JCR anti-roll mod idea

[monkeyevil]

So you tilt a flat circle that is parallel to the ground on any degree plane (besides 0, 90, or 180) with the front being higher than the rear.

Lets say the highest point of the arc is the 0 deg point on the circle. This makes the lowest point of the imaginary circle at 180 deg.

Therefore every additional degree of angle between 0 and 180 is lower than the last (vertically)

Since both knuckles don't turn the same amount of angle, the inner knuckle's TRE in the turn (which has to turn more for proper ackerman) is lower (vertically) than the outer knuckle TRE.

 

[High2by]

I also have the JCR OTK system on mine. It hasn't been on the trail yet since I put it on, but I am not 100% sure about it. I am going out this weekend on a ride. I will post up and let you know if I encounter any problems with it. I hope it works as well as I think it will. Otherwise, I am gonna be totally disappointed in it!!!!!

 

[goodburbon]

So you tilt a flat circle that is parallel to the ground on any degree plane (besides 0, 90, or 180) with the front being higher than the rear.

Lets say the highest point of the arc is the 0 deg point on the circle. This makes the lowest point of the imaginary circle at 180 deg.

Therefore every additional degree of angle between 0 and 180 is lower than the last (vertically)

Since both knuckles don't turn the same amount of angle, the inner knuckle's TRE in the turn (which has to turn more for proper ackerman) is lower (vertically) than the outer knuckle TRE.

It is still on the same plane, therefore only 2 dimensional travel is necessary. What changes at 0, 90 and 180 degrees of caster? NOT A DAMN THING.

 

[goodburbon]

What you're describing would only exist if every single axle was set up to have identical tie rod lengths, identical caster/camber numbers, etc. The tolerances would be insane and totally impractical for any sort of mass production. Using a simple ball & socket joint is a much easier solution (and is why they've been used on every production auto). Setting toe-in to +/- 0.125" or getting the caster within +/- 1* on either side might not sound like a big difference, but it's huge when you're talking about machine components. Even the smallest amount of binding - from the angles not being perfect, from the tie rod deflecting slightly, from the alignment not being right - would get you into a situation of repetitive bending, leading to a fatigue failure. Not fun.

Ok so what does tie rod length have to do with it?

 

[jrowell]

I have the JCR and with a fresh spacer mine has no roll. After a trip or 2 on the trails it gets pretty sloppy. I go through 3 or 4 spacers a year. It can definitely get dangerous. I will not let my wife drive it on the road if the spacer has seen the trail.

I've even had to change the spacer on the trail once. I have not been able to acquire the J10 spacers. Hoping somebody comes up with an alternate spacer idea...

Jeremy

 

[swbooking]

I have the JCR and with a fresh spacer mine has no roll. After a trip or 2 on the trails it gets pretty sloppy. I go through 3 or 4 spacers a year. It can definitely get dangerous. I will not let my wife drive it on the road if the spacer has seen the trail.

I've even had to change the spacer on the trail once. I have not been able to acquire the J10 spacers. Hoping somebody comes up with an alternate spacer idea...

Jeremy

Are you serious?

I have had my kit for over 6 months. I drive at least 1000 miles a month with my XJ and the steering has seen about 4 day runs since ive had it.

I have yet to replace the spacer and It still steers just fine on roads.

As Ive said before, its a Jeep. Its not made to have the steering tolerances of a sports car...

 

[emr1101]

As for you, you asked a question I gave you an answer. Someone else questioned my reasoning and I wanted to make sure he had thoroughly thought about his answer before jumping down his throat with what I thought was right. I find it much more civil to encourage thought than to call someone a dumbass or a cocky so and so who thinks he knows it all. I learned something about Ackerman steering today, I had never heard of it before, only seen it in action. The fact remains that without the addition of caster the tie rod ends only need to rotate in one plane.

I fixed your post for you too.

We know you think you're the s%!^ because you think you know a lot, but no one cares. Stop being a cocky (noun missing) and answer his questions. Just don't post stuff like "think some more". [/QUOTE]

Dude, not to be disrespectful of someone I don't know, but I know how to type. It's an internet forum, most don't care if someone mis-types a few times. Don't hide behind my spelling errors, get the chip off your shoulder.
​

 

[emr1101]

where can J10 spacers be had? Is this referring to a J10 pickup?

