Detroit True Trac both ends

I had one in the front for a few years and it broke, it developed about 1/2 turn of slop in it and it growled like a bear in corners. They are not servicable in any way so if they break they are done. It worked OK. In situations where you really need a traction aid it acted open. I replaced it with an Aussie and love it!

I also disagree on the comments that a Locker(be it detroit or whatever) does not contribute to tire wear. How can it not? When your on the gas in any manner at all its a SPOOL it has to drag one of the tires around a corner. My rear tires howl anytime I make a corner where the throttle is applied. True when off the gas its open, it doesn't drag a tire at all. But any application of the the throttle locks the rear tires together and one of them has to slip on the pavement...tire slip=tire wear.

I also notice some people say that a locker allows the outside tire to ratchet etc. If your on the throttle it doesn't allow shit to ratchet, if it does its broken. Off the throttle the tires can spin opposite directions, spin at different speeds etc.
 
whats the difference with a nospin and a full detroit.
 
Gojeep said:
Cannot say I agree with that I am afraid. The Detroit only free wheels the outside, or faster turning wheel, when not under power. I can feel the tyres squirming every time I take off around a bend after coming to a stop at a intersection as am under power. If rolling around into another road then it will free wheel and not cause extra wear then.
I will rotate more often and think it is a small price to pay from the added strength and traction.
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BlueCuda said:
I also disagree on the comments that a Locker(be it detroit or whatever) does not contribute to tire wear. How can it not? When your on the gas in any manner at all its a SPOOL it has to drag one of the tires around a corner. My rear tires howl anytime I make a corner where the throttle is applied. True when off the gas its open, it doesn't drag a tire at all. But any application of the the throttle locks the rear tires together and one of them has to slip on the pavement...tire slip=tire wear.

I also notice some people say that a locker allows the outside tire to ratchet etc. If your on the throttle it doesn't allow shit to ratchet, if it does its broken. Off the throttle the tires can spin opposite directions, spin at different speeds etc.
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Hi guys,

We've been through this many times before, but let's do it again. What you feel is not the locker being locked, but being unlocked. The reason you can feel the locker is because it's driving only one tire. Some folks like a spool because you can't feel it, because it's locked all the time. The locker doesn't push because it's locked, it pushes because it's unlocked and driving only one tire. You can sometimes feel the rear kick a little because as you get on and then let off on the throttle the locker can switch sides, meaning switch which wheel is connected to the carrier, giving you that kicking sideways characteristic.

The locker doesn't lock every time you are on the throttle. When making a turn the outside tire spins ahead and the locker only locks if the power applied through the driveline is more than the traction of the tire on the ground spinning the tire ahead. When the inside tire chirps it's because all the power is going to the inside tire when some weight is being shifted to the outside of the vehicle so the inside tire can slip more easily. The reason it chirps is because it slips until the inside tire catches up with the outside tire, then the outside spins ahead again, the inside tire slips to catch up, etc, etc, and it chirps. If enough power is applied, of course it will lock, but if the driver is reasonably careful with the throttle, like in most normal driving situations, then the locker will stay unlocked around corners.

If you drive a rig with a rear spool, it will bark the tires around any corner, especially tight corners in parking lots and 90* turns on surface streets. A locker doesn't do this, even though you give it some throttle to power and accelerate because it is unlocked and only powering one wheel. If you are not throttle happy, and I mean really throttle happy, then an automatic locker will not contribute to increased tire wear.
 
I guess all the lockers I have used have been broke lol.

Mine drags the inside tire around corners when any reasonable amount of throttle is applied(like enough to move you into traffic but not hammered down by any means). It barks the inside tire because its spinning the same speed as the outside tire, it will even leave blackmarks to a point you can see exactly what is going on.

I have a car with a spool and I have had two vehicles with lockers. The only time the locker acts different than the spool is under MINIMAL(sp?) throttle or when completly off the throttle. Upon normal everyday accelleration and WOT it acts just as the spool in my Barracuda does.

It is possible for the locker to apply power to just one tire causing it to pull or push to one side but it will only do this until all the "teeth" line up and both tires get power.

This is just my take on how they work, I could be completly fucking wrong lol
 
I've had f/r TruTracs for 5 years and 85k miles of hard off-road use with 33's and would not go with anything else. I like that they are invisible on-road with my manual transmission and are seamless in operation off-road. The rear TrueTrac failed within 3 months of initial installation when one of the snap rings retaining a worm gear fell out, it was replaced under warranty. I suspect it was a manufacturing defect and I have had no problems since.

Keeping in mind that I don't do hard core wheeling, the True Tracs have given me all of the traction I have ever needed. Yes, it is sometimes necessary to ride the brake pedal to lock up an airborne tire in order to continue forward progress. I have always managed the fancy footwork it takes to operate 3 pedals with 2 legs, although learning to slip the cutch against the brakes to force the IAC to raise the idle for me has been a big step in making this happen.

Another thing I have learned is to use dino based 85w90 gear oil with the TrueTracs. 140 weight gear oil is too thick, synthetic is too slippery to lock them up.

