Who we are fighting, and how they do it.

I remember reading an article years ago about the logging industry and how it helps clean the forest, remove dead trees so seedlings can grow and remove certain trees that negatively affect other healthy ones. Obviously over doing it will wipe out areas but anyway the point I was getting at is the greenies were all huffing and puffing over the typical environment crap, they succeeded in shutting down logging in this area in Oregon I believe, turns out years later the forest was shown to be more unhealthy in its natural state then when it was being logged responsibly.

Mother nature's remedy is then to clear-cut the forest via wildfire, which can be more damaging and take the forest longer to heal. You don't think the little red-legged frogs aren't affected by that? Either way it will heal, and OHVs crossing the stream is unlikely to wipe out a whole species of frogs. If they were that fragile they wouldn't last in nature anyway, and aren't meant to be. My point being, that our responsible use of the forest is no more devastating than mother nature herself.
 
In fact I just saw this article on rgj.com

Major forest-thinning project at Tahoe approved
http://www.rgj.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/201204141935/NEWS/304140052

"The project expands fuel-reduction activities already under way at Lake Tahoe, and provides for machine thinning in sensitive areas near streams.

Allowing the use of low-impact mechanical equipment and pile burns in stream areas was a key recommendation of a bi-state fire commission formed after the 2007 Angora Fire."
 
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Mother nature's remedy is then to clear-cut the forest via wildfire, which can be more damaging and take the forest longer to heal. You don't think the little red-legged frogs aren't affected by that? Either way it will heal, and OHVs crossing the stream is unlikely to wipe out a whole species of frogs. If they were that fragile they wouldn't last in nature anyway, and aren't meant to be. My point being, that our responsible use of the forest is no more devastating than mother nature herself.

"Responsible use" is pretty much the defining point, that's the entire argument right there. Freedom is the choice of being responsible or not. The hard part is making non wheelers understand our point and rights when the greenies are arguing for a third party who they are trying to preserve.
 
i know its not much , but i emailed by senators, representatives, and el dorado country supervisors. i figure every little bit helps, they need to know our presence and how many of us actually care!
i wonder how we can raise some hell in the news?

Amendment X

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.
 
CALIFORNIA CONSTITUTION
ARTICLE 1 DECLARATION OF RIGHTS


Section 25. The people shall have the right to fish upon and from
the public lands of the State and in the waters thereof, excepting
upon lands set aside for fish hatcheries, and no land owned by the
State shall ever be sold or transferred without reserving in the
people the absolute right to fish thereupon; and no law shall ever be
passed making it a crime for the people to enter upon the public
lands within this State for the purpose of fishing in any water
containing fish that have been planted therein by the State;
provided, that the legislature may by statute, provide for the season
when and the conditions under which the different species of fish
may be taken.

is there any planted fish on any of these trails?

has anyone applied for a repeal of the court order?
 
i contacted 1 representative today, 2 senators , 5 country supervisors, and one other person.
received contact back from one so far.
here are the 5 county supervisors i have contacted, Tim Roffe says it is good to let them know how we feel and how this trial closure is affecting us and that we want to help keep it open
please be respectful when contacting them and keep to main issues and no flaming

El Dorado County Supervisors

District 1- John Knight 621-5650 [email protected]

District 2- Ray Nutting 621-5651 [email protected]

District 3- Jack Sweeney 621-5652 [email protected]

District 4- Ron Briggs 621-6513 [email protected]

District 5- Norma Santiago 621-6577 [email protected]
 
Good looking out on the info. The 4x4 community needs to be better educated and more vocal on the things that effect us. We need to be educated on what the other side is doing so we can have counter arguments.
 
some of the representatives/senators/county supervisors didn't even know what i was talking about, so i sent them links to educate them on whats going on. most of them think I'm talking about the normal seasonal closures. i think it would be good if more people contact their representatives, senators, and the el dorado county supervisors. if its off their radar, or falls off their radar because they are not constantly reminded, then they will think its not a big issue to us. we need to keep them aware that we are not happy with this and we need their help, and do it weekly. the more guys that email them, the more of an issue it will become, instead of random one-off emails.
 
fro their statement, its not about the meadows , its about the red legged frog?
SAVING THE CALIFORNIA RED-LEGGED FROG
Experts agree: Mark Twain’s favorite amphibian, “The Celebrated Jumping Frog of Calaveras County,” is none other than the California red-legged frog. Once so common it was a staple cuisine, California’s largest native frog has now lost 90 percent of its historic population. Thanks to Center litigation, the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service designated more than 4.1 million acres of critical habitat in 2001, but a building-industry lawsuit caused the agency to withdraw that decision — and even after Center intervention and a federal proposal to re-designate the original acreage, the Service protected only 450,288 acres. This decision, occurring through the influence of former Interior Department official Julie MacDonald, was based on a biased economic analysis and ignored scientific evidence of the species’ needs.

In August 2007, the Center warned we would sue over this decision and 54 other tainted endangered species rulings. Three months later, the Service announced the reversal of six rulings, including the one slashing habitat for the frog. In December 2007, we sued to ensure that the frog’s new critical habitat designation was adequate, and in 2010, the Service nearly quadrupled the designation to 1.6 million acres.
Unfortunately, the frog’s habitat has also been contaminated by pesticides — to which amphibians, with their permeable skin, are highly vulnerable. The Center filed a 2002 lawsuit forcing the Environmental Protection Agency to consult with endangered species experts at the Fish and Wildlife Service to ensure that chemicals they register won’t harm the red-legged frog. In 2006, we reached a settlement agreement that prohibits the use of 66 toxic pesticides in and near core California red-legged frog habitats until formal consultations with the Service have been completed. When the EPA and Fish and Wildlife Service failed to follow through, in 2011 we took both agencies back to court.

