Who we are fighting, and how they do it.

[DaveNJeep]

This first link is all of the member organizations in this alliance-

http://www.sierranevadaalliance.org/membergrps/

This next link is the specific group who filed this action -

http://www.sierranevadaconservation.org

Here is the contact info for this organization -

PO Box 603
Georgetown, CA 95634

phone: 530.333.1106 Karen Schambach, Center for Sierra Nevada Conservation, (530) 333-1113

email: [email protected]
website: http://www.sierranevadaconservation.org


"Sphere of Influence: El Dorado National Forest/Sierra Nevada Mountains & El Dorado County land use issues."

"Areas of Interest: Private and public forestry issues, off-road vehicle management, wildlife issues, land use."

Notice the interesting statement concerning their areas of interest, "Off road vehicle management"! Ain't that rich!

Here is a link to her being mentioned on Priates -

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?p=11736917

http://www.peer.org/chapters/ca.php a little about this person
http://www.hcn.org/issues/188/10012

It seems she is basically a typical leftie. She abuses the very system she mocks as that very same system gives her the power to do so.

 

[KTMqdracer]

Thanks.

 

[EricsXJ]

That right there shows what their intentions are. Nowhere in their press release did they mention it is a temporary, or one year closure. They want it closed for good.
(press release is in the 2nd link)

 

[XJensen]

It's a shame the groups can't truly work together toward a complete solution, extremist views from one side or the other will never help us reach a viable sustainable solution.

Josh

 

[JeepFreak21]

Have any of us actually run into these tree hugging SOB's on the trail?
Billy

 

[Ben H]

Have any of us actually run into these tree hugging SOB's on the trail?
Billy

I remember a trip on the Rubicon a few years back...We were messing around on Soup Bowl and some backpackers came hiking in and scuttled past us complaining about the exhaust smell.

On the Dusy a couple of years ago, came across several hikers...I was complaining that they smelled like patchouli and stale granola. We found some fresh stinky rose buds a couple miles past where we passed them...assume those were gifts to the wilderness gods from those environmentally friendly hikers. I buried their shit for them, as the Dusy is a "Wilderness" trail and it needed to be kept pristine.

I usually always pass hikers on the local 4x4 trails. Got dropped in on by a 6xgroup of packers on Brewer Lake...Brewer is a very small lake, with one small main camp site. Fawkers set up camp about 100 yards from us in this little meadow area, less than 20' from the lake...That July night, it dropped down to really cold...next morning, some of our wood was gone...They had already bailed, but left their fire smoldering. I was too hungover to care, but did put out their fire.

Now I'm not certain, any of these instances included the peeps we are in battle with, but I'll assume so. So yes, they are out there...and no they don't really give a damn about the forest...at least from what I've seen.

 

[connor0770]

"Unmanaged outdoor recreation, in particular off-road vehicle use, was identified by former chief Dale Bosworth in 2005 as one of the four principle threats to our national forests. Although the challenged decision prohibits cross-country off-road vehicle travel, which has done severe damage to the forest in the past, it allows the continued degradation of wildlife habitat, especially in key riparian and meadow areas, by approving illegally created routes and failing to analyze the minimum required road system." ARE YOU KIDDING ME? These trails have been here for years! I cant stand these schmucks


oh and "On the ENF, which includes 596,724 acres in federal ownership, meadows occur only over only 10,416 acres, or 1.7 per cent of the forest. These scarce, fragile, wet habitats are heavily used by wildlife. " Please tell me how driving my jeep on a TRAIL effects 596,724 acres of wildlife? If all they want to do is save the water crossings. Then we build a bridge over it? Look no sediment going down stream, the frogs are fine, and nothing is harmed... these people are selfish.

 

[connor0770]

Hey so I have been doing some trolling over on the Sierra Club forum and came across this: http://connect.sierraclub.org/forums/Topic4332263-2018-1.aspx

"i am an avid snowmobiler and only ski now when the snowmobile is the lift, i am finding more and more cross country skiers trying to keep me from my form of recreation, the land i use is mainly for snowmobiles, yet i have been harrased by cross country skiers. i see absolutly no use at the trail heads of the widerness areas, i have rescued three of you now only to have one after about two weeks trying to block my path. my main question is why are you not using the wilderness that you have fought so hard for"

then some lady with 10,000 posts "When you say "the land I use is mainly for snowmobiles," I assume you mean it's a place that's been legally designated as okay for snowmobiles. If that's the case, and you're snowmobiling in places where it's allowed, then (personally), I think you should not be harassed.

