Tax and spend, or borrow and spend.......

[Ray H]

Something to think about, in fifty years the cost of living has gone up around 300% or more. So in effect you have to save three dollars today to have one at retirement. You can invest your money, sounds good, except the vast majority of investments actually fall points behind inflation. You are still loosing, just loosing less. For every investment that makes money, many loose money (actually most) in real dollars.
The way the social security system works now, is the more you pay in the more you get out. Sounds reasonable, but thinking about it for a minute tells you the people that are lucky enough to succeed, get the most out of the program. In other words, those that may need it the least get the most.
The social security system is a joke, the government has loaned the money to themselves on numerous occasions and then out right spent it on other occasions. They've actually spent the same social security fund several times over.

No argument from me.

 

[JNickel101]

I'll say it again....we need to take care of our own country first. We spend far too much money assisting the rest of the world. We should be sending the Gov of Iraq a bill every month. They are keeping every dime of the oil they sell, from the infrastructure WE rebuilt for them. I'm all for sending aid to other countries, as long as there is a bill attached. I have considered asking the gov't for an itemized report every year of what each of my tax dollars gets spent for - but they'd probably just give me a smartass reply and say "your own salary".

 

[JNickel101]

You say it like its a bad thing. I think a government that takes care of its people is what we were shooting for a couple hundred years ago.
The only purpose of the fed government is to take care of its people. The problem now is that it has become too large and it feeds off itself.
I have no problem paying into the government if later down the road, it takes care of my every need. Thats the point of it.

That is Socialism. The Fed gov't should be protecting us (military) and dealing with foreign relations. People have become too reliant on government to take care of their every need. What happened to saving for your own retirement? Be responsible on your own - don't force the gov't to be responsible for you - because you know they will just F with your money (see "social security and why my generation will never get it"). I trust one person with my money - me.

 

[WrenchMonkey]

You say it like its a bad thing. I think a government that takes care of its people is what we were shooting for a couple hundred years ago.
The only purpose of the fed government is to take care of its people. The problem now is that it has become too large and it feeds off itself.
I have no problem paying into the government if later down the road, it takes care of my every need. Thats the point of it.

Are you serious? You think that's what the founders wanted, to cater to your "every need?"

As for the original question:

"I" would cut spending. Since that's not an option (either in your poll or in washington), I say borrow.

Cutting taxes stimulates the economy, a better economy generates more taxes, and gov't revenues increase.

So yes, cutting taxes brings in more money

I know you won't believe me, but look up the budget numbers, the revenues from '01 to '06 (I don't have time right now). Bush cut taxes on '01, and revenues went up.

So your poll is flawed: It should read "Borrow and spend, reduce the deficit, and help the economy."

Robert

 

[KingOfTheHill]

QUIT SENDING COMPANYS OUT OF THIS COUNTRY!!!!!

and Trim the Fat in government.. too many overpaid idiots that do NOTHING...

JOe

 

[Ray H]

Are you serious? You think that's what the founders wanted, to cater to your "every need?"

Not MY every need right now. Im fine right now. But down the road I would like them to take care of me. Thats the point. You pay now so down the road, when you may need help, its there. Things happen to people, they have illnesses, they live through depressions, their companies shut down, ect. Any one of a number of things can kill ones life savings. I think its a good idea to have programs which can help
The only reason we have a federal govenment is to take care of us. Thats the reason the states banded together to form a federal government. Thats the ONLY reason for a federal government in my opinion. Individual states have laws to govern themselves, they always have. They originally banded together to form a stronger unit for the purpose of defense and to have a stronger political position in the world(ie: taking care of us).

 

[Darky]

The big government nanny-state is based on the assumption that free markets can't provide the maximum good for the largest number of people. It assumes people are not smart or responsible enough to take care of themselves, and thus their needs must be filled through the government's forcible redistribution of wealth. Our system of intervention assumes that politicians and bureaucrats have superior knowledge, and are endowed with certain talents that produce efficiency. These assumptions don't seem to hold much water, of course, when we look at agencies like FEMA. Still, we expect the government to manage monetary and economic policy, the medical system, and the educational system, and then wonder why we have problems with the cost and efficiency of all these programs.

"(1) The common defense (national security);
(2) the preservation of public peace, as well against internal convulsions as external attacks;
(3) the regulation of commerce with other nations and between states;
(4) the superintendent of our intercourse, political and commercial, with foreign countries (foreign affairs)." - Alexander Hamilton, Federalist Paper No.23, 1787 - a founding father with most important interpretation of the Constitution.

 

[JNickel101]

Thanks Darky I couldn't have said it better.

At first, I thought Ron Paul was a loon. But the more I read about him and his beliefs about "small government", the more I started to like it. While I don't agree that we can just pull out of Iraq overnight, I do like most of his ideas....

