cheapcherokee93
<----boat-manche
- Location
- Guadalahabra, CA
holy crap thats a ton of reading.
cliff notes???
cliff notes???
Pre-runner type suspension stuff
- Thread starter Goatman
- Start date
GrimmJeeper
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Gardena, CA
- Location
- Bakersfield, CA
Funny that this thread is still floating around, after what, 8 years? Look where we've come. 
slappomatt
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- San Diego CA,
save your money up and do it right the first time
let me qoute this one more time for effect. Ask anyone who is into go fast and has rebuilt their entire rig and wheels and tires $$$$$$$$$$$$ 4 times to get where they are and they will all say the same thing. save your cash and figure out where you want to end up and go there first.
KRAKER
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- where blank stares are normal
Darky
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- 29 Palms, CA
Andhi Satria
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Jakarta, INDONESIA
Front Independent Cherokee 97 with 2JZ Turbo.
This is the 1st Jeep Cherokee (1997) in Indonesia, utilizing DOUBLE WISHBONE Front A-ARM dan 2JZ Engine for Offroad Racing in Jakarta, INDONESIA.
This is the 1st Jeep Cherokee (1997) in Indonesia, utilizing DOUBLE WISHBONE Front A-ARM dan 2JZ Engine for Offroad Racing in Jakarta, INDONESIA.
- Location
- Wasatch Range
More details am photos of this IFS setup please!
Andhi Satria
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Jakarta, INDONESIA
frijolee
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Big Island, HI
Bumping an old thread because I've been reading quite a bit and not finding what I'm looking for (but this is as close as I've come)
Summary of notes to date (having just read this entire thread).
-275/78 front and 255/70 rear is a common recommendation for damping on all around rigs that both crawl and like to go fast on occasion. Some guys like 360/80 front but this is getting damn firm. Bilstein’s guide can recommend either. https://www.my4by.com/bilstein-valving-guide
-Best practice is to flex test before committing to shock lengths… That said, at about 6” lift (reasonable for going faster) 12” travel fronts and 10” travel rears are common
-Many of the better shocks will require converting to a 1/2” eye style top mount. TandJ makes a nice conversion. JKS has an OK one but they sometimes loosen up so TandJ (or custom fab) seems like best practice.
-Lower front shock mount relocation is common too: typically a drop moving the lower mount point outboard of the lower control arm pockets
-7100 Short Bodies seem like the "go to" at high end of the low end. I don’t much like how the reservoir hose on the 7100s exit the shock (rigid, pointing up and out). The 5160s (direct fit) or 5165 seems like a better option if one prefers to have the reservoir mounted to the shock body. Compare the orientation of the hoses.
7100
5165
-I can’t tell you why sometimes the 7100s have a blue rubber hose and sometime a SS hose.
-There’s a slight challenge that the Bilstein catalog (https://cart.bilsteinus.com/Portals/0/PDF/BILSTEINORCatalog2020_WEB.pdf) doesn’t publish either lengths or damping for their direct fit stuff. Eshocks.com appears to be gone. So if anyone knows of a searchable resource that might be handy.
-It appears that the 5165s can be custom valved but they only come with 255/70 and 360/80 by default. Unfortunately, that seems to skip over the more common valving recommendation at 275/78. More notes on valving 7100s here: https://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=994685
-Front spring rates in the 230 to 240 lbs/in are popular (Skyjacker, BDS, maybe Deaver). In the rear, everyone just calls Deaver.
Questions
-Are the stem style shock tops inherently limiting? I’ve blow up several sets of shock bushings which is annoying but not that expensive all things considered.
-Several folks allude to failures of the rear shock upper mounting within the thread. Anyone have pictures of where how it fails? My rig sees quite a bit of daily driving as well so I need to keep the shocks outside (not cutting body for towers) but I’d love to find a way to reinforce the original mount.
-I’m running Bilstein 5100s in the back of my rig now and the bushings are cracked. Is this a systemic issue with Bilsteins?
-Stupid question, but do 5100s have a top and bottom? I’ve seen them installed both ways.
-If someone were willing to spend some coin beyond 7100 SBs, what's the next step up? I can find some guys talking about 2.5 class shocks but little info on more specific recommendations. I’m not sure I really need it but I’d like to know. I've been running some longer trail rides and I keep blowing up my top shock bushings so I'm thinking it time to go a notch more serious, the question is how serious?
