retubing an axle

[Vanimal]

so here's where you can say "i told you so"
looks like the chevy tube diameters are smaller than the ford. so no stealing those tubes like i had planned. My only option is to buy new tubing, which isnt cheap from what i can tell.
I called currie, they said retubing the axle with 3" tube would be between 250-300 depending on how clean it is. the tubing will probably cost me that much alone.
still worth it IMO, considering the price i paid for the axle. at least this axle has welded c's so they can be used.

 

[VAhasnoWAVES]

the thing is i have never paid for labor, except for getting tires mounted and balanced. not on my house, and not on my cars. i would rather struggle and learn how to do something, even if it's the hard way, and be able to look at it and know that i did it myself. it's not so much the money thing. and after talking to my friend this morning who has done it, i think i will give it a shot.

as someone who has said a lot of curse words ands busted knuckles doing jobs for the first time...

ive started to consider my time investing in a project as labor hours. after all, time is money. if i buy all the materials and spend 12 hours on a job that i could have payed someone $50 to do (hypothetically)... i have not invested my time wisely. the $50 would have been worth having it done for me. just because i can do it myself, doesnt mean i always should, or have to.

pride in your work is one thing. an ego is another... dont confuse the two.

/life talk.






id still wait for a ford 44 with welded wedges, and just be ready to buy when one does appear. but you know your area better than i do. take some measurements, be sure that currie sets pinion angle and castor for you. and youll have the luxury of chosing your width.


my question is... with all the different forces put on the center section with retubing it, is it really a good option to do simply because its already geared/locked? im thinking that youd want to reset them just for piece of mind and longevity. when your talking thousandths of an inch, to me it seems that there is the very real possibility of the gears falling out of spec. or am i completely wrong?

 

[kastein]

you aren't completely wrong IMO.

That being said I somewhat disagree. If it is a job you will have to do again in the future, or can make decent money doing for others after you learn it, I have no problem doing it myself and buying tools instead of paying someone to do it.

 

[VAhasnoWAVES]

That being said I somewhat disagree. If it is a job you will have to do again in the future, or can make decent money doing for others after you learn it, I have no problem doing it myself and buying tools instead of paying someone to do it.

thats a valid point... if specialized tools are needed. or shop tools that i generally dont have access to, or its something that ill likely only do once or twice... ever... then maybe its not for me.

 

[Vanimal]

as someone who has said a lot of curse words ands busted knuckles doing jobs for the first time...

ive started to consider my time investing in a project as labor hours. after all, time is money. if i buy all the materials and spend 12 hours on a job that i could have payed someone $50 to do (hypothetically)... i have not invested my time wisely. the $50 would have been worth having it done for me. just because i can do it myself, doesnt mean i always should, or have to.

pride in your work is one thing. an ego is another... dont confuse the two.

/life talk.






id still wait for a ford 44 with welded wedges, and just be ready to buy when one does appear. but you know your area better than i do. take some measurements, be sure that currie sets pinion angle and castor for you. and youll have the luxury of chosing your width.


my question is... with all the different forces put on the center section with retubing it, is it really a good option to do simply because its already geared/locked? im thinking that youd want to reset them just for piece of mind and longevity. when your talking thousandths of an inch, to me it seems that there is the very real possibility of the gears falling out of spec. or am i completely wrong?

i am aware of the time wasted doing things myself when i can pay far less than my time costs to have someone else do it. that doesnt matter to me, i'd still rather do it myself to some extent.
this axle actually has welded c's, and according to currie (i called them this morning), they said some do, and if it does, they'll work fine. but i still have the chevy c's which they said they could use as well. and again, there are NO other axles around. i've searched daily for over 4 months, and still nothing, zip, nada. so i'm done wasting my time looking (time is money, right?)
as for gears falling out of spec, i dont care, i'm pulling them anyways. it doesnt have a locker, but i do have an elocker for it, so i need to pull them anyways. i will install the gears myself, like i did in the d44 for the rear.

 

[Vanimal]

thats a valid point... if specialized tools are needed. or shop tools that i generally dont have access to, or its something that ill likely only do once or twice... ever... then maybe its not for me.

i already pretty much have everything, i have a full machine shop with cnc machines, welders, plasma, presses, mills, lathes, etc.
if i dont have it, i can easily make it. this is why i usually try to do things by myself. paying someone else to do it would be like a tailor renting a tuxedo. call it a pride/ego thing, but it's just how i am. if i can find a good deal on the DOM i need, i may still do it myself, but i dont even think my ego will let me pay more for the tubing than to have someone else do the whole job

 

[Vanimal]

aside from the tubing, i'm trying to work out axle shafts. i have 3 options, i can get some waggy inners and shorten it accordingly, i can have some custom alloy inner shafts made for $190 each, or i can have my buddy respline and shorten the stock shafts.
the cheapest route is going to be having my friend shorten them, i can get 2 shafts plus some trail spares done for next to nothing. My only concern here is if the stock shafts are case hardened, how hard they are, and how deep they are hardened if they are case hardened. He can still cut them if they're about 40-45rc, but i'm worried about cutting under the hardened surface. these would just be somewhat temporary until i can pay for some custom ones.

