O2 sensor won't budge.

[lawagoneer]

Bimmerjeeper first stop whining, second I understand how easy it is to get frustrated when an apparently simple job doesn't go right. That frustration sets up a negative mind set that becomes self re-enforcing as things spiral downwards. I've read this whole thread, name calling and all, and have a suggestion, spend 10-20 dollars on a 22mm wrench, as good a quality as you can find, put the box end on the sensor then smack the crap out of the other end of the wrench with a BFH, that's a big freaking hammer, to loosen. Remember righty tighty lefty loosey. Sometimes frozen bolts need a little impact to break them loose.
I started working on cars and building hot rods with a basic socket and wrench set. Paid, traded and begged others for help with things I didn't have the equipment to do, hit my first MIG about 10 years ago. Over the years I built several class legal NHRA bracket racers in my driveway with very basic tools, determination, time and ignorance of what I couldn't do. If I didn't know something I'd read about it in books, started long befor the Internet was around, and gave it a try. As I needed them I bought tools I didn't have for projects I was working on at the time. Over the nearly 40 years I've been wrenching on cars, trucks, motorcycles, tractors, boats........ you get the picture I've learned a lot and have accumulated many thousands of dollars of tools and shop equipment but I can still fix most anything on my Jeep with the socket set and small tool box I carry in it. If you can't fix it I give you props for trying so take it to a muffler shop and they'll change it for you.
Negative attitude is the best way to fail at something. Working on old machines, my XJ is a 1989 left to me by my father, it is often necessary to use heat and bruit force to get things loose. I can't however understand your lack of knowledge for safely jacking and placing a vehicle on jack stands. I used to be chief mechanic for an Autocross team racing Alfa Romaro Spiders and GTA's, we frequently had these low slung cars on jack stands, my point being if you have worked on ricers then you should know these basic procedures. If you don't then most community colleges offer basic mechanics classes that will teach you these basics. Good luck with your Jeep.

 

[MaxxXJ]

The times are right from a Jeep dealer quote.

Starter 1.5 hours 30 minutes
Valve Cover Gasket 1.5 hours45 minutes tops
New heater hoses 1.5 hours15 minutes considering its 2 hoses.
TrackBar 1 hour15 minutes or less, it's 1 10mm bolt and 1 tre, if it's stock no adjustment is needed and it's a quick in and out process
Front Shocks 1 hour 30 minutes takin your time
Window Regualtor 1.5 hours never done a window regulator so idk

Everyone on this forum will say each of these things take 15 mins.
So, either the forum is full of crap, or the hours are inflated.

 

[nick86]

Oh, yeah & I love charging people $$ to scan their mil & tighten their fuel cap. It's amazing how no one will admit to putting gas in with it running when every morning I stop for coffee I see at least 3 or more doing it.

 

[nick86]

You have to remember those of us in the shops wait for an hour to get parts from the parts store. Who's paying for that time, not me.

 

[kastein]

Maxx, there actually is an adjustment for a track bar, you have to adjust the drag link to center the steering wheel again unless you get extremely lucky. Also up here in the rust belt those fasteners suck, in socal I can see it being a 15 minute job. Hell with a torch it's a 15 minute job even in the rust belt, but with hand tools it can really suck unless it's been off in the last few years. Luck and skill make it easier.

Otherwise I agree mostly with your estimates.

 

[bimmerjeeper]

Your an idiot. you have no idea what it cost to operate a shop, overhead, ha,ha. Who do you thinks pays the heat bill for that shop & lobby. Who pays for the techs 401k & health ins. The tech doesn't get even close for they do for people like you that don't even know how to change your own oil, or just to plain lazy. Oh, by the way, I am one of those ASE techs that have to bail you out when you can't do it. Your welcome.

