday for you. It consists of 6 side frame bolts using nutserts that you crush into the frame. The three front crossember bolts are self tappers and then two long countersunk bolts that go through the entire crossmember and using locking nuts. Total of 11 fasteners.
 
My DPG used self tapping bolts which looks like they have done away with and went to the thru-rail bolts. Self tapping strip out over time if over tighten. Didnt take much to do that. I would say thru-rail and drain holes would make it the perfect belly skid.
 
The only way to go all the way through would require putting sleeves in. On the driveside it would require moving the brakeline hardlines.


that is a big pain in the balls. i had to do that with the crok steering plate.

if i do get a skid its going to this one, thanks JCR
 
You couldn't go wrong with either of these skid's I would go with the best price I could get.
 
I weighed my DPG and it was 38lbs. So the JCR probably weighs about 48-50lbs

Our skid weighs 47lbs.

Would I need a special tool for the frame nutserts?

To install nutserts you need a bolt and nut (which is included with the hardware kit). You just tighten the nut and it crushes the nutsert into the framerail.
 
I have the DPG skid and love it. On my 01, it bolted up with no mods to the cat. On my 96 I had to modify the cat (extra cost). Until I saw the JCR i would have done DPG again if the need was there. I think they are so much alike, you could toss a coin and be happy either way. I have a mix of both of there products on my Jeep.
 
I'm having a flat cat put in to fit my DPG skid. I probably would have gotten the JCR to avoid having to do that IF I knew it existed. But on the other hand I fundamentally disagree with having a skid that doesn't protect the cat. To make a cutout for the cat is basically to say "you can drag this skid on a rock, and then damage the cat on it, but who cares?" Why not put a bend in the skid to protect it?

I'm not sure why conventional wisdom is to leave the exhaust system unprotected.
You can crack the header and break seals by hitting the RIGID exhaust system.
 
Some of my thoughts:

The only way to go all the way through would require putting sleeves in.
No it doesn't. Sleeving the uni-body would allow the bolts to be tightened tighter, but that's not necessary at all in this application.
Of course, a customer could sleeve their own uni-body easily enough, whether it's ours or yours.

On the driveside it would require moving the brakeline hardlines.
Yep. But they don't have to be relocated- just popped out of their mounting clips long enough to drill the holes. Then, just remount them when done with minimal if any bending to fit. Easy enough.

Another point to be made here. I'm assuming the JCR skid is normal mild steel?
We use higher grade 50,000psi steel in all of our Rock Attack Products, so we can achieve the strength of a much thicker skid with less weight.
We avoided using 1/4" steel for that reason. Personally, I like to keep the weight down on my XJ's anywhere I can if it doesn't sacrifice strength.

I also prefer through bolts and nuts over self-tappers or even nutserts when mounting in a uni-body for the strongest mounting points.
No question our bolts mounting through the crossmember will provide a much stronger mounting area than the self-tappers on the front of the JCR skid.
Clamping the skid to the crossmember is what helps "unitize" that entire structure together and creates a more solid rigid foundation- as opposed to the skid kind of floating on the bottom of the crossmember.
YMMV.
(I'd be afraid of catching the rear edge of that skid on a ledge I'd just dropped over if I had to back up again.)

As for cat protection and clearance- If you could extend the ENTIRE full belly skid rearward until it covered the cat, you would see why a skid like that would be ridiculous. It would have to be divided (weakened) to clear the driveshaft and it would eat up a LOT of ground clearance under the belly for no reason. It would also be a behemoth and weigh a ton. I don't worry much about the cat as it's located farther rearward towards the wheel, which offers it more natural protection than being in the center of the jeep. I haven't destroyed mine, and we wheel in big rocks.
A skid that covered the cat only would also suffer from extreme heat transfer from the cat.
That can cause the skid and the uni-body above the cat to rust much more quickly if it holds heat in that small area.