 

[VAhasnoWAVES]

sorry, i was under the impression that the center section you had was geared/locked, not that you simply had the parts lying around.

if your retubing, why make it so that you need custom shafts? there are a lot of options... fill width, waggy, rubicon 44... you could also check to see what lengths passenger drop stuff uses to get your desired width, on the long side and short side. just bouncing some ideas out there. i think having a JY options as spares would be appealing, even after you invest in chromos... and then, your chromos wont have to be custom lengths.

 

[Vanimal]

sorry, i was under the impression that the center section you had was geared/locked, not that you simply had the parts lying around.

if your retubing, why make it so that you need custom shafts? there are a lot of options... fill width, waggy, rubicon 44... you could also check to see what lengths passenger drop stuff uses to get your desired width, on the long side and short side. just bouncing some ideas out there. i think having a JY options as spares would be appealing, even after you invest in chromos... and then, your chromos wont have to be custom lengths.

it came geared with what i wanted, but i'll probably change the pinion bearing since it could be pretty old, and when i change the carrier out for the elocker, i will change the carrier bearings, and at that point it's more or less a regear anyways.
junkyard axles would be nice to have as an option, and that's what i'm leaning to. aren't rubicon axles no better than d30 though? i thought they were 27 spline. waggy shafts are probably the best option though. i've been reading mr. n's site for all that info, but what throws me off on the waggy shafts is the fact that the passenger side shaft length is nearly that of a full width axle, and the driver's side is almost 4" shorter. that really moves the pumpkin over to the driver's side. i havent checked the relation to the d30 yet, but it was just an observation.

 

[Vanimal]

so i got a tip on a local place with a good price on steel. i can get a 3" OD .250" wall piece in the length i need for $75. this is chromoly, not DOM. the thinnest wall DOM they have is .375, and it is $60. the .25" chromoly tube will be similar in strength but lighter, so i was thinking of going with that. i hear currie uses 3"od 3/16" wall DOM, so i figured this would be plenty good. what do you guys think? any reasons why chromo is a bad idea? Wall thickness too thin/thick?
In typical a-hole internet forum user fashion, i will be going against everyone's opinion and i'll be doing this myself I'm sure you're all right and it would be far better to pay someone, but i really want to try this myself. I have the means to set up the center section and properly bore it out parrellel and concentric to the carrier bearings, check the tubes for straightness after i weld them in, and make adjustments if need be. I decided i think i will be using rubicon inner shafts just for the sake of being able to find them everywhere.

 

[MoparManiac]

I guess I'll be the first to respond.

so i got a tip on a local place with a good price on steel. i can get a 3" OD .250" wall piece in the length i need for $75. this is chromoly, not DOM. the thinnest wall DOM they have is .375, and it is $60. the .25" chromoly tube will be similar in strength but lighter, so i was thinking of going with that. i hear currie uses 3"od 3/16" wall DOM, so i figured this would be plenty good. what do you guys think? any reasons why chromo is a bad idea? Wall thickness too thin/thick?

1. I'm not a metallurgist, but how do you weld chromoly to the cast center section and not lose the advantage of using it in the first place?

2. My F250 HP44 used 3" x .500" tubes. I would use nothing less (in DOM) without a truss.

In typical a-hole internet forum user fashion, i will be going against everyone's opinion and i'll be doing this myself I'm sure you're all right and it would be far better to pay someone, but i really want to try this myself. I have the means to set up the center section and properly bore it out parrellel and concentric to the carrier bearings, check the tubes for straightness after i weld them in, and make adjustments if need be.

Nothing wrong with doing it yourself, but not sure why you would have to bore out the center section. I've never done this myself, but I've seen several done with alignment bars/jigs.

I decided i think i will be using rubicon inner shafts just for the sake of being able to find them everywhere.

Find them everywhere as in used/for sale? If you mean JY, I've NEVER seen a Rubicon complete in the JY.

 

[kastein]

I also would not go any lower than half inch wall for the axle tubes. Anything less is a downgrade, if you are going to spend so much time putting the axle together, you should go for doing it right while you are in there.

 

[Vanimal]

I guess I'll be the first to respond.



1. I'm not a metallurgist, but how do you weld chromoly to the cast center section and not lose the advantage of using it in the first place?