If you're on land that is shared by both, then you're in your legal right, and I suppose the cross country skiers could go elsewhere. But it's hard to feel happy about sharing space when the sport one is engaging in is quiet and in appreciation of the quiet exploration of a place, yet someone else's enjoyment of that place destroys the value it is that you're seeking."

Wait did i read that right?

So in Bold she is stating that he has the legal right to go out there and ride his snowmobile. But once he mixes with the Skiers (WHICH IS LEGAL SNOWMOBILE TERRITORY) he is at the wrong (in red) because somehow the skiers have the right away and he is ruining it for them? These people are freakin selfish. We want to share the trails with everybody and they want it all for themselves.

 

[blondejoncherokee]

Hey so I have been doing some trolling over on the Sierra Club forum and came across this: http://connect.sierraclub.org/forums/Topic4332263-2018-1.aspx

"i am an avid snowmobiler and only ski now when the snowmobile is the lift, i am finding more and more cross country skiers trying to keep me from my form of recreation, the land i use is mainly for snowmobiles, yet i have been harrased by cross country skiers. i see absolutly no use at the trail heads of the widerness areas, i have rescued three of you now only to have one after about two weeks trying to block my path. my main question is why are you not using the wilderness that you have fought so hard for"

then some lady with 10,000 posts "When you say "the land I use is mainly for snowmobiles," I assume you mean it's a place that's been legally designated as okay for snowmobiles. If that's the case, and you're snowmobiling in places where it's allowed, then (personally), I think you should not be harassed.

If you're on land that is shared by both, then you're in your legal right, and I suppose the cross country skiers could go elsewhere. But it's hard to feel happy about sharing space when the sport one is engaging in is quiet and in appreciation of the quiet exploration of a place, yet someone else's enjoyment of that place destroys the value it is that you're seeking."

Wait did i read that right?

So in Bold she is stating that he has the legal right to go out there and ride his snowmobile. But once he mixes with the Skiers (WHICH IS LEGAL SNOWMOBILE TERRITORY) he is at the wrong (in red) because somehow the skiers have the right away and he is ruining it for them? These people are freakin selfish. We want to share the trails with everybody and they want it all for themselves.

they are a bunch of selfish, self centered, hypocritical , self righteous, holier than thou because what i love to do is better than you sorta a$$holes

 

[DaveNJeep]

Just a personal sidebar related to the stories above... in my personal experience by far the most sullen, sourpusses I've ever met in the wilderness are the greenie backpackers. The most happpy and pleasant? Jeepers of all types. Yes there are exceptions of course, but by and large this has been true for a long time. I've been backpacking on the PCT with a BSA group (a 50 miler) and come upon backpackers who literally pass you on the trail, out in the middle of nowhere, and not so much as say hi, screw you, excuse me, nada. After a while on this particular trip we actually started to intentionally not say a word to them until they spoke to us. And you know what? 90% said not one word!

Compare that to the generosity of jeepers? No contest!

 

[Ben H]

I like how they call their members "Activist"...

Maybe we all should be referred to as "Advocates"

Hey so I have been doing some trolling over on the Sierra Club forum and came across this: http://connect.sierraclub.org/forums/Topic4332263-2018-1.aspx

"i am an avid snowmobiler and only ski now when the snowmobile is the lift, i am finding more and more cross country skiers trying to keep me from my form of recreation, the land i use is mainly for snowmobiles, yet i have been harrased by cross country skiers. i see absolutly no use at the trail heads of the widerness areas, i have rescued three of you now only to have one after about two weeks trying to block my path. my main question is why are you not using the wilderness that you have fought so hard for"

then some lady with 10,000 posts "When you say "the land I use is mainly for snowmobiles," I assume you mean it's a place that's been legally designated as okay for snowmobiles. If that's the case, and you're snowmobiling in places where it's allowed, then (personally), I think you should not be harassed.

If you're on land that is shared by both, then you're in your legal right, and I suppose the cross country skiers could go elsewhere. But it's hard to feel happy about sharing space when the sport one is engaging in is quiet and in appreciation of the quiet exploration of a place, yet someone else's enjoyment of that place destroys the value it is that you're seeking."

