...sorry...another build thread...

[cal]

that would cause the behavior that you are describing.

 

[blondejoncherokee]

that would cause the behavior that you are describing.

Yeah. I need to figure out why though. Last I measured to the first tcase cross member bolt from the back for the front axle centered and the rear leaves as a fixed point to measure from. Ill try it again tonight.

 

[blondejoncherokee]

Edit

 

[blondejoncherokee]

It actually ended up being that the pass side was 1/2" longer. and I never tightened the tie rod heims after adjusting the toe in, the jam nuts were way out


I Adjusted the pass side LCA inward. but thats got me thinking about caster. I have been putting an angle finder on top of the upper ball joint stud sticking out and using that as caster , but I think that might not be true caster? I measured around 5*-6*, and the axle looks obviously pushed back like it has the right amount of caster, and the pinion is pretty flat, but then I measured the WJ, which has like a 4-5* lift, and the LCAs are adjusted to like 16" which is close to stock, and the top of the ball joints measured about 12*, and I doubt it has 12* of caster since it has 16" LCAs on a good amount of lift, it should be less than 7* since they start with 7*.

so I plan to test drive the XJ and see if it has good return to center. if not, I might adjust the upper in quite a bit to get the top of the knuckle to read maybe 12* and hope thats a ton of caster.

 

[rockclimber]

I had a lot of issues with Ruffstuff heims. mine were in my trackbar. went though a number of them. they warrantied several because we could not figure out why they were dying quickly.

switched to FK and have not had a problem.


your steering problem could be a culmination of a lot of little things being off.

when was the last time you had that thing up on a rack and an actual alignment done? I do my own adjustments usually, but if I do a major change I take it to a shop that does 4x4 alignments (one that will actually adjust a trackbar and control arms) so that I at least know I am starting from somewhere correct.

 

[blondejoncherokee]

I have no idea where to take itnfor that. I will look around . I plan to phase in FK jmx heims on everything over the next few months.

 

[cal]

you go to a shop for that?

i do that at home with a tape measure, the same way Jon is.

We have almost no adjustments available to us, and they are crude enough not to need a machine.

 

[blondejoncherokee]

you go to a shop for that?

i do that at home with a tape measure, the same way Jon is.

We have almost no adjustments available to us, and they are crude enough not to need a machine.

I basically measured from the center of the rear axle tube to the T case bolt in the frame rail closest to the back on both sides- came in about the same +- 1/16", the front axle I did center of the tube to the front tcase bolt in the frame, I also measured LCA length, and wheel base every time I made a small adjustment,I measured the leaves from center pin to front bushing and center pin to rear bushing. I did all of this about 15 times to make sure I was not biased to a bad reading. Wheelbase is at 103" on both sides now and the front axle seems centered. I can see the rear center pins are in the center holes, the center pins fit pretty darn snug.

Everything Appears to be ok. Caster visually looks ok, angle finder on top of the upper ball joint is about 5-6* on both sides, but I don't know if that measures real caster or if the upper ball joint is possibly anywhere from 0-5* off from the center line through both ball joints.

I need to test drive it now, and then maybe ill try more caster or less depending on how it does this time around.

If I don't get it dialed with a few more caster adjustments and the rear end looks good, then I might try a shop I guess.

 

[rockclimber]

you go to a shop for that?

i do that at home with a tape measure, the same way Jon is.

We have almost no adjustments available to us, and they are crude enough not to need a machine.

once in a while (read 2 years or so) if I make a significant change.

if you have adjustable control arms and an adjustable trackbar there are several adjustments to **** up.

pinion angle/caster
wheelbase/parallel (easy to **** up)
toe-in
axle center

I also do most minor adjustments myself with a tape measure as well, but sometimes It's nice know I'm starting with "0/0"

especially in a sitaution like John's where he is trying to track down bad handling characteristics and he starts noticing a lot of things are off.

just a suggestion, take it or leave it.

 

[blondejoncherokee]

once in a while (read 2 years or so) if I make a significant change.

if you have adjustable control arms and an adjustable trackbar there are several adjustments to **** up.

pinion angle/caster
wheelbase/parallel (easy to **** up)
toe-in
axle center

I also do most minor adjustments myself with a tape measure as well, but sometimes It's nice know I'm starting with "0/0"

especially in a sitaution like John's where he is trying to track down bad handling characteristics and he starts noticing a lot of things are off.

just a suggestion, take it or leave it.

Im going to try a few more iterations and drive it around town and if that doesn't do it, Ill try a shop just for the hell of it. I would imagine it cant get any worse at this point...

 

[GordoSmasho]

The big hurdle for you john was squaring your axles. And youve done that. All the other adjustments you can make are very basic and hard to mess up if you take your time. You can measure on the top of the upper ball joint. Or I believe there is a flat spot on the bottom of the inner knuckle you can measure off to double check your measurement.