I also don't clearance our skids for cat clearance. Any relief cuts or dips away from a straight rear edge create points that are easier to bend. That's why I don't like the t-case skids that mount on one side, covering the t-case in a triangulated mounting situation. The rear edge is easier to bend and it doesn't protect the entire crossmember.
I prefer a straight across rear edge for max strength and rigidity.
Guys who run the big round cats can replace them like Wink did, but I know for a fact that a good exhaust shop can make those fit with minimal cost.
The earlier cats usually don't require any exhaust mods at all.
Covering the front of the cat alone actually offers a great functional level of protection, as it allows the obstacle to slide past the front mounting point of the cat and over the body of it.

As for copying- no worries here.
I have a bumper in mind that looks almost identical to the JCR unit- kind of freaky how close it is to their design, but hey- there's only so many ways you can build a bumper, right? :cool:
I think it should sell for about $10.00 less than theirs...
 
No it doesn't. Sleeving the uni-body would allow the bolts to be tightened tighter, but that's not necessary at all in this application.
Of course, a customer could sleeve their own uni-body easily enough, whether it's ours or yours.
I don't like bolts through a frame or uni-body that don't tighten against a sleeve. If they can even be properly torqued, they don't stay that way for long because the stretch of the bolt is trying to crush the tube/uniframe etc. Some people like through bolts, some trust nutserts. I agree if one wants to go through the trouble of through bolts and sleeves they can do so with either skid.

Yep. But they don't have to be relocated- just popped out of their mounting clips long enough to drill the holes. Then, just remount them when done with minimal if any bending to fit. Easy enough.
Another difference of opinion and design. Unless your willing to properly bend and attach the lines out of the way, there is a chance you'll have a hard line rubbing against a bolt or a nut. Many people are willing. A lot of long arm kits lack in this department BTW.

Another point to be made here. I'm assuming the JCR skid is normal mild steel?
We use higher grade 50,000psi steel in all of our Rock Attack Products, so we can achieve the strength of a much thicker skid with less weight.
We avoided using 1/4" steel for that reason. Personally, I like to keep the weight down on my XJ's anywhere I can if it doesn't sacrifice strength.
What grade are you using? We use 1010 HR with a temper pass. Tensile strength is ~72,500 PSI. Your right .250 is heaver than .188; to some people this is a concern, to some it isn't. Good thing they have two choices. What does yours weigh BTW, ours is 47 pounds.

No question our bolts mounting through the crossmember will provide a much stronger mounting area than the self-tappers on the front of the JCR skid.
Clamping the skid to the crossmember is what helps "unitize" that entire structure together and creates a more solid rigid foundation- as opposed to the skid kind of floating on the bottom of the crossmember.
YMMV.
(I'd be afraid of catching the rear edge of that skid on a ledge I'd just dropped over if I had to back up again.)
I believe we both clamp our skids to the cross member. We add the front bolts to locate the skid tight against the front. Like our sliders these self tapping bolts are typically loaded in sheer, rarely in tension. They torque well and work fine.

I also don't clearance our skids for cat clearance. Any relief cuts or dips away from a straight rear edge create points that are easier to bend. That's why I don't like the t-case skids that mount on one side, covering the t-case in a triangulated mounting situation. The rear edge is easier to bend and it doesn't protect the entire crossmember.
I prefer a straight across rear edge for max strength and rigidity.
Guys who run the big round cats can replace them like Wink did, but I know for a fact that a good exhaust shop can make those fit with minimal cost.
Another choice for people to make. Do you want to do exhaust mods and get complete strength across the back of the skid, or do you want bolt on and sacrifice some bending strength for that cutout. The .250 steel helps in this application, also we have a bend near the center of the cutout which adds strength as well.

As for copying- no worries here.
I have a bumper in mind that looks almost identical to the JCR unit- kind of freaky how close it is to their design, but hey- there's only so many ways you can build a bumper, right? :cool:
The world needs choices. The are lots of XJ bumpers out there, if you want to bring some more to the market and give people choices, have at it.

I think it should sell for about $10.00 less than theirs...
You made a whole post about how you think your skid is better than ours, then you complain about it costing less? Would you rather we make it $50 less? Or should it cost more? Nice jab. :nono:
 
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and DPG says on the sire to call if you have a 242. that would lead me to assume they can make one for that t-case. there isnt any info on that on JCR's site.