Some examples of forward progress with TrueTrac LSDs and airborne tires:

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If I had a nickel for every malfunctioning ARB I have encountered on the trail I would buy you 2 TrueTracs with all of the money I had saved up, Rosco! I really like the simplicity of driving with TrueTracs. You have traction for most situations, when they are overwhelmed by an airborne tire or mud greased rocks just lean onto the brake pedal a little. If that is not enough then you must be on a hardcore trail!
 
I gotta agree with cuda on this one I have a noslip in the rear and it does push around turns as if both tires are getting power I can tell because in a long sweeping turn on the gas it pushes to the outside when I let off of the throttle it dives to the inside with gusto...I understand that it doesnt do that if I roll around the corner but if I use the gas I know it...Had mine for about 3 years and 3 differnent tire sizes its acted the same the whole time...And to the original poster I had a trutrac in the front of my jeep for a whole 3 months before I took it out for a lockrite draw your own conclusions...
themud
 
I've been running a TrueTrac in my front dana 44 for about 2 years now. I originally bought it for snow and moderate wheeling in a daily driver. I think they are well suited for that. BUT, running 35's on more difficult trails and rocks, the TrueTrac sucks. I've been denied on obstacles that similar but locked XJ's have made(and no, my driving doesn't suck that bad). So I'll be installing an OX in the front in a week or two.
 
Hey guys, not trying to get in a pissing contest about this, just trying to help some have a better understanding of how an automatic locker works. Based on your explanation of an automatic locker, then there's no point to having one. The auto locker is designed to unlock around corners in normal driving conditions, or there's no point to having one. You might as well save the money and get a spool if the locker is locked anytime power is applied.

When the inside tire chirps, it's not dragging because it's locked, it's slipping to catch up to the outside tire which has spun ahead.....which is how the locker differentiates. If you can be a touch lighter on the throttle, which I know you are in some situations, then it won't chirp even though you are applying throttle to accelerate.....and all the power is going to the inside wheel since the outside wheel is disconnected and spinning ahead.

As far as pushing, you will feel much more of a push when only one tire is getting power than when both tires are getting power in a corner. On a winding road, the locker is switching sides in every corner as you turn the other way......with only one tire always getting power as the other outside one is freewheeling ahead.

Think of an auto locker as being mostly unlocked, rather than mostly locked, and re-evaluate what you're feeling.
 
Goatman said:
The rear tires will not wear faster with a Detroit, or any other auto locker. There is nothing in the operation of an auto locker that will contribute to increased tire wear. The characteristics that are noticeable occasionally with a Detroit are from the locker differentiating, meaning letting one tire spin faster than the other around corners, not from the locker locking up on the street.
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I have to disagree. I notice faster wear on my rear tires with a lockright in the back. This locker allows the tires to turn at different rates but does not when you are on the gas. So if you are turning and applying power to the rear, they are both turning at the same rate and this increases tire wear. I had to rotate my tires more often to keep them even. When i upgraded to 33's, i removed the locker in the rear (dana 35) and they didn't wear as quickly as they used to.

When i first got into using lockrights, i wasn't aware that they clicked on turns. I was thinking mine was broke or something and had to call powertrax. They said it clicks on turns because it allows the outside tire to turn at a different rate, giving you a tighter turning radius but they also explained that it doesn't click when under load on turns because it's locked. And due to it being locked under loads on turns, tire wear is increased. So basically what i've said in my first paragraph is what i learned from a powertrax customer service rep.
 
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I cant say if I agree with the auto locker explanations or not, quite honestly, Im a little confused by the descriptions.
Maybe I can do better, or at least different.
Heres how an auto locker works:
Its normal condition is locked. This only happens while both wheels are turning the same speed (torque applied to both wheels).
When you corner, the outside wheel turns faster then the ring gear, when that happens, theres no torque tranfer to it and it unlocks. Its always the outside tire that unlocks in a turn. The vehicles weight shifts from the inside wheel to the outside wheel in turns making it easy to break traction on the inside with just a small amount of throttle. When traction is broken, the inside wheel will spin faster catching up with the speed of the outside wheel, when that happens, the locker thinks you are driving straight and will lockup halfway through the turn. This is also why you have to be very conscience of thottle input in slick conditions. It doesnt take much slipping of the inside tire to fool the locker into lockup in a corner.

Now, back on topic.
Ive had a Softlocker in my YJ for years. Ive gone through several winters with it and I can say its always my very last choice to drive if the roads have ANY snow or ice on them.
Im currently building my XJ for occational off roading but mainly as a DD. Under no circumstances will I put an auto locker in it and Im leaning toward a TruTrac in the rear and possibly one in front as well. I ran a TruTrac in my YJ before I put the detroit in so Im familiar with how they perform. It worked very well. It is nearly invisable on the road and still a noticable improvement off road. Its a good compromise IMO
 
muddeprived said:
I have to disagree. I notice faster wear on my rear tires with a lockright in the back. This locker allows the tires to turn at different rates but does not when you are on the gas. So if you are turning and applying power to the rear, they are both turning at the same rate and this increases tire wear. I had to rotate my tires more often to keep them even. When i upgraded to 33's, i removed the locker in the rear (dana 35) and they didn't wear as quickly as they used to.