 

[XJLI]

Are you serious?

I have had my kit for over 6 months. I drive at least 1000 miles a month with my XJ and the steering has seen about 4 day runs since ive had it.

I have yet to replace the spacer and It still steers just fine on roads.

As Ive said before, its a Jeep. Its not made to have the steering tolerances of a sports car...

x2

ive been running my steering for over a year, at least 10 weekend wheeling runs, and a good 10k miles. no problems to report cept my tie rod jam nut loosened up last week, but some loctite fixed that.

 

[emr1101]

well this is not an uncommon problem, guess you are lucky haha. do you have pictures of your TREs?

 

[jeeperjohn]

I would like to see a tie rod with rod ends that are elastomeric like on a helicopter pitch control rod. They allow a few degrees of rotation and 15* or so of "roll" while always returning to center.

 

[jrowell]

Are you serious?

I have had my kit for over 6 months. I drive at least 1000 miles a month with my XJ and the steering has seen about 4 day runs since ive had it.

I have yet to replace the spacer and It still steers just fine on roads.

As Ive said before, its a Jeep. Its not made to have the steering tolerances of a sports car...

While I'm happy for your good luck... I am serious.
I don't think you understand just how unsafe it can get. If you let your spacer get to "squished" the jeep will hardly stay in one lane. I have had that whole bushing disintegrate before. It's not a matter of me wanting a my heep to ride like a caddy! I just want it to stay in one lane!

 

[jeeperjohn]

The motion of the knuckle attachment point from center to the inside stop is different than the movement from center to outside stop. Therefore there will be some change in the relation of one side to the other during turning because one side moves towards center and one side moves outward. For that reason you need misalignment to prevent binding. It could be that the change in angle is negligible and would not significantly cause wear to the joints but is in fact there.

 

[emr1101]

Are you serious?

I have had my kit for over 6 months. I drive at least 1000 miles a month with my XJ and the steering has seen about 4 day runs since ive had it.

I have yet to replace the spacer and It still steers just fine on roads.

As Ive said before, its a Jeep. Its not made to have the steering tolerances of a sports car...

While I'm happy for your good luck... I am serious.
I don't think you understand just how unsafe it can get. If you let your spacer get to "squished" the jeep will hardly stay in one lane. I have had that whole bushing disintegrate before. It's not a matter of me wanting a my heep to ride like a caddy! I just want it to stay in one lane!

Well said, i need a spacer that is going to work. what is the J10 spacer?

 

[jrowell]

It is the spacer for the J10 Truck. It's really hard to get ahold of, and some believe it to be a mythological creature.

 

[xcm]

if you read more then you post, you'd have read the thread where tnt discussed the j10 spacer, and its shortcomings(availability)

emr: you asked a retarded question, with retarded mspaint skills to match, and you disrespect the people foolish enough to reply w/ actual tech?
you should just take off the t+t kit, and design your own, sinse you refuse to listen and think you know everything.
probably installation error.

 

[C85D4x4]

emr1101..........Please post a pic of your TRE with your so called problem!!!!!!

then

Go to "www.mcmaster.com"
Find a 3/8"(0.375) sheet of High-Density Polyethylene (HDPE) and cut your own spacer out.
Part Number: 8619K431



I have the JCR OTK steering kit. I have been running it all summer on many wheeling trips with out a problem. I never used JCRs [FONT=Arial,Helvetica][SIZE=-1]polyurethane TRE spacer b/c I made my own out of a sheet of HDPE I had laying around.

[/SIZE][/FONT]

 

[wolfpackjeeper]

Go to "www.mcmaster.com"
Find a 3/8"(0.375) sheet of High-Density Polyethylene (HDPE) and cut your own spacer out.
Part Number: 8619K431

my dad needed this in a hurry for guide bushings on his CNC router/mill. Se he went out and got some nice cutting boards for like $10 at walmart. Same stuff, works great. Just in case you wanted to save some money, just make sure you get the good quality ones instead of the cheep ones

 

[C85D4x4]

my dad needed this in a hurry for guide bushings on his CNC router/mill. Se he