O2 sensor won't budge.

[Vanimal]

If the mechanic clears 1600 worth of work in an hour, they should be paid for it.

Oh wait,

Who owns who now?

the o2 sensor owned him.

 

[souske]

We are the 1%!

 

[souske]

If we are going to have universal healthcare, why not universal auto care.
whether you have a rig that sees koh, or is a dd. Ferrari or honduh.

Anyone else hear how rediculous that sounds?

 

[Jeepman401]

If the mechanic clears 1600 worth of work in an hour, they should be paid for it.

Oh wait,

Who owns who now?

I want to know who is telling him that book time is that inflated. The book time is based off warranty time, and the manufacturers don't set warranty time so that they are paying out any extras. I can think of exactly 1the job that even comes close to that profit margin, and it was because of a huge shortcut if you were willing to contort your hand into a very tight spot in order to prevent you from having to remove the dashboard. Want to know what happened to that shortcut? Some people at ford got wind of it and now that shortcut is the way to do the job. A job that once booked 8 hours and could be done in 1the now pays .8.

 

[bimmerjeeper]

The times are right from a Jeep dealer quote.

Starter 1.5 hours
Valve Cover Gasket 1.5 hours
New heater hoses 1.5 hours
TrackBar 1 hour
Front Shocks 1 hour
Window Regualtor 1.5 hours

Everyone on this forum will say each of these things take 15 mins.
So, either the forum is full of crap, or the hours are inflated.

 

[souske]

Jeepman, I hear ya. Thats why I got away from wrenching for a living.
if your shop rate is $250/hr then a 1.0 job will bring the shop $250.

I live in SoCal, a fairly overpriced part of the country, and rates are $100 +/- hr

If I had to pay that for everything I have done to my xj, I could not afford it

 

[joe_peters]

1. Flat-rate manuals are a GUIDE. Shops are free to quote jobs higher or lower as they see fit.

2. Factory warranty times are sometimes lower than flat-rate times; factory rates paid to dealerships for labor ARE ALWAYS LESS THAN THE POSTED SERVICE DEPARTMENT RATES, sometimes more than 50 percent LESS.

3. There was a time, mid-seventies through the late eighties, when flat-rate times were easy to beat. That is when the surge in air tools made jobs go faster, and the flat-rate times hadn't been adjusted yet.

4. A good technician will beat flat-rate times MOST of the time, but not always. This comes from having the right tools, having their tools and work area organized, and being a professional at work--no personal calls or BS sessions while on the shop's time. Good service writers and dispatchers make money for the technicians, and the bad ones cost the shop and technicians money.

 

[Jeepman401]

The times are right from a Jeep dealer quote.

Starter 1.5 hours
Valve Cover Gasket 1.5 hours
New heater hoses 1.5 hours
TrackBar 1 hour
Front Shocks 1 hour
Window Regualtor 1.5 hours

Everyone on this forum will say each of these things take 15 mins.
So, either the forum is full of crap, or the hours are inflated.[/QUOTE

Got a photo of that quote? Some of those times are just plain wrong, others not so much.
Now sit back and take in a small lesson on the internet. Forum user A posts that he did a job on his vehicle/house/woodworking project or something like that. Itthe job took him an hour to do, but wanting to prove he has a larger than average e-penis than the average forum uuser he claims to have done it in 1/2 hour. Forum user B did the same job in roughly the same time, but claims to have done it in 25 minutes to impress a group of people he has never met. Forum user c comes along and takes twice as long to do the job as users a and b, but in order to soothe his bruised ego he claims to have done it in 20. Before long the time is down to 15the minutes while the actual time is still an hour.
The moral of it all is take any time claims on the internet as they are, claims. Work on things at your own pace.
However, that does not mean just because you can try, fail, and make a post that will convince everyone new to jeeps that simple tasks are impossible.

 

[bimmerjeeper]

Jeepman, the dealer quotes I listed were personally quoted to me by a Jeep/Chrysler dealer. And yes, I have all the estimates in my folder.

 

[1-tonxj]

The times are right from a Jeep dealer quote.

Starter 1.5 hours
Valve Cover Gasket 1.5 hours
New heater hoses 1.5 hours
TrackBar 1 hour
Front Shocks 1 hour
Window Regualtor 1.5 hours

Everyone on this forum will say each of these things take 15 mins.
So, either the forum is full of crap, or the hours are inflated.[/QUOTE

Got a photo of that quote? Some of those times are just plain wrong, others not so much.
Now sit back and take in a small lesson on the internet. Forum user A posts that he did a job on his vehicle/house/woodworking project or something like that. Itthe job took him an hour to do, but wanting to prove he has a larger than average e-penis than the average forum uuser he claims to have done it in 1/2 hour. Forum user B did the same job in roughly the same time, but claims to have done it in 25 minutes to impress a group of people he has never met. Forum user c comes along and takes twice as long to do the job as users a and b, but in order to soothe his bruised ego he claims to have done it in 20. Before long the time is down to 15the minutes while the actual time is still an hour.
The moral of it all is take any time claims on the internet as they are, claims. Work on things at your own pace.
However, that does not mean just because you can try, fail, and make a post that will convince everyone new to jeeps that simple tasks are impossible.

