- Location
- Patterson, Ca
Looking SoCal ready prerunner style.
...sorry...another build thread...
- Thread starter blondejoncherokee
- Start date
blondejoncherokee
NAXJA Member
- Location
- sacramento
ya i forgot to mention that was fully loaded with gear . empty its alot better.
anyway, steering kinda sucks. It drives straight on hwy5 long and straight, up in the mountains, its pretty squirrelly. picture a snake slithering through sand, it pretty much wants to do that . Its almost like I have too much caster and its wanting to return back and forth too fast. Its almost like I want a little wandering feeling back or something. we pretty much dialed in toe in, and I plan on checking caster.
on a different note, both my alternator and power steering pump died on mariposa road on our way to niagara rim on friday night at the same time.We drove all around stockton trying to find a PS pump and Alternator, finally got up to twain harte by midnight. alternator shot the bearing out the back and the shaft was full of play. PS was making horrendous noises, and ive riuoned PS pumps before and never heard this.
Rear driver side beadlock starting snapping bolts and losing air in jamestown arond 1130 pm friday night. Got all new bolts sat morning.
Also had lots of DW. So i ended up pulling off the hi steer arm, found out no matter how much we cranked on the bolts, it still moved way too much. like the arm would litterally slide back and forth. so we got a longer bolt and stacked the hiems on the driver knuckle. had to do this all sat morning after replacing alt and ps pump on the side of the road on friday night. ended up just camping by the clavey river for the night sat.
weird, in windy mountain roads it wants to almost constantly over correct and kinda get squirrelly back and forth, drives pretty straight on straight roads until I have to turn.
NO more DW for now.
wtf. is up the with the steering? new hub bearings, ball joints, driver side spindle, u joints, steering is all new. toe is good. I think I set caster to 10*. Im going to check. So tired...
to much seperation at the frame or axle side on the 3 link?
I am thinking at the moment:
stiffer front coils, and maybe drop 1-2.5" of lift off the front.
steering stabilizer
dial in caster (maybe give it less positive , maybe like 7*?)
anyway, steering kinda sucks. It drives straight on hwy5 long and straight, up in the mountains, its pretty squirrelly. picture a snake slithering through sand, it pretty much wants to do that . Its almost like I have too much caster and its wanting to return back and forth too fast. Its almost like I want a little wandering feeling back or something. we pretty much dialed in toe in, and I plan on checking caster.
on a different note, both my alternator and power steering pump died on mariposa road on our way to niagara rim on friday night at the same time.We drove all around stockton trying to find a PS pump and Alternator, finally got up to twain harte by midnight. alternator shot the bearing out the back and the shaft was full of play. PS was making horrendous noises, and ive riuoned PS pumps before and never heard this.
Rear driver side beadlock starting snapping bolts and losing air in jamestown arond 1130 pm friday night. Got all new bolts sat morning.
Also had lots of DW. So i ended up pulling off the hi steer arm, found out no matter how much we cranked on the bolts, it still moved way too much. like the arm would litterally slide back and forth. so we got a longer bolt and stacked the hiems on the driver knuckle. had to do this all sat morning after replacing alt and ps pump on the side of the road on friday night. ended up just camping by the clavey river for the night sat.
weird, in windy mountain roads it wants to almost constantly over correct and kinda get squirrelly back and forth, drives pretty straight on straight roads until I have to turn.
NO more DW for now.
wtf. is up the with the steering? new hub bearings, ball joints, driver side spindle, u joints, steering is all new. toe is good. I think I set caster to 10*. Im going to check. So tired...
to much seperation at the frame or axle side on the 3 link?
I am thinking at the moment:
stiffer front coils, and maybe drop 1-2.5" of lift off the front.
steering stabilizer
dial in caster (maybe give it less positive , maybe like 7*?)
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XJensen
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Sacramento
That sucks on so many levels
- Location
- Virginia City, NV
Wait to adjust your caster till after you drop some lift. The rake of the body affects the castor angle too. It's minimal but even if its a degree it could be just enough to throw it out of an acceptable range. My rig has 5* in it right now. Drives straight down the freeway. Turns just fine.