In 2001, the Center submitted a comprehensive, scientifically based conservation plan for Southern California’s four national forests that would protect red-legged frog habitat, and we’re still challenging the Forest Service’s frog-harming management plans for these forests. We’ve also opposed numerous urban-sprawl projects in the San Francisco Bay Area to ensure that red-legged frogs aren’t squeezed out by golf courses and luxury condos.

so option 1, lets find a way to help these frogs while keeping our trails open? if thats what it takes, ill start giving a f$ck about these frogs , we can one up them and find ways that she the frogs and keep the trails open.
don't they have a frog tunnel under the causeway on I80 going towards davis?
we can build bridges, route off areas closer to their habitat, ad frog tunnels.
 
these things breed when we are off the trails, nov-march,

This species is estimated to have disappeared from 70% of its range, and is now only found in about 256 streams or drainages in 28 counties of California.[2] However, California red-legged frogs are still common along the coast and the majority of their population declines are in the Sierra Nevadas. Breeding occurs from November to March (breeding has been recorded earlier in the southern limits of its range). The male frogs' advertisement call is a series of a few small grunts, usually given while swimming around underwater. Choruses are weak and easily missed. This species is usually active in daylight and inhabits dense, shrubby or emergent riparian vegetation and still or slow-moving perennial and ephemeral water bodies that also serve as breeding sites. The California red-legged frog hybridizes with the Northern red-legged Frog in Sonoma County and Marin County is an important food source for the endangered San Francisco garter snake.
The tadpoles (larvae) of this species may metamorphose into frogs within several months of hatching from the egg, or may "overwinter", which extends the time it takes a tadpole to metamorphose from seven to 13 months.[3] Recent discoveries, such as overwintering, have management implications for this threatened species, particularly when aquatic habitat undergoes modification.


and it seems the bull frog also eats these guys, why aren't they fighting against bull frogs?

This frog is listed as threatened and is protected by California law. The main cause of declines is habitat loss and destruction, but introduced predatory species such as bullfrogs, might also be a big factor. After years of litigation initiated by land developers organizations, specifically the Home Builders Association of Northern California, and scientific back-and-forth, the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service announced in April 2006 the designation of about 450,000 acres (1800 km²) of critical California habitat for the threatened frog. This protected habitat did not include any land in Calaveras County, the setting of Mark Twain's short story, "The Celebrated Jumping Frog of Calaveras County", which features this species.
On 17 September 2008, the US Fish and Wildlife Service proposed to more than triple the habitat of the California red-legged frog, citing political manipulation by former deputy assistant secretary at the United States Department of the Interior Julie MacDonald. According to the Los Angeles Times, "Development and destruction of wetlands have eliminated the frogs from more than 70% of their historic range. MacDonald would have reduced what was left of the frog's range by 82%."[4] San Mateo County and Monterey County of CA seem to have some of the largest healthy populations of these frogs, especially in coastal wetlands.[5][6]
In March 2010, the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service announced 1,600,000 acres (6,500 km2) of protected land for the species throughout California.[7][8] The largest population of the frog will be given protection on a 48-acre stretch of land in Placer County.[9]
 
this frog is in placer county, calaveras, the coast, and its endangered, its only a matter of time until they hit up other counties. i say we ask this Karen lady for a list of her species that she is worried about and we start finding out how we can mitigate this risk by altering available trails now that are still open around these other animals. i this could be mutually beneficial. if she then still continues to try to close trails, then she is a cold hearted bitch

also,
the bull frogs are bad for these guys, livestock grazing, dams, and pesticide runoff. its not just the 4 wheeling. i bet 4 wheeling is like 2% of the real problem, and the dams, pesticide, cattle grazing,bull frogs, etc are like the 98% of the reason these things are dying. i for one have no intentions of running over any frogs and if i see one i will tell him to move off the trial politely.
 
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basically she is using this frog as leverage to shut down trails because she hates wheelers. i bet she eats them . they used to be cuisine in california.

also, i can find nothing about these frogs and meadows, just aquatic sites, these frogs live near water. the ridge trails that have meadows don't make sense since the frogs wouldn't want to live there anyway.

why don't we set aside areas that are not on trails to protect these frogs? there are many other answers than just closing the trails.
 
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this comment was left here: http://www.laketahoenews.net/2012/04/opinion-closing-forest-roads-in-el-dorado-county-is-wrong/

and i liked it:
"
This news makes me sick! Some of the closed trails like Barret Lake are the lead examples of excellent work and protection of the enviroment combined. All those old logging roads your dad took you on as a kid…gone. That favorite picnic area on a road rairly ever used gone. That favorite fishing hole that you used to get to on horseback and in that old willys Jeep …gone.YET we allow the total destruction of priceless lands and animal habitat to be throw out the window for the next “casino, shopping mall, condos, coffee shop”.Disgusting……
"
 
No. Build it up, wheel it (legally), and join the fight to keep our trails open!
 
i have been emailing the NRA grassroots director back and forth. they don't currently see it as an issue that they need to be part of. they say the local gun owners will get in when they need to .

also I've been reading on some OHV boards , like dirt biking forums, and they are pissed as hell.
it seems between corva, ca4wd , BRC, they have a start.

too bad all the 4x4, ohv, dirt bike, gun owner, hiker, etc forums couldn't come together and help donate cash to the above names associations who are trying to fight the legal battle. we would have a force to be reckoned with.

these frogs are in other forests, i feel like we need to be proactive in other forests so we will have trails to wheel.
 
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