You clearly didn't read what I wrote. I explicitly said the tech doesn't make that b/c I knew someone would miss the entire point and respond as you did. The point is that if this work is sooooo easy, and people could actually do it themselves in 15 minutes, then they would. Let me repeat what I said so you understand: People are paying $250 for 15 minutes of work. I did not say a mechanic is taking home the $250. Again, the point is that people are paying someone $250 for a task that takes 15 mins to do. Is it because they're lazy? I don't classify people who work 60 hours a week as lazy. Use your brain and think of what the real reason is.

Don't tell me I am full of crap on those time estimates, either. I seem to recall proving you wrong pretty handily last time, and I'm not wasting my time making more videos of you being wrong this time.

Did you notice the word "or"? Either that times are bullshit or the hours are inflated. Yes, the hours are inflated. Thank you for proving my point, which you missed. The point I was making in the shop hours was that people are paying $250-$400 for work that takes 15-30 mins. Why? B/c this stuff is so damn simple a 6 year old can do it? Right? See above.

I'm still trying to figure out how this takes that long?? If I recall you just take two clamps off and pull the hose, put in new hose, re tighten clamps........ Or am I missing something lol that should be a total if at most realistic time like 15 min.

Right, that's the whole point. See above.

I seem to recall proving you wrong pretty handily last time, and I'm not wasting my time making more videos of you being wrong this time.

Try to replace those bulbs without taking out those additional 3 screws. My XJ does not have those additional 3 screws that enabled pulling the faceplace down so much. That's why it took me an hour.

 

[ocean_jet]

The tech doesn't get even close for they do for people like you that don't even know how to change your own oil, or just to plain lazy..

You clearly didn't read ..

I don't classify people who work 60 hours a week as lazy. Use your brain and think of what the real reason is ....

Did you notice the word "or"?

LOL

 

[Demonoid369]

. The point is that if this work is sooooo easy, and people could actually do it themselves in 15 minutes, then they would. Let me repeat what I said so you understand: People are paying $250 for 15 minutes of work. I did not say a mechanic is taking home the $250. Again, the point is that people are paying someone $250 for a task that takes 15 mins to do. Is it because they're lazy?

It is east, you know why they charge so much for such a simple task? Because they know your ignorant and dumb.... Shops know this type of stuff is easy, but they also know people's ignorance and stupidity to realize that this work is easy. Doing actual body work or truly harder thing like boring out a piston, replacing a piston ring, fixing a flex plate, etc...... That's what they're for, because its true, not many people have a engine hoist to take a engine out or a body lift to get under and take a transmission out. But that isn't always the case because those things last a long time, so why not add the job of fixing simple tasks that they know are easy but because people are lazy, yes lazy, ignorant and dumb. It's usually good business riding off of others incompetence to do simple things. Ever look at chefs? We all know how to cook, hell we can look up online and do a fancy recipe but yet we still charge $35 for a piece of meat with bacon around it.............. Doesn't sound to hard huh? But people still go out and do it.

 

[kastein]

Try to replace those bulbs without taking out those additional 3 screws. My XJ does not have those additional 3 screws that enabled pulling the faceplace down so much. That's why it took me an hour.

Yes it does.

 

[bimmerjeeper]

Because they know your ignorant and dumb.... .

Classic. I'm adding this to my sig.

And no, if it were easy people would do it themselves.
Ever seen someone charge $250 to change a light bulb?
Why not? It's easy and people are ignorant and lazy!

People eat at nice restaurants b/c most people are terrible cooks.
It takes years of experience to be a master who can create new recipes that work brilliantly.
Yea, and if you're doing it for a living and cook 50 meals a night, you'll live in a bubble, and think it's stupid easy.
Just like hardcore gearheads who have wrenched for 40 years.
Guess what. Surgeons tell me how stupid easy their job is. And they bill $20,000 for an afternoon of work!
Why don't people just to it themselves? Stupid and ignorant, that's why! Yea, that's it.

That's what they're for, because its true, not many people have a engine hoist to take a engine out .