After reading his posts I'm convinced I need to call AAA to just get a spare tire put on properly .

 

[nick86]

Let me give this forum a huge reality check. You know how the dealer prices are crazy? Did it even occur to you that these prices don't just exist to make you feel smug about your wrenching hobby? Yea, in certain parts of the country, people actually take their car to the dealer. Maybe even in your town. Do you think all these dealerships with insane prices just sit there empty? No. These places actually have customers! Do you know I tried to take one of my cars to a dealer, and they gave me an appointment 3 weeks in the future? Think about that for a second. Not everyone thinks a dealership is a place where they sell $2 screws at the parts counter, along with an imaginary service dept that is make believe. Did you know there are people who actually buy new cars? I know, crazy. There is a whole 'nother world out there. Most people won't take their car to anywhere but the dealer. A select few take their car to some indy grease monkey for half the cost of a dealer. But, most prefer not to. Do you know that when I tell friends I took my car to a mechanic, they look at me like I'm crazy? Many people don't even know people other than the dealership can actually fix their car! Then, you get to the 1% who can actually change their own air filter.

So, where do I get this number? Let's use a single example. A dealer charges $400 for a new starter. What's a starter cost? $75? So, that's $325 to replace a starter. For a n00b, it will take 1-2 hours. Something always goes wrong. But, for a pro mechanic, it will take 12 mins. So, he is billing $325 for 12 mins. of work. Do the math. That's $1600 for an hour of work. Did I say that is what the mechanic takes home? No, I didn't say that. I am talking about what people are paying for. I am not counting overhead. I am counting what people are paying for work. They are paying $325 for 12 mins. of work. They are paying $1600 for 1 hour's work. Is this was soooooooo simple, would people pay $1600 for an hour's worth of work? I'll let you answer that. Shop rates are $125/hr. Starter gets 1.5 book hours. In theory, you could replace 4 starters in an hour. That's 6 book hours. That's $750 billed for that hour of labor. Is that profit? No. But are people paying $750 for an hour worth of work? Yes. Now, tell me all the other stuff that is soooooo easy and people are paying $750 for an hours worth of that skill. I'm waiting.

Your an idiot. you have no idea what it cost to operate a shop, overhead, ha,ha. Who do you thinks pays the heat bill for that shop & lobby. Who pays for the techs 401k & health ins. The tech doesn't get even close for they do for people like you that don't even know how to change your own oil, or just to plain lazy. Oh, by the way, I am one of those ASE techs that have to bail you out when you can't do it. Your welcome.

 

[kastein]

You back up your position that this stuff is sooooo easy.....by saying even a 16 year old can do the OFA o-rings. I called bullshit on your giving half the story. So, I asked you how did he grind his own T60 bit? You avoided the question, so I'm asking again. How did he grind his own T60 bit? Does this 16 year old own an angle grinder and bench vice in his bedroom? There is no chance in hell a 16 year old is doing an OFA o-ring job on an XJ without some major assistance from expert friends or relatives, and their tools. So spare me your "even a 16 year old can do this". Yea, if I knew people with grinders, blow torches, and lifts, I wouldn't be on this forum. I'd just ask them. Just like you're friend did. So, please learn the difference between apples and oranges.

it IS easy if you aren't a total retard. We have been over this.

Let me give this forum a huge reality check.

Move out of NYC, pull your head out, and you won't be the one giving ANYONE a reality check.

The times are right from a Jeep dealer quote.

Starter 1.5 hours
Valve Cover Gasket 1.5 hours
New heater hoses 1.5 hours
TrackBar 1 hour
Front Shocks 1 hour
Window Regualtor 1.5 hours

Everyone on this forum will say each of these things take 15 mins.
So, either the forum is full of crap, or the hours are inflated.

I can do a starter in 15 minutes. It's 4 sockets and ratchets. Hell I probably did my last one in five, because I had already tried both my spares (both dead or only started it a few times before dying) and had everything fresh in my mind.

Valve cover gasket was annoying, but 1 hour at most, I seem to recall it taking around 30 minutes.

Track bar sucked, that's one I'd consider actually bringing to a shop if the frame side is rusted or the axle side bolt is seized. Probably would still do it myself because I've seen some spectacular hackjobs done by small shops that screwed up and had to piece stuff back together. I think it took me around an hour last time, I did use a $250 special tool known as an oxyacetylene torch because I got pissed at it and decided to cut to the chase.

Front shocks that's around the right time if any bolts round, otherwise it is a 30 minute job tops. I can see why you would think it was harder because apparently you can't figure out how to find one end of a bolt from the other, nor identify what kind of shock to use when there's a picture sitting right in front of you.