 

[scottmcneal]

They tell you what you want to hear, then they get in office an chit on you.. MY 2 CENTS :twak: :conceited

 

[TunaSoda]

"The fact is, every service supplied by the government can be provided better and cheaper by private business" - LP.org

 

[Ecomike]

It is not as simple as just cutting taxes or raising taxes. It is possible to raise taxes, or to do both, in such a way that it stimulates the economy to grow faster and to create jobs faster, thus lowering the deficit (all other things being equal) . Here is how it works. You raise taxes on businesses that do not reinvest their profits in ways that either create new jobs, or that develop new products or scientific advances that create new products that lead to new jobs, and you lower taxes by giving tax deductions to those businesses that reinvest in these job growth producing areas.......

Businesses that just buy other businesses so that they rape the bought company of any remianing value, and then rape the retirement accounts of life long employees, finally leaving stockholders and employees with a bankrupt shell, no retirement, and the government with a big problem, should be taxed out of existence.

Also in case no one noticed, the way the US Federal Reserve monetary system is set up here, the money that we all use day to day to pay bills are Federal Reserve Notes, meaning promissory notes of the Federal Reserve system. Those notes are back up by US Treasury Notes (US Government Debt ) that is owned by the Federal Reserve Bank System, and is used as the bank systems working capital. The economy can not expand with out an adequit money supply, that money supply is created by adding to the federal debt. The trick is to do so in such a way that infation is held in check, deflation is held in check and the economy is stimulated just enough so that it can grow at a sustainable pace, with out creating too much debt.

"Money is the evidence of some elses debt!"

When people and businesses start cutting back during a recession or depression, the government is left with the task of restarting or kick starting the economy by spending some money, borrowed money if need be.

 

[PuddinHead]

That is Socialism. The Fed gov't should be protecting us (military) and dealing with foreign relations. People have become too reliant on government to take care of their every need. What happened to saving for your own retirement? Be responsible on your own - don't force the gov't to be responsible for you - because you know they will just F with your money (see "social security and why my generation will never get it"). I trust one person with my money - me.

We DO NOT LIVE IN A DEMOCRACY, but some kind of hybrid democracy/plutocracy where wealthy interests use various means to get what they want. They don't care about anything but the bottom line with NO RESPONSIBILITY TO THE COMMMON GOOD. Think of the corporate scandals and the people who have lost their retirements. Look at the kind of people surrounding the presidency during the last seven years. Their agenda has been crystal clear even to the point of waging an unnecessary war. The reason?

Our social programs are a necessary evil because most all of us would be fubar without them. I know the Fed is inefficient and wastefull, that's why they should be held accountable for the money they spend. We should try to elect responsible leaders. I'm fairly certain they still exist.

We find ourselves here because of selfish oil companies, greedy manufacturers sending jobs overseas, stupid govt (spending billions on an unneeded war instead of developing alternative energy sources) and ourselves (personal debt through the roof etc.)

Stop spending and start saving, and like Teddy Roosevelt said, "Walk softly, but carry a big stick."

 

[Bent]

Sounds like an aptly named naive brainwashed college student to me.

 

[scat]

Thats just the thing - military retirement provides me with a pension, and with medical care for the rest of my life....I have no use for SS/Med - yet I'm still forced to pay for it.

I just believe that you shouldn't be FORCED to pay for it. If you don't pay in, then you can't claim you want it later. Plain and simple.

Err, so who is paying for your military retirement

 

[Darky]

Err, so who is paying for your military retirement

He is with his commitment to go anywhere and do whatever he is (lawfully) ordered to do for 20-30 yrs of his life. That's why he doesn't want to pay into SS and Medicare. And I agree, if I had stayed in, I wouldn't want to lse money to those programs that I likely would never need.

 

[Bent]

He is with his commitment to go anywhere and do whatever he is (lawfully) ordered to do for 20-30 yrs of his life.

FTW

 

[JNickel101]

FTW?

 

[Darky]

FTW?

For The Win

 

[JNickel101]

Err, so who is paying for your military retirement

You and lots others. Thank you.

Military is one of the few services that the gov't should provide the people. Again, as was stated earlier:

Originally Posted by Alexander Hamilton regarding the purpose of our Federal Gov't
"(1) The common defense (national security);
(2) the preservation of public peace, as well against internal convulsions as external attacks;
(3) the regulation of commerce with other nations and between states;
(4) the superintendent of our intercourse, political and commercial, with foreign countries (foreign affairs)." - Alexander Hamilton, Federalist Paper No.23, 1787 - a founding father with most important interpretation of the Constitution.

 

[Ironmen77]

I must not understand the idea behind the programs then....

EDIT: I should clarify - I know who they go to. What I don't understand is why socialistic programs like this are allowed to exist. I'm paying someone else's medical bills for no reason what-so-ever. What am I being punished for?

x2

This is one of my favorites. From Alexander Tyler. No, he wasn't writing about the United States. This quote is well over one hundred years old. Tyler was writing about the fall of the Athenian Republic.


"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves money from the public treasure. From that moment on the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most money from the public treasury, with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world's great civilizations has been two hundred years. These nations have progressed through the following sequence: from bondage to spiritual faith, from spiritual faith to great courage, from courage to liberty, from liberty to abundance, from abundance to selfishness, from selfishness to complacency from complacency to apathy, from apathy to dependency, from dependency back to bondage."