Just finished these up this week! Should be on our website in the next 24 hours. We'll have some installed pics soon as well.

XJ242Skid2.jpg
 
I don't like bolts through a frame or uni-body that don't tighten against a sleeve. If they can even be properly torqued, they don't stay that way for long because the stretch of the bolt is trying to crush the tube/uniframe etc.
Sounds good in theory, but in practice, this works just fine without sleeves.
Qulity hardware and locking nuts work fine, but we agree that anyone can sleeve the uni-body if they like.

Another difference of opinion and design. Unless your willing to properly bend and attach the lines out of the way, there is a chance you'll have a hard line rubbing against a bolt or a nut. Many people are willing. A lot of long arm kits lack in this department BTW.
If you leave a line rubbing against a bolt, you did it wrong. Those lines are plenty long and therefore plenty flexible. They are quite easy to bend in such a way as to easily clear any bolts.


What grade are you using? We use 1010 HR with a temper pass. Tensile strength is ~72,500 PSI. Your right .250 is heaver than .188; to some people this is a concern, to some it isn't. Good thing they have two choices. What does yours weigh BTW, ours is 47 pounds.
Mine weighs that much shipped in a custom double-walled sliding box, so probably about 10lbs less.


I believe we both clamp our skids to the cross member. We add the front bolts to locate the skid tight against the front. Like our sliders these self tapping bolts are typically loaded in sheer, rarely in tension. They torque well and work fine.
My bad. I missed the 2 bolts through the crossmember. Definitely better, as I thought you had none.


Another choice for people to make. Do you want to do exhaust mods and get complete strength across the back of the skid, or do you want bolt on and sacrifice some bending strength for that cutout. The .250 steel helps in this application, also we have a bend near the center of the cutout which adds strength as well.
Yep- again, I prefer to cover the front of the cat to avoid hanging up there.

The world needs choices. The are lots of XJ bumpers out there, if you want to bring some more to the market and give people choices, have at it.
I actually have no intentions of making another XJ bumper. If I can't build it to be different and original, I don't want to throw just another product into the ring. Kind of like XJ rock rails. I don't see any new and exciting/original ways to improve on them, so I've left it alone.

You made a whole post about how you think your skid is better than ours, then you complain about it costing less? Would you rather we make it $50 less? Or should it cost more? Nice jab. :nono:
I try. Just funny how a skid that looks almost identical to mine is now on the market for $10.00 cheaper.
Coincidence?
Sure it is...:gag:

I honestly understand though. Our rear bumpstop plate design was basically ripped off a few years ago too. I don't have any patents on this stuff. It happens in our industry all the time.
Just means we had a good design to start with.

I hope it goes well for you.
 
I try. Just funny how a skid that looks almost identical to mine is now on the market for $10.00 cheaper.
Coincidence?
Sure it is...:gag:

I honestly understand though. Our rear bumpstop plate design was basically ripped off a few years ago too. I don't have any patents on this stuff. It happens in our industry all the time.
Just means we had a good design to start with.

I hope it goes well for you.

Not to hasta, but you both clearly make a great product and the design is similar to what many of us would do... simple and strong... great design. Grace would be called for here... :cheers:
 
I have the DPG and would reorder it because:
1. Agree that the through bolts through the unibody on the sides is fine. No way those lock nuts are backing out, the frame is not crushed - non issue
2. prefer the rear straight edge of the DPG. maximum strength there. Wouldn't you rather have a nice high flow maganaflow cat adn muffler tucked in up there anyway? I had one installed before the plate and had no problems.
3. Issue of the brake hard lines rubbing the through bolts: to me non issue, lines are easily moved. What I did for peace of mind on the rubbing issue is place a small piece of rubber tube over the threads of the bolts just so if there was any rubbing no big deal.
4. The bottom surface of the dpg is completely flat. I like that there are no potential protrusions to contribute to a hang up.

this being said, only stating a preference, both look solid. :peace:
 
ahh, ok - the "non flat" surface I was seeing and referred to in my last post is for the NP242. Something else to consider
 
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