Wait did i read that right?

So in Bold she is stating that he has the legal right to go out there and ride his snowmobile. But once he mixes with the Skiers (WHICH IS LEGAL SNOWMOBILE TERRITORY) he is at the wrong (in red) because somehow the skiers have the right away and he is ruining it for them? These people are freakin selfish. We want to share the trails with everybody and they want it all for themselves.

 

[KTMqdracer]

I hate to say it because its not my nature, but I think taking the high road against people like this, is typically ineffective. Especailly, when the other group only takes the low road. Maybe its time to stoop to their level and take away the things they love and enjoy?

It appears to me that most of the time they are the ones on the offensive and we are on defense. I think I need to start investigating, researching, and learning about these people. Find their strengths, find their weaknesses and go from there...

 

[blondejoncherokee]

i think we should start calling ourselves wilderness enjoyment through motorized vehicle travel advocates .
basically we are dealing with a bunch of self centered, spineless, rather sue something than actually do something to show i care, hypocrites whose only mission in life is to be scum bag hippy cowards and sue their asses off to show they "care" about truly being scum bag hippies.

they probably could care less about meadows, they just want to F us over in the A anyway possible because actually giving a F would mean they have to actually go in the forests and winch rocks and move trees to block off the meadows.

i feel like I'm not a scum bag enough to want to sue those dumbassses back, but it also seems like the only way to fight fire with fire and keep the trails open. we are like the peaceful gandi, and they are murdering rapists when it comes to all this ridiculous spending on litigation and sueing .

 

[Alex E]

Its just not fair that people with a certain view can shop around, find a congressman or judge who is indifferent on our view points or is in lock step with the tree huggers and shuts us, the 4x4 community, down. I don't have anything against tree hugging, packing trash out and preserving our beautiful country. But one thing people need to under stand is we have rights also and we should be allowed just as much access as any other out door activity.

Should we tread lightly and stay on the trails? Absolutely! Its a damn shame that others ruin it for us by taring up fresh soil AND that the tree hugger types don't think we have any rights at all. It just gets under my skin, basically by saying "NO YOU CAN'T GO HERE" is telling me that you don't trust me with my Jeep. We'll, go pound sand because I'm responsible, why don't they go and bother someone doing real harm. We live in a free country/society, with that comes the right to be responsible or ignorant. Its a damn shame that the majority of us responsible people get shut down, told no, walked on, pointed fingers at, you name it, all because a few ass hats ruined it. What the "Do Gooders" fail to realize, or just don't care about, is their laws only effect the law abiding citizens which is the majority. Why not have laws that punish the minority? It a double edge sword living in a free country but I'll take the random ass hats and mishaps once in a while for some freedom over a micro managed nanny state any day. But its all in the name of mother nature and you don't want the butter flys to die right? Good luck every one...I just hope we could get as well organized as they are.

 

[connor0770]

Im sure most of you guys are hikers/backpackers here. How many of you have seen the shortcuts made on trails? Or routes that go around downed trees? Maybe its time for us to stoop to their level and point those out to a judge and close one of their trails... Sadly id rather not close the trails because I like to enjoy them too.

 

[Alex E]

Im sure most of you guys are hikers/backpackers here. How many of you have seen the shortcuts made on trails? Or routes that go around downed trees? Maybe its time for us to stoop to their level and point those out to a judge and close one of their trails... Sadly id rather not close the trails because I like to enjoy them too.

Its true man, I see just as much damage like you described in other out door activities also. I guess we can all acknowledge that being in the out doors will always do some type of so called "damage" but there are so many untraveled areas that the entire hiking, snow boarding, skiing, OHV, etc activities barely even account for traveled area vs untouched stuff we ever get to travel. Hell, the good libs with green energy non gasoline hobbies shouldn't be allowed to kayak, what if their paddle disturbs sediment and chokes a rare salmon down stream? That's not fair to the fish. We shouldn't hike either because is we stepped on a stink beetle that might change things too. We should also ban Go Pro and Red Bull from dropping snow boarders on mountains because that causes avalanches and the snow doesn't have the chance to naturally melt on its own. Crap we should just ban everything. I mean, hang gliding doesn't disturb anything but we should ban that too because its offensive to birds who can do it naturally. Where does it end with these people? The worst part is these people don't even enjoy the lands they think they are protecting. A ranger at Stonyford, its a OHV area for those of you unfamiliar with it, told us years back when they had a fire there. They sent out a call for volunteers to get help with clean up/rebuild projects and a lot of dirt bikers showed up, some wheelers, hang gliders and a few others who all enjoy that area all helped and he said NOT ONE tree hugger or hiker ever showed up.