Actually, swapping an engine is stupid simple. Just yesterday, I saw a 12 year old doing it in his driveway with just a $1 screwdriver. Only a complete idiot can't swap an engine inside of 15 mins. It's actually easier than changing an air filter. Only a moron needs directions. You just need to go do it and be creative. You don't even need tools, just use your hands. You can finish the whole thing before you finish your beer!

 

[souske]

Classic. I'm adding this to my sig.

Huh?

 

[bimmerjeeper]

Huh?

you're

 

[Ecomike]

Hm... that's a new jack stand spot if I've ever seen one.

Most people go with that nice little spot to the right of the control arm bracket in your picture, between the bracket and the inner C

I have used that spot before.

 

[Original_MudButt]

producing products with huge amounts of relevant details missing (and not even knowing it)

So you need a 3 page write up on how to turn a wrench??

Use your brain and try to figure out why a high school dropout can effectively charge people $500/hr

That's rather condescending.... You are saying mechanics are all high school drop outs??

I've been under the XJ for the last 5 days in a row

Which could have been avoided had you gone out and spent 20 dollars for the right size wrench. Your not very bright are you? I bet even the high school dropouts you mentioned above can figure that one out.

professional caliber set of tools at your disposal (torches, vices, grinders, air compressors, etc)

You forget the most specialized tool there is.... An awl.


Please get back under your bridge and stop trolling...

 

[scottmcneal]

Man i can't wait for his. I GOT DW thread.

Dear god that is going to be the funnest one of all i think

 

[dcampbell98XJ]

I love how there is more time spent arguing with everyone on the forum then just figuring out what needs to be done. Get yourself a Chilton manual and you should be able to figure out just about everything on these XJs. the newest cherokee is still atleast 10 years old and most show the signs of it. I live in the Northeast and so has my jeep its entire life with a previous owner in MASS. I changed my O2 sensor in my parking lot at work with a pair of vise grips and a BFH. the bung was totally stripped out and had to drive across town to get a chaser. all in all it took a total of 45 minutes with driving around. Use PB like suggested. Dont complain about your tools. Your 1000.00 dollars in tools is more then i have and i managed to install my 3.5" lift in my drive way on jack stands. it took me a solid weekend considering everything was seized and frozen in place but it can be done. I hate Whiners and dont argue with people who know what they are talking about. Im sure if you werent a **** someone would have gladly given you a hand that was local but you burned those bridges.

 

[bimmerjeeper]

I love how there is more time spent arguing with everyone on the forum then just figuring out what needs to be done. Get yourself a Chilton manual and you should be able to figure out just about everything on these XJs. the newest cherokee is still atleast 10 years old and most show the signs of it. I live in the Northeast and so has my jeep its entire life with a previous owner in MASS. I changed my O2 sensor in my parking lot at work with a pair of vise grips and a BFH. the bung was totally stripped out and had to drive across town to get a chaser. all in all it took a total of 45 minutes with driving around. Use PB like suggested. Dont complain about your tools. Your 1000.00 dollars in tools is more then i have and i managed to install my 3.5" lift in my drive way on jack stands. it took me a solid weekend considering everything was seized and frozen in place but it can be done. I hate Whiners and dont argue with people who know what they are talking about. Im sure if you werent a **** someone would have gladly given you a hand that was local but you burned those bridges.

Wait, so a Chilton manual would have made this job go smoothly? Do you understand that it wasn't the procedure that was the issue here? The procedure is simple. It's the inherent nature of a 14 year old XJ with an O2 underneath the car. This is why XJ's are for experts only. All the Chilton reading in the world isn't going to make rusted bolt come out. You know what makes it come out? Heavy duty tools like torches.

I did use PB. For 4 days. Did you miss that part? Sorry, but using a vice grip sounds like terrible advice for a bolt that's rusted solid. Who knew that a tool that says "O2 sensor socket" is the wrong tool?
I guess you need to be in the biz or have mechanic relatives to let you in on these industry secrets. Same reason I didn't use a 22mm wrench, even if my beginner toolset came with one.