I haven't done a window regulator, none of mine have broken, but I can swap an entire door from the junkyard in less than an hour including pulling and buying it, so I'd say 1 hour worst case.



But then again I can do a "multi hour" job such as replacing the lights in my HVAC cluster in under 10 minutes on the first try, probably under 5 on the second, because I am smarter than you, mister five percenter. What do you do for work, anyways? I'm not sure how anyone so unversed in critical thinking and unable to learn or do anything themselves can make anywhere near what I used to. Hell, Jeepman401 can tell you, a good number of people on here think I'm a total idiot and I somehow 1. made more money than you do right now and 2. still figure out how to fix my jeep, even if that does mean doing balljoints in the woods with hand tools.


Don't tell me I am full of crap on those time estimates, either. I seem to recall proving you wrong pretty handily last time, and I'm not wasting my time making more videos of you being wrong this time.

 

[nick86]

1. Flat-rate manuals are a GUIDE. Shops are free to quote jobs higher or lower as they see fit.

2. Factory warranty times are sometimes lower than flat-rate times; factory rates paid to dealerships for labor ARE ALWAYS LESS THAN THE POSTED SERVICE DEPARTMENT RATES, sometimes more than 50 percent LESS.

3. There was a time, mid-seventies through the late eighties, when flat-rate times were easy to beat. That is when the surge in air tools made jobs go faster, and the flat-rate times hadn't been adjusted yet.

4. A good technician will beat flat-rate times MOST of the time, but not always. This comes from having the right tools, having their tools and work area organized, and being a professional at work--no personal calls or BS sessions while on the shop's time. Good service writers and dispatchers make money for the technicians, and the bad ones cost the shop and technicians money.

Joe, flat rate goes out the window in a salt belt state if your working under the car or truck. Than it's strickley shop rate X the amount to repair it.

 

[1-tonxj]

 

[Demonoid369]

New heater hoses 1.5 hours.

I'm still trying to figure out how this takes that long?? If I recall you just take two clamps off and pull the hose, put in new hose, re tighten clamps........ Or am I missing something lol that should be a total if at most realistic time like 15 min.
I think this dealership realizes how dumb you are and are conning you money lol

 

[kastein]

I'm still trying to figure out how this takes that long?? If I recall you just take two clamps off and pull the hose, put in new hose, re tighten clamps........ Or am I missing something lol that should be a total if at most realistic time like 15 min.
I think this dealership realizes how dumb you are and are conning you money lol

you forgot to drain the coolant, though that's a problem that fixes itself.


You know what?

bimmerjeeper, what did you say your mechanic charges you? $250 an hour?

Got a garage? I only work on my own jeep in the snow. It sure looks like you have a garage to me.

For $200/hr I will do damn near any repair on that jeep you have and teach you to do it while working on it. Not including engine, transmission, or differential rebuild (as in actual work inside them, swapping other parts on/off is no problem) as I don't do that for anyone. Not including A/C work because I don't have the tools yet. Not including heater core replacement, because that is a very annoying job on a late model and I don't want to do it on my own jeep, nevermind someone else's.

2 hours up front deposit, after that it's hourly.

I am tired of listening to you say how hard this stuff is. I've taught people to do a lot of this for free, but they weren't two hours away and complaining about it.

If you don't take that, stop complaining. Please.

 

[nick86]

I'm still trying to figure out how this takes that long?? If I recall you just take two clamps off and pull the hose, put in new hose, re tighten clamps........ Or am I missing something lol that should be a total if at most realistic time like 15 min.
I think this dealership realizes how dumb you are and are conning you money lol

All shops know how dumb their customers are. Case in point, I have no heat. Cause you are low on antifreeze. Who does your oil changes? My husband. Well, there ya go. Next time tell him to check your fluid levels.

 

[joe_peters]

Joe, flat rate goes out the window in a salt belt state if your working under the car or truck. Than it's strickley shop rate X the amount to repair it.

Right--as I said, flat-rate manuals are a GUIDE.

There are some jobs I will always increase the estimate enough to run them down the road.

 

[joe_peters]

I'm still trying to figure out how this takes that long?? If I recall you just take two clamps off and pull the hose, put in new hose, re tighten clamps........ Or am I missing something lol that should be a total if at most realistic time like 15 min.
I think this dealership realizes how dumb you are and are conning you money lol

The technicians at that shop are union.

 

[nick86]

All shops know how dumb their customers are. Case in point, I have no heat. Cause you are low on antifreeze. Who does your oil changes? My husband. Well, there ya go. Next time tell him to check your fluid levels.

Heres another one car towed in $50, mark it up to $75. ! hour checking out, send kid down & get 5 gal of gas. start car, call customer Tell them they $200 cause they ran out of gas. Not cause your an idiot, cause you wasted an hour of my time I will never get back cause your an idiot.