Looking forward to wheeling with you John. I'm heading out to the rubicon in 6hours. All packed and ready to roll.
Looking forward to wheeling with you John. I'm heading out to the rubicon in 6hours. All packed and ready to roll.
blondejoncherokee
NAXJA Member
- Location
- sacramento
which is more accurate for caster, top of ball joint, or top of the machined flat top part of the knuckle for the high steer arm?
I know caster is defined as the axis going through the upper and lower ball joints, So my guess is the top of the ball joint, also since the flat machined part of the knuckle can be machined to any angle over stock I have no idea if its accurate.
top of ball joint on both sides measures 10*
top of flat part of knuckle on pass side measures 5*.
it was really fun being broke down on a country road on friday night driving all over stockton to every auto parts store to find a alternator and pump. really fun.
I know caster is defined as the axis going through the upper and lower ball joints, So my guess is the top of the ball joint, also since the flat machined part of the knuckle can be machined to any angle over stock I have no idea if its accurate.
top of ball joint on both sides measures 10*
top of flat part of knuckle on pass side measures 5*.
it was really fun being broke down on a country road on friday night driving all over stockton to every auto parts store to find a alternator and pump. really fun.
blondejoncherokee
NAXJA Member
- Location
- sacramento
also, front roll center is 25", maybe it gets even higher when the rear sags when loaded. Rear is semi loaded and at around 23-24". So I imagine fully loaded with gear its around 22-23, maybe even 21" and maybe the front goes up to say 25.5". I bet using 3.5" coils, netting around 4.5-5" of lift up front, should drop the front roll center when loaded and and unloaded and should hopefully handle much better. I think in general for the windy mountain roads would it better to have the rear roll center higher? Although, that cant be the only issue. I still need to consider taking away maybe 1-2* of positive caster and bring it down to say 8*, maybe even 7*.And see if that helps. Also, like I said above, I am going to slap on a stabilizer for now to see how much that helps. a stupid steering stabilizer took my old willys from pretty much undriveable (even after fixing caster and also building all new steering) to very very easy to stay straight on the freeway. It was the most night and day difference ive ever seen on steering on any rig. So I am hoping a stupid stabilizer helps out here for the time being. I know lots of guys seem to hate them, but they dont really bother me, everything is new and caster is good , But I am sure shorter coils will also help with not only caster but getting the front roll center more in line with the rear.
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- Location
- San Diego
caster on the ball joint is better.
as far as the darting... that sounds like a symptom of having your trackbar that much shorter than the drag link.
are they both parallel now?
you may not have enough vertical separation at the frame either.
why isn't your histeer arm staying tight? are you using studs and conical nuts? a couple tack welds on the steer arm should keep it tight even if that doesn't solve it.
as far as the darting... that sounds like a symptom of having your trackbar that much shorter than the drag link.
are they both parallel now?
you may not have enough vertical separation at the frame either.
why isn't your histeer arm staying tight? are you using studs and conical nuts? a couple tack welds on the steer arm should keep it tight even if that doesn't solve it.
blondejoncherokee
NAXJA Member
- Location
- sacramento
the high steer arm had a stripped bolt, so 2 of 3 where staying snug. PO was an ass.
Ya I figured caster on the BJ was better. Yes to conicals, but I plan on tapping the hole to a bigger size and drilling out the conical washer and dithcing the spacer for the arm and running the drag link on top eventually.
I also researched cutting coils on here, and it will increase the spring rate while dropping the lift height, which is exactly what I want, so I am thinking that cutting one ring off my 5.5s should put me from 185 to roughly 201 and also drop the front an inch.
the drag link and trackbar where percectly parrallel with the drag link mounted under the high steer arm, now with them stacked its a little off, but much closer to parrallel than original.
vertical separation at the frame is 5.5" and vertical separation at the axle side is 8.5".
The lower front will not only mean a lower front roll center but overall lower CG, reduced angles on the drag link, and reduced angles on the lower arms, and I can keep messing with caster. That should help a ton.
I want to run a longer trackbar so bad. I think i can make that happen.