You also want to make sure your control arms arent fighting each other when you adjust them. Its very easy to do when you have double adjustable arms. Just a thought.

First get things in spec with adjustments and then start checking for component wear. Even with some partially worn components deathwobble should be at a minimum if adjustments are in spec.

 

[blondejoncherokee]

The big hurdle for you john was squaring your axles. And youve done that. All the other adjustments you can make are very basic and hard to mess up if you take your time. You can measure on the top of the upper ball joint. Or I believe there is a flat spot on the bottom of the inner knuckle you can measure off to double check your measurement.

You also want to make sure your control arms arent fighting each other when you adjust them. Its very easy to do when you have double adjustable arms. Just a thought.

First get things in spec with adjustments and then start checking for component wear. Even with some partially worn components deathwobble should be at a minimum if adjustments are in spec.

yeah the XJ has no death wobble, but it "slithers" - constant over correction-

But the damn WJ does have DW. I think you are referring to mj WJ posts. Maybe I should start a new build thread for that, but probably not. Once I smog it and fix DW I'm not messing with it anymore...




So I guess I am technically fixing both right now. One doesn't have DW but its constantly correcting back and forth, one has DWbut drives pretty straight but pulls a little right (thus new brakes)




The WJ has a drop trackbar mount welded onto the frame side that seems kinda goofy and a drop pitman arm. I eventually want to get rid of both. trackbar and drag link are off at the frame side due to the drop pitman arm not dropping enough and the drop trackbar bracket dropping too much. Idiots.




the WJ is getting work done, ordered:
new timken hubs
brand new billets 5100s
drop tire pressure to 29 PSI
set toe in and caster
all new TREs
all new rotors,pads, calipers(Upgrading to akebono stuff )
stock WJ pitman
maybe order Kevins offered trackbar
possible pulling a JY WJ box and have PSC rebuild it (there is some noise coming from it and the only source of noise currently
ill be building a trackbar bracket across frame brace similar to the RE ones I have on my XJ and MJ
and plating the frame around the box and trackbar mount as well.
and LCA bushings look good, I plan to replace the UCA axle side bushings and buy new LCAs.

we already replaced the trackbar heims and tires and had the new tires balanced.

 

[831_xj]

Just remembering when my steering box was overtightened from the warranty. Maybe try adjusting that a tad bit back? Mine drove sketchy until I figured it out

 

[blondejoncherokee]

So basically maybe the 4 bolt PSC box could be "over tightened" ??? Never thought of that. It seems fine.

I will try to drive it tonight as messing with getting it square late last night and see how that goes.

its amazing how many ruffstuff heims I killed last year on the trackbar alone and how much better it feels with new FJ JMX heims. its very noticable even over fresh RS heims.
the crazy part , they are not that much more expensive, the 1.25" heims are only like 20$ more each for FK from summit racing, no tax and free shipping versus 15% off at RS with tax and shipping its not that great of a deal.

The 7/8" heims are quite a bit more expensive but if they last 2-6 wheeling trips ill be happy.

 

[cal]

this might sound like a stupid question, but are you sure all the lug nuts are tight, and your rear wheel bearings are good?

 

[blondejoncherokee]

this might sound like a stupid question, but are you sure all the lug nuts are tight, and your rear wheel bearings are good?

not stupid .
the Lug nuts are tight.

Rear wheel bearings are an awesome question. I should check those. I did one side when I swapped the 14b in, but the other seemed ok. Ill check the fronts while I am at it. very good call on that.

 

[cal]

I"m just remembering about a year and a half ago, stopping at an obstacle and noticing i had a rear axle seal leaking really bad, made a note to fix it.

wheeled 3 days at the hammers and did about 100 miles of open desert.

at home, driving the jeep from the trailer to the garage the rear end felt really funky, and then the whole rig danced funny around a corner.

Caliper was the only thing holding the axle in.

 

[blondejoncherokee]

Ill have to check the rear wheel bearings then. And Ill check the fronts.

 

[XJensen]

The death wagon needs a trailer to sit on. Haha

Good luck man. Maybe I can come take a look this weekend and you and Lisa should head over for some beers in the backyard

 

[blondejoncherokee]

Havent pulled the rear shafts yet. Fronts seem fine. Jacking up the rear axle it seems like there is alot of backlash. Like it sloppy turning the rear DS. Rear DS u joint is sort of toast too. Rear end has some noise when I try to spin a tire. Plan is the pop the axle shafts and cover and see whats going on.

With only three weeks to reno im ready to pay someone to fix it. I mean i plan on dropping it off at a shop. I just dont know any good ones to trust other than maybe rob krause but he might be booked.