When i first got into using lockrights, i wasn't aware that they clicked on turns. I was thinking mine was broke or something and had to call powertrax. They said it clicks on turns because it allows the outside tire to turn at a different rate, giving you a tighter turning radius but they also explained that it doesn't click when under load on turns because it's locked. And due to it being locked under loads on turns, tire wear is increased. So basically what i've said in my first paragraph is what i learned from a powertrax customer service rep.
Click to expand...

As far as tire wear, as always it depends on driving style. Even without a locker some folks wear tires differently than others. My experience with lockers on a street driven vehicle goes back 12+ years. I rarely chirp the tires going around corners, and I have experienced no accelerated or uneven tire wear on the rear tires. If you drive a vehicle normally, the locker will not cause increased tire wear on the street. If you have a heavier foot, then yes, you will wear the tires faster.

The amount of load that is required to lock the locker is the amount that it takes to slip the tire. Even if a load is applied, like accelerating around a corner, the locker will still be unlocked if the throttle pressure is light. Also, you can't always hear a lunchbox locker click. It's louder when turning real tight because you're going slow and with the sharper turn there is more difference in speed between the two tires so there are more "clicks" as the dog teeth slide past each other. On a more gradual turn and at a faster speed there aren't as many "clicks" and you can easily not hear them. On a Detroit, it doesn't click because the side gears ride up a slight ramp when the locker disengages rather than the dog teeth sliding past each other, which is why the Detroit is smoother and quieter.

As a further explanation of how a locker works, you can think of it as a ratchet and socket. If you hold the ratchet in one hand and the socket in the other, you can rotate the ratchet and the socket has to turn. But, if you spin the socket with the other hand faster than the ratchet is being turned then the socket will begin to free wheel and click. Just like a locker. Like I said, if the locker always locks up under any amount of load or throttle, then there is no point to having one, you might as well save money and buy a spool. Thankfully, that is not the case.
 
Ray H said:
..........When you corner, the outside wheel turns faster then the ring gear, when that happens, theres no torque tranfer to it and it unlocks. Its always the outside tire that unlocks in a turn. The vehicles weight shifts from the inside wheel to the outside wheel in turns making it easy to break traction on the inside with just a small amount of throttle. When traction is broken, the inside wheel will spin faster catching up with the speed of the outside wheel, when that happens, the locker thinks you are driving straight and will lockup halfway through the turn. This is also why you have to be very conscience of thottle input in slick conditions. It doesnt take much slipping of the inside tire to fool the locker into lockup in a corner............
Click to expand...
I gave basically this same explination to a traffic cop to keep from getting an "exhibition of speed" ticket. My early Bronco's short wheelbase and soft suspension exhibited alot of this behavior :laugh: It's had a Detroit in it for 15yrs now but, sometimes I forget and get a little overzealous with the throttle ---------Hans
 
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As most have stated I too have a True Trac up front. And hate it. I run 30" tires so I am not over powering the unit with excessive tire size. It acts as an open when I have a tire in the air. Because of it I have been denied on several occasions. I feel that anything is better then a LSD, go open, lunch box, full case locker or selectable.
 
XJourney said:
As most have stated I too have a True Trac up front. And hate it. I run 30" tires so I am not over powering the unit with excessive tire size. It acts as an open when I have a tire in the air. Because of it I have been denied on several occasions. I feel that anything is better then a LSD, go open, lunch box, full case locker or selectable.
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Do you left foot brake when it is in the air?
 
KarlVP said:
Nothing. Detroit calls them the "no spin" The newer versions are the "soft locker" In either case, they are a full carrier replacement (except for a GM 14bolt) That is why folks call them "full (carrier) detroits".
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not the case. you can get a dana 70 for sure with a two piece carrier. I think everything over a dana 60 you can have a 2 piece carrier.
 
Megawatt said:
I've tried it a few times. Seems to help, but it's difficult to do when running a clutch at the same time.
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That's where a hand throttle would be handy. Rubicon Express sells a kit but, it's real easy to make your own.....just a moutain bike shifter and a little creative linkage. I have them on both my Toyota and Bronco......offroad cruise control:)---------Hans
 
Truetracs at both ends will be invisible on the street for the most part and get you through all but the extreme stuff. As for Detroits, I've run with them in the front for a long time now and love them in the front for everything except 4wd on a snowy road at high speeds or high speed desert running. I've also run a Detroit in the rear on two separate vehicles now, and I flat out don't like it. One with an auto, one with a manual; one old style, and one "soft locker". I don't care for the vague steering it causes, the unstable feel around highway curves if you're not steady on the gas, and the other handling quirks, even though I have just adjusted my driving style to compensate. Just my experience.
 
Gojeep said:
Do you left foot brake when it is in the air?
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Yea I have tried the left foot break but never fails in the rocks it gets me to about 90% there and then lets go and the tire in the air spins. Maybe if I wasn't a finesser drive and did a little throttle jockeying, I may not have such an issue.
 
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