Ya I figured caster on the BJ was better. Yes to conicals, but I plan on tapping the hole to a bigger size and drilling out the conical washer and dithcing the spacer for the arm and running the drag link on top eventually.
I also researched cutting coils on here, and it will increase the spring rate while dropping the lift height, which is exactly what I want, so I am thinking that cutting one ring off my 5.5s should put me from 185 to roughly 201 and also drop the front an inch.
the drag link and trackbar where percectly parrallel with the drag link mounted under the high steer arm, now with them stacked its a little off, but much closer to parrallel than original.
vertical separation at the frame is 5.5" and vertical separation at the axle side is 8.5".
The lower front will not only mean a lower front roll center but overall lower CG, reduced angles on the drag link, and reduced angles on the lower arms, and I can keep messing with caster. That should help a ton.
I want to run a longer trackbar so bad. I think i can make that happen.
- Location
- Dublin California
Jon
My sweet spot for castor was 5.5* on the 44, drives perfect even when loaded in back, and I tend to bring a lot of "stuff " on wheelin trips. Toe is 1/4" positive. For the 37's I noticed that tire pressure can play a big roll in how it handles. My 37's are load range D (50 psi max) I found 23-25 psi works really well.
My sweet spot for castor was 5.5* on the 44, drives perfect even when loaded in back, and I tend to bring a lot of "stuff " on wheelin trips. Toe is 1/4" positive. For the 37's I noticed that tire pressure can play a big roll in how it handles. My 37's are load range D (50 psi max) I found 23-25 psi works really well.
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blondejoncherokee
NAXJA Member
- Location
- sacramento
Jeff,
Thanks for that info, Thats what I need to hear. I plan to chop the coils and see where that puts caster with the links as is, should drop below 10*, if not, ill adjust the upper until I see around 6-7* next and then down more from there.
my toe is about 1/16" toed in , so when you say 1/4" positive, do you mean 1/4" toed out?
I run these 36 iroks around 22 PSI on road( MAX is 30 PSI) I am thinking of going back up to 25 PSI for on road.
I set it up for 10* positive caster, so maybe its a tad too much, along with the front coil buckets being taller and the thicker 44, the front got raised more than expected.
So I will see where the shorter/stiffer cut down coil, 6-7* positive caster, and maybe toe it out another 1/16 to 0 toe in and see where that puts me.
hopefully that dials it in .
anyone else want to post up their 44/60 3 link specs for toe, caster, and maybe other info?>
plus my pinion angle is like flat to pointed down, so decreasing the positive caster will help point it back up.
Thanks for that info, Thats what I need to hear. I plan to chop the coils and see where that puts caster with the links as is, should drop below 10*, if not, ill adjust the upper until I see around 6-7* next and then down more from there.
my toe is about 1/16" toed in , so when you say 1/4" positive, do you mean 1/4" toed out?
I run these 36 iroks around 22 PSI on road( MAX is 30 PSI) I am thinking of going back up to 25 PSI for on road.
I set it up for 10* positive caster, so maybe its a tad too much, along with the front coil buckets being taller and the thicker 44, the front got raised more than expected.
So I will see where the shorter/stiffer cut down coil, 6-7* positive caster, and maybe toe it out another 1/16 to 0 toe in and see where that puts me.
hopefully that dials it in .
anyone else want to post up their 44/60 3 link specs for toe, caster, and maybe other info?>
plus my pinion angle is like flat to pointed down, so decreasing the positive caster will help point it back up.
- Location
- Dublin California
Jon
1/4" towed in, sorry my brain was on a union break
Start at 1/8" towed in, drive it, and go from there. I would drop your height first then go back and dial in the caster and tow etc.
1/4" towed in, sorry my brain was on a union break
Start at 1/8" towed in, drive it, and go from there. I would drop your height first then go back and dial in the caster and tow etc.
blondejoncherokee
NAXJA Member
- Location
- sacramento
cool. Ya we had it about 1/4" toed in, and brought it out to in between 1/8" or 1/16". I can bring the toe back in after dropping it down a bit and dialing in caster.
blondejoncherokee
NAXJA Member
- Location
- sacramento
-14" lowering coils for sale:
blondejoncherokee
NAXJA Member
- Location
- sacramento
the above round lowered the front about 1", and I adjusted the upper to around 6* of positive caster.
welded up an old shock mount and some tabs on the tie rod for my old XJ steering stabilizer. It seems to clear everything so far.