2.5 class shocks seems like they start around $400 per. One weird bit is that it seems like King or Fox smooth body 2.5s come in notably longer body lengths for a given travel. Compare:
---King 10" smooth body (KRS-PR2510-SSPB) is 18.3" collapsed length
---Bilstein 7100 SB (AK7110SB) is 14.3" collapsed length
-King and Fox seems to rate their damping based on shim stacks. IE “10/12” damping would be a tapering shim stack with 0.010” shims on rebound and 0.012” shims on compression. (https://www.crawlpedia.com/shock_tuning.htm). Bilstein’s ratings are Newtons of resistance 255 = 2550 compression but I don’t know at what speed. Anyone know how to make comparisons between the two rating styles?
Anyways, good resources like this thread are why I love the forums, so I'm hoping some folks can help me out (while in turn I hope the clarifications help others.)
Regards,
-Joel
Summary of notes to date (having just read this entire thread).
-275/78 front and 255/70 rear is a common recommendation for damping on all around rigs that both crawl and like to go fast on occasion. Some guys like 360/80 front but this is getting damn firm. Bilstein’s guide can recommend either. https://www.my4by.com/bilstein-valving-guide
-Best practice is to flex test before committing to shock lengths… That said, at about 6” lift (reasonable for going faster) 12” travel fronts and 10” travel rears are common
-Many of the better shocks will require converting to a 1/2” eye style top mount. TandJ makes a nice conversion. JKS has an OK one but they sometimes loosen up so TandJ (or custom fab) seems like best practice.
-Lower front shock mount relocation is common too: typically a drop moving the lower mount point outboard of the lower control arm pockets
-7100 Short Bodies seem like the "go to" at high end of the low end. I don’t much like how the reservoir hose on the 7100s exit the shock (rigid, pointing up and out). The 5160s (direct fit) or 5165 seems like a better option if one prefers to have the reservoir mounted to the shock body. Compare the orientation of the hoses.
7100
5165
-I can’t tell you why sometimes the 7100s have a blue rubber hose and sometime a SS hose.
-There’s a slight challenge that the Bilstein catalog (https://cart.bilsteinus.com/Portals/0/PDF/BILSTEINORCatalog2020_WEB.pdf) doesn’t publish either lengths or damping for their direct fit stuff. Eshocks.com appears to be gone. So if anyone knows of a searchable resource that might be handy.
-It appears that the 5165s can be custom valved but they only come with 255/70 and 360/80 by default. Unfortunately, that seems to skip over the more common valving recommendation at 275/78. More notes on valving 7100s here: https://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=994685
-Front spring rates in the 230 to 240 lbs/in are popular (Skyjacker, BDS, maybe Deaver). In the rear, everyone just calls Deaver.
Questions
-Are the stem style shock tops inherently limiting? I’ve blow up several sets of shock bushings which is annoying but not that expensive all things considered.
-Several folks allude to failures of the rear shock upper mounting within the thread. Anyone have pictures of where how it fails? My rig sees quite a bit of daily driving as well so I need to keep the shocks outside (not cutting body for towers) but I’d love to find a way to reinforce the original mount.
-I’m running Bilstein 5100s in the back of my rig now and the bushings are cracked. Is this a systemic issue with Bilsteins?
-Stupid question, but do 5100s have a top and bottom? I’ve seen them installed both ways.
-If someone were willing to spend some coin beyond 7100 SBs, what's the next step up? I can find some guys talking about 2.5 class shocks but little info on more specific recommendations. I’m not sure I really need it but I’d like to know. I've been running some longer trail rides and I keep blowing up my top shock bushings so I'm thinking it time to go a notch more serious, the question is how serious?
2.5 class shocks seems like they start around $400 per. One weird bit is that it seems like King or Fox smooth body 2.5s come in notably longer body lengths for a given travel. Compare:
---King 10" smooth body (KRS-PR2510-SSPB) is 18.3" collapsed length
---Bilstein 7100 SB (AK7110SB) is 14.3" collapsed length
-King and Fox seems to rate their damping based on shim stacks. IE “10/12” damping would be a tapering shim stack with 0.010” shims on rebound and 0.012” shims on compression. (https://www.crawlpedia.com/shock_tuning.htm). Bilstein’s ratings are Newtons of resistance 255 = 2550 compression but I don’t know at what speed. Anyone know how to make comparisons between the two rating styles?