2. My F250 HP44 used 3" x .500" tubes. I would use nothing less (in DOM) without a truss.

the point of using the stronger alloy is to be able to use a thinner wall thickness to achieve the same yield strength (resistance to bending). so i'm not sure if i understand what you're saying.... wouldn't 1/2" thick be a waste as well with your reasoning? Plenty of companies use 3/16" or .25" wall DOM tubing, and chromoly is signifigantly stronger. 3" od 1/2" wall mild steel tubing is *maybe* 10% stronger than 3" .250 wall chromoly, but twice as heavy. And most d44's do not have 3" tubing, so you must have the HD HP44. Most have 2 3/4, which would be weaker 3" .250 wall chromoly.
But with that said, that's all engineer mubo jumbo, real world experience is something different, which is why i asked. i could be missing something.
BUT keep in mind i am only going up to 33's, and i still havent even broken anything in my d30 or d35. i'm not going to have a gnarly trail rig on 42's.

Nothing wrong with doing it yourself, but not sure why you would have to bore out the center section. I've never done this myself, but I've seen several done with alignment bars/jigs.

it needs to be bored out to fit 3" tubes as the stock tubes are about 2.96". i can turn down the tubes instead, but from what i understand from people who do it on a regular basis, i'm probably just better off boring out that .04". .02" per wall isnt bad.

Find them everywhere as in used/for sale? If you mean JY, I've NEVER seen a Rubicon complete in the JY.

i see them quite often on craigslist (shafts). plus every vendor in the world probably carrys them.

 

[kastein]

it needs to be bored out to fit 3" tubes as the stock tubes are about 2.96". i can turn down the tubes instead, but from what i understand from people who do it on a regular basis, i'm probably just better off boring out that .04". .02" per wall isnt bad.

this I fully agree with. The tubing will come with a fairly accurately dimensioned outside, the old cast that you've just ripped an axle tube out of probably won't be as good. I would probably drill out the plug welds, THEN turn it to the right diameter, as that will push any milling burrs into the plug weld holes rather than into the axle tube hole so you won't have to worry about cleaning them up or handling any slight deformation drilling the welds out will cause.

I really want to see how you plan on jigging this to bore those holes out accurately to be concentric with the bearing caps and not at some screwy angle. Not that I think you'll do it wrong, I just want to see how it's done.

 

[MoparManiac]

If you're only going up to 33s, I don't even see the need for a D44 then.

And yes, an F250 HP44 is an HD44 if you want to call it that. 8 lug outers factory. However, I used 5 lug outers.

 

[Vanimal]

this I fully agree with. The tubing will come with a fairly accurately dimensioned outside, the old cast that you've just ripped an axle tube out of probably won't be as good. I would probably drill out the plug welds, THEN turn it to the right diameter, as that will push any milling burrs into the plug weld holes rather than into the axle tube hole so you won't have to worry about cleaning them up or handling any slight deformation drilling the welds out will cause.

I really want to see how you plan on jigging this to bore those holes out accurately to be concentric with the bearing caps and not at some screwy angle. Not that I think you'll do it wrong, I just want to see how it's done.

that was exactly the plan.
As for boring it out and keeping everything concentric, i'll either make a bar that fits into the pinion bearings or replaces the pinion bearings that i can indicate to find center and run an indicator up and down to check for squareness of my setup. I'll likely bolt the housing to a large angle iron where i can lay it over and check that the pinion bearings are parellel with eachother on the granite plate before i put it on the mill. my angle iron is pretty damn square so that will probably get it spot on the first time anyways. not too hard really, i've definitely done far worse jobs. i think the c's will be harder as there isnt much to locate or clamp on for the setup.

 

[kastein]

If you wanted you could actually buy brand new Cs from Reid. They are pricey but made right every time, brand new, a pretty orange color, and will fit exactly.

 

[Vanimal]

If you're only going up to 33s, I don't even see the need for a D44 then.

And yes, an F250 HP44 is an HD44 if you want to call it that. 8 lug outers factory. However, I used 5 lug outers.

i'm going with the 44 because it's actually going to save me money by the time i sell my built d30. and why not, it's my hobby, i enjoy doing it.
i may go to 35's down the road, but i'm in no rush.
Also, i feel that i'm probably going to be harder on my heep than other people i wheel with that have similarly built d30's on 33's and have broken them several times. i'm NOT easy on my jeep.

 

[Vanimal]

If you wanted you could actually buy brand new Cs from Reid. They are pricey but made right every time, brand new, a pretty orange color, and will fit exactly.

ah yes, i've seen those. but as cheap as i am, i think i'll spend the time to set these up haha

 

[Vanimal]

so after speaking with currie, seems like chromoly is a waste (i know, you told me so). One thing they mentioned that i overlooked (and i should know better) was that to really benefit from it, it should be heat treated after welding because it's probably annealed in those areas i welded (which are also the weak points). so it's somewhat pointless to go with chromoly.
They informed me that they use 3"od 5/16" wall DOM, and trussing wouldnt really be neccesary. I'm not saying thier word is gold, but it's at least a starting point.
My local supplier can get me 3/8" wall DOM for $60 so i might just go that route since the weight savings would be minimal, and i can get it local.