Tax and spend, or borrow and spend.......

Tax and spend, or borrow and spend

  • Tax and spend (reduce this nation's record deficit)

    Votes: 27 75.0%
  • Borrow and spend (add to this nation's record deficit)

    Votes: 9 25.0%

  • Total voters
    36
scat said:
Ok, This is an honerable persuit, I agree. I work in the defense industry, and have "followed orders" for 25+ years in this endevour to provide tools so that the nation, can remain safe. Lets make this more general. The averave person, be it the local sanitation worker or the mechanic that fixes the suff you can't, Cops and Firemen, provides you a sevice that makes life a bit more enjoyable and safe. Would you denie them the beifits that you enjoy?

Perhaps we should just let the free market place loose and privatize all those city departments like fire, police, sewer, water, the courts, jails, road and bridge repairs, city parks and pools, and so on.

:jester:
 
Ecomike said:
Perhaps we should just let the free market place loose and privatize all those city departments like fire, police, sewer, water, the courts, jails, road and bridge repairs, city parks and pools, and so on.

:jester:

Well...some of them shouldn't be Fed Gov programs....

Sorry - but I'm a fan of small government and greater responsibility for all. If you can't handle that - please move to Canada or the UK and you can partake in all the lovely benefits of large scale government - like universal healthcare.

Go ahead...ask a Brit or a Canadian how wonderful their healthcare system is....

!!!1
 
scat said:
Ok, This is an honerable persuit, I agree. I work in the defense industry, and have "followed orders" for 25+ years in this endevour to provide tools so that the nation, can remain safe. Lets make this more general. The averave person, be it the local sanitation worker or the mechanic that fixes the suff you can't, Cops and Firemen, provides you a sevice that makes life a bit more enjoyable and safe. Would you denie them the beifits that you enjoy?

My pension (like many pensions) is based on the fact that I'm being paid 2/3 of what I should be getting paid. After 20 years, my reward is to receive the remainder of that doled out over the rest of my life. I may only live 2 years after retirement, or I might live 50 years. Personally, I'd like to get all 100% of it while I'm doing the work, so I can invest it as I see fit - but then the military loses that "incentive" to have people stick around for 20 years. You get lots of people who'd only stay around for 5...10...15 years.

I also wish that the money the military paid for medical would go into my check so that I could get my own medical insurance. But that's just me. Lots of people have proven they are unable to take care of themselves, even when compensated enough. They piss it away on other things. Also, it is probably cheaper for the military to pay for its form of health care, rather than give everyone an equal amount, based on the most sickly person. People abuse "free" healthcare - they turn into hypochondriacs and think that they need to see a doctor for every little cough - or need a pill for every ache and pain.

/end rant
 
I can understand wanting the money withheld for retirement now. Perhaps you would have a bigger nest egg in twenty years versus military retirement, but I really doubt it. Let's assume with your investment strategy you're better off. You know as well as I do the hammerheads who blow every penny of every payday. Where are they going to be in 20 years? You say you should have options, but how is the govt. going to know you can handle your retirement responsibly? They can't hold your hand, and if you screw up someone has to take of you. It would be welfare then.
 
Borrow. What collection agency is going to call Capitol Hill?

Who do we "borrow" from anyway? Your poll needs to give us background on the "national debt". Who do we exactly owe money too? I know we hear about "a huge national deficit". I am putting my foot down and not believing we have one until someone tells me who we owe.
 
JohnJohn said:
Borrow. What collection agency is going to call Capitol Hill?

Who do we "borrow" from anyway? Your poll needs to give us background on the "national debt". Who do we exactly owe money too? I know we hear about "a huge national deficit". I am putting my foot down and not believing we have one until someone tells me who we owe.

This will give you a perdy good idea:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_public_debt
http://www.epi.org/content.cfm/Issuebrief203
 
Trail-Axe said:

Ok, now if Wiki is correct..RIGHT?:rolleyes:

How much do these countries owe us?

Foreign owners of US Treasury Securities (April 2008)

Nation/billions of dollars
Japan/592.2
China, Mainlang/502
United Kingdom/251.4
Oil Exporters/153.9
Brazil /149.5
Carib Bnkng Cntrs/115.4
Luxembourg/84.8
Hong Kong/63.1
Russia/60.2
Norway/45.3
Germany/44
Taiwan/42.6
Switzerland /42.5
Korea /40.5
Mexico/38
Singapore/33.3
Turkey/31.1
Thailand/27.9
Canada/24
Ireland/18.5
Netherlands/15.5
Sweden/13.1
Egypt /12.7
Belgium/12.5
Poland/12.5
Italy/10.6
India/10.5
All Other/154.2
Grand Total/2601.8
 
JohnJohn said:
Borrow. What collection agency is going to call Capitol Hill?

Who do we "borrow" from anyway? Your poll needs to give us background on the "national debt". Who do we exactly owe money too? I know we hear about "a huge national deficit". I am putting my foot down and not believing we have one until someone tells me who we owe.

In part, the US Treasury borrows money by selling US Treasury notes at public auctions. Who owns them changes over time. Right now with our record trade deficits with China, China is rapidly becoming the major owner of US debt. US treasury notes earn an interest rate.

The green paper money you use as "Money" to pay your bills with, and buy stuff with, says across the top of the paper note, "Federal Reserve Note". In the upper left area it also says "this NOTE is legal tender for all debts, public and private", so in essence you are paying your bills with someone elses debt, a Federal Reserve Note debt to be specific. Federal Reserve Notes do not earn interest.

As the economy grows, and the domestic product grows, more paper money and electronic money is needed in circulation in order to have stable prices for goods and services. If they print too much money, it stimulates inflation, too little money stimulates deflation (the Great Depresion kind of deflation if it goes to far for too long).

The money supply gets more involved with the relationship between banks and the Federal Reserve system and Federal Reserve Banks, and loan reserves..etc., but I think I already answered your question.

Oh, and one of the ways we float so much US debt (paper money) overseas is that we have maintained enough control of the world market for oil that we have been able to require that oil purchases be paid for with US dollars. Iran has been trying to break that dollar-oil monopoly by trying to switch to Euros recently.

It is also partly why oil doubled this past year while dollar droped something like 30% in value over the same period versus most other world currencies.
 
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