Anyways, good resources like this thread are why I love the forums, so I'm hoping some folks can help me out (while in turn I hope the clarifications help others.)
Regards,
-Joel
frijolee
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Big Island, HI
Answered one of my own questions. Bilsteins are intended to mount in whatever orientation shows the label correctly.
Blindtheft
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- United States
Bumping an old thread because I've been reading quite a bit and not finding what I'm looking for (but this is as close as I've come)
Summary of notes to date (having just read this entire thread).
-275/78 front and 255/70 rear is a common recommendation for damping on all around rigs that both crawl and like to go fast on occasion. Some guys like 360/80 front but this is getting damn firm. Bilstein’s guide can recommend either. https://www.my4by.com/bilstein-valving-guide
-Best practice is to flex test before committing to shock lengths… That said, at about 6” lift (reasonable for going faster) 12” travel fronts and 10” travel rears are common
-Many of the better shocks will require converting to a 1/2” eye style top mount. TandJ makes a nice conversion. JKS has an OK one but they sometimes loosen up so TandJ (or custom fab) seems like best practice.
-Lower front shock mount relocation is common too: typically a drop moving the lower mount point outboard of the lower control arm pockets
-7100 Short Bodies seem like the "go to" at high end of the low end. I don’t much like how the reservoir hose on the 7100s exit the shock (rigid, pointing up and out). The 5160s (direct fit) or 5165 seems like a better option if one prefers to have the reservoir mounted to the shock body. Compare the orientation of the hoses.
7100
5165
-I can’t tell you why sometimes the 7100s have a blue rubber hose and sometime a SS hose.
-There’s a slight challenge that the Bilstein catalog (https://cart.bilsteinus.com/Portals/0/PDF/BILSTEINORCatalog2020_WEB.pdf) doesn’t publish either lengths or damping for their direct fit stuff. Eshocks.com appears to be gone. So if anyone knows of a searchable resource that might be handy.
-It appears that the 5165s can be custom valved but they only come with 255/70 and 360/80 by default. Unfortunately, that seems to skip over the more common valving recommendation at 275/78. More notes on valving 7100s here: https://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=994685
-Front spring rates in the 230 to 240 lbs/in are popular (Skyjacker, BDS, maybe Deaver). In the rear, everyone just calls Deaver.
Questions
-Are the stem style shock tops inherently limiting? I’ve blow up several sets of shock bushings which is annoying but not that expensive all things considered.
-Several folks allude to failures of the rear shock upper mounting within the thread. Anyone have pictures of where how it fails? My rig sees quite a bit of daily driving as well so I need to keep the shocks outside (not cutting body for towers) but I’d love to find a way to reinforce the original mount.
-I’m running Bilstein 5100s in the back of my rig now and the bushings are cracked. Is this a systemic issue with Bilsteins?
-Stupid question, but do 5100s have a top and bottom? I’ve seen them installed both ways.
-If someone were willing to spend some coin beyond 7100 SBs, what's the next step up? I can find some guys talking about 2.5 class shocks but little info on more specific recommendations. I’m not sure I really need it but I’d like to know. I've been running some longer trail rides and I keep blowing up my top shock bushings so I'm thinking it time to go a notch more serious, the question is how serious?
2.5 class shocks seems like they start around $400 per. One weird bit is that it seems like King or Fox smooth body 2.5s come in notably longer body lengths for a given travel. Compare:
---King 10" smooth body (KRS-PR2510-SSPB) is 18.3" collapsed length
---Bilstein 7100 SB (AK7110SB) is 14.3" collapsed length
-King and Fox seems to rate their damping based on shim stacks. IE “10/12” damping would be a tapering shim stack with 0.010” shims on rebound and 0.012” shims on compression. (https://www.crawlpedia.com/shock_tuning.htm). Bilstein’s ratings are Newtons of resistance 255 = 2550 compression but I don’t know at what speed. Anyone know how to make comparisons between the two rating styles?
Anyways, good resources like this thread are why I love the forums, so I'm hoping some folks can help me out (while in turn I hope the clarifications help others.)
Regards,
-Joel
The hose angle referenced above is an issue for me at the moment. I am installing in the rear, with the JKS bar pin eliminators. I know others here have run this set up, but I can't see how. Is cutting clearance for the hose expected? Am I missing something else?
See pics below. This is the driver's side (rear) and the hose is point towards the passenger side. I tried flipping it the other way so that the hose points towards the drivers side and that is even less feasible.
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