 

[Ben H]

Define damage. Nature is pretty resilient and it's pretty vein for humans to think, that the minute amount of space we use has an impact.

But I agree with you Alex. I'm done being PC and I encourage others to start being more brazen in how we deal with these "land use" issues.

Its true man, I see just as much damage like you described in other out door activities also. I guess we can all acknowledge that being in the out doors will always do some type of so called "damage" but there are so many untraveled areas that the entire hiking, snow boarding, skiing, OHV, etc activities barely even account for traveled area vs untouched stuff we ever get to travel. Hell, the good libs with green energy non gasoline hobbies shouldn't be allowed to kayak, what if their paddle disturbs sediment and chokes a rare salmon down stream? That's not fair to the fish. We shouldn't hike either because is we stepped on a stink beetle that might change things too. We should also ban Go Pro and Red Bull from dropping snow boarders on mountains because that causes avalanches and the snow doesn't have the chance to naturally melt on its own. Crap we should just ban everything. I mean, hang gliding doesn't disturb anything but we should ban that too because its offensive to birds who can do it naturally. Where does it end with these people? The worst part is these people don't even enjoy the lands they think they are protecting. A ranger at Stonyford, its a OHV area for those of you unfamiliar with it, told us years back when they had a fire there. They sent out a call for volunteers to get help with clean up/rebuild projects and a lot of dirt bikers showed up, some wheelers, hang gliders and a few others who all enjoy that area all helped and he said NOT ONE tree hugger or hiker ever showed up.

 

[Alex E]

Define damage. Nature is pretty resilient and it's pretty vein for humans to think, that the minute amount of space we use has an impact.

But I agree with you Alex. I'm done being PC and I encourage others to start being more brazen in how we deal with these "land use" issues.

Exactly, nature is pretty resilient and although there are some trees missing and a few things are "changed or different" because vehicles have been driving through some trails doesn't change much in the overall scheme of things. Hell, I've been hiking many times and damn near can't find a road or some other man made thing because the forest is so thick.

What I don't get is most of these roads have been their for 60-70 years. The forest looks pretty good to me, the only thing arguably that should be common sense is treading lightly and not having a leaking POS vehicle leaving oil and gas every where. The tree hugger types are like emotional children, always playing "got ya" games with the one person who sets a bad example for wheelers. We need to be more vocal and know our rights. Tell them to go pound sand and not be compliant. Its just a game giving up a little at a time before they just close everything.

 

[Rob D]

The worst part is these people don't even enjoy the lands they think they are protecting. A ranger at Stonyford, its a OHV area for those of you unfamiliar with it, told us years back when they had a fire there. They sent out a call for volunteers to get help with clean up/rebuild projects and a lot of dirt bikers showed up, some wheelers, hang gliders and a few others who all enjoy that area all helped and he said NOT ONE tree hugger or hiker ever showed up.

I know it really wouldn't help, but this kind of stuff should be used in defense of keeping the trails open. After all, as Alex said, many times, if not most, when a call goes out for volunteers to clean up or maintain an area it will be the OHV community that steps up to the plate. But using thier twisted logic, we're probably causing damage by cleaning/maintaing the area too. :wierd:

 

[Alex E]

I know it really wouldn't help, but this kind of stuff should be used in defense of keeping the trails open. After all, as Alex said, many times, if not most, when a call goes out for volunteers to clean up or maintain an area it will be the OHV community that steps up to the plate. But using thier twisted logic, we're probably causing damage by cleaning/maintaing the area too. :wierd:

I remember reading an article years ago about the logging industry and how it helps clean the forest, remove dead trees so seedlings can grow and remove certain trees that negatively affect other healthy ones. Obviously over doing it will wipe out areas but anyway the point I was getting at is the greenies were all huffing and puffing over the typical environment crap, they succeeded in shutting down logging in this area in Oregon I believe, turns out years later the forest was shown to be more unhealthy in its natural state then when it was being logged responsibly.