Also , you can see I lowered the axle side track bar down a slot to better align it with the drag link and also lower the roll center a bit more.
A nice side effect is that lowering the front reduced the drag link angles and also flattened out the LCAs.
welded up an old shock mount and some tabs on the tie rod for my old XJ steering stabilizer. It seems to clear everything so far.
Also , you can see I lowered the axle side track bar down a slot to better align it with the drag link and also lower the roll center a bit more.
A nice side effect is that lowering the front reduced the drag link angles and also flattened out the LCAs.
XJensen
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Sacramento
So will it be ready this weekend or you rolling up with me?
blondejoncherokee
NAXJA Member
- Location
- sacramento
it was ready to go before hand. I just made it way safer and easier to drive, I hope. We are planning on leaving sac around 1pm on friday. Can you get off that early?
blondejoncherokee
NAXJA Member
- Location
- sacramento
only things that are left are to test drive it, change o2 sensor, change tranny fluid, capture bottom of front coils, and if I get time build a tranny skid. Oh, and wire up ARB, but I can wheel with the front open for the first time in years. itll be fun. Doubt Ill have time to bring it over to your place to wire it up.
blondejoncherokee
NAXJA Member
- Location
- sacramento
So i test drove it last night. Handling seemed far better, like the suspension itself seemed very tight. the only thing is, the steering seemed to have play in it, steering seemed a little sloppy in the sense that it really wants to dart side to side . Weird.
although, when I got back from the ride i noticed that the rear driver tire was down to 16 PSI, so that could have caused it right there.
although, when I got back from the ride i noticed that the rear driver tire was down to 16 PSI, so that could have caused it right there.
XJensen
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Sacramento
Good deal. See you tomorrow.
blondejoncherokee
NAXJA Member
- Location
- sacramento
Ordered some decent bump stops, those cool prothane things. Stoked.
http://www.jegs.com/i/Prothane/311/19-1703/10002/-1
going to swap out the 5 on 4.5 beadlocks for the 5 on 5.5 rims that I have and slap on the waggy pitman arm and work on centering the steering wheel.
so heres a question that I searched .couldnt find much of anything. I have been driving the jeep with the box uncentered for like a week and wheeled knowing that and taking multiple point turns when going driver all weekend. that is, about 3/4" turn to the driver, and like 2.25 turns pass. just lazy after re clocking the pitman arm and pulling of the high steer arm in a frenzy last weekend. anyone know if a variable ratio box will cause wierd steering if the wheels are centered very close to full lock at driver side? Im pretty sure if its not centered when the wheels are centered itll do weird stuff. I also plan on slapping some leaves in the rear packs. more than likely cut the eyes off the rustys leaves since I think the bushings are toast and slap some stock mains on.
ill end up raising the trackbar frame side mount after the waggy arm, but ill gain full steering lock to lock now...
http://www.jegs.com/i/Prothane/311/19-1703/10002/-1
going to swap out the 5 on 4.5 beadlocks for the 5 on 5.5 rims that I have and slap on the waggy pitman arm and work on centering the steering wheel.
so heres a question that I searched .couldnt find much of anything. I have been driving the jeep with the box uncentered for like a week and wheeled knowing that and taking multiple point turns when going driver all weekend. that is, about 3/4" turn to the driver, and like 2.25 turns pass. just lazy after re clocking the pitman arm and pulling of the high steer arm in a frenzy last weekend. anyone know if a variable ratio box will cause wierd steering if the wheels are centered very close to full lock at driver side? Im pretty sure if its not centered when the wheels are centered itll do weird stuff. I also plan on slapping some leaves in the rear packs. more than likely cut the eyes off the rustys leaves since I think the bushings are toast and slap some stock mains on.
ill end up raising the trackbar frame side mount after the waggy arm, but ill gain full steering lock to lock now...