I considered using a BFH but saw the exhaust flexing so much that I didn't want to tear the exhaust off the car. Then, I'd really be screwed. Also, there really was no leverage to get anything behind the hammer. I'd have to swing it towards my chest from only a few inches away. I really didn't see any value in that. If I had a lift, I could see taking a full swing at all. But not in the driveway on your back.

Local help? LOL, no one really works on cars in my area of the country.
Maybe some immigrant groups do, but I don't know anyone personally.
In fact, it is illegal with certain kinds of real estate, probably because it brings property values down.
That's probably why dealers around here can charge over $1000 for a front brake job, and have a month long waiting list.
There's no one to learn from anymore, and learning from the internet is very challenging and very time consuming.

Also, why would you change your O2 sensor at work? Why didn't you wait until you got home?

Oh, and if I get DW, the XJ goes to the crusher or gets given away as a parts car.

 

[souske]

Maybe its time to move.
or sell the xj and start riding the subway, the have high school dropouts with blue collar death grip to maintain them for you.

Or you could take kastein up on his offer...

 

[dcampbell98XJ]

And its people like you why there are so few Xjs on the street. They dont want to take the time to fix things and replace parts and would rather junk a perfectly good car. You live in NY. Id gladly give you 500 bucks for your heep and replace the 02 in a half hour. A 22mm wrench would work but then again i guess that would mean you would have to actually look for one. If your going to try and do work on vehicle maybe you should read up and research and find out what tools youd need to repair the vehicle. If you live in a neighborhood where you cant work on a car why are you even trying? instead of arguing for 3 days, Bring it to your mechanic and be done with it. I highly doubt that every single poster on this thread has kept their heeps running without some problems but we all work through them and figure them out (with or without help) and managed to complete what they wanted. If you cant get the project done one way go back and figure out another way. There have been lots of useful advice that you have refused to accept and instead argued with everyone. Why did i change mine in a parking lot? Because it was completely flat and not covered in sand and salt like the rest of the town because of snow. You dont need to be a rocket scientist to work on these jeeps just common sense and perseverance to over come a challenge

 

[bimmerjeeper]

If your going to try and do work on vehicle maybe you should read up and research and find out what tools youd need to repair the vehicle. If you live in a neighborhood where you cant work on a car why are you even trying? instead of arguing for 3 days, Bring it to your mechanic and be done with it. I highly doubt that every single poster on this thread has kept their heeps running without some problems but we all work through them and figure them out (with or without help) and managed to complete what they wanted. If you cant get the project done one way go back and figure out another way. There have been lots of useful advice that you have refused to accept and instead argued with everyone. Why did i change mine in a parking lot? Because it was completely flat and not covered in sand and salt like the rest of the town because of snow. You dont need to be a rocket scientist to work on these jeeps just common sense and perseverance to over come a challenge

I did research. Sorry, but the most popular advice was to use an O2 socket, use PB, jack the car, do it while it's at operating temp, and use a cheater bar. I did ALL of them. So, I have no idea what you're even talking about. The only advice I ignored was using a blowtorch 3 inches from my face. Yea, call me a p*ssy. I'm ok with that.

I might try a 22mm wrench. I first will check what sort of clearance I would have with a cheater bar. I still have to decide if I want to use the advice of kicking the wrench, as well.
The only problem with a 22mm wrench is that I'd have to cut off one side of it to fit into my cheater pipe. And that's not within my current capability.
Or, I can buy some sort of huge pipe at a hardware store, but that might get hard to manage if it's a very heavy pipe. I will have to look into this.

You need common sense and perseverance to over come a challenge (and torches, welders, angle grinders, bench vices, and air hammers)

Kastien's offer was just useless internet posturing.
You really think he's going to drive 6 hours roundtrip to change an O2 sensor?
That would cost me $1500 at the suggested hourly rate. No thanks.
Besides, I don't like arrogant people who insult people on internet forums just b/c they can't just look at an engine car and already know how take it apart b/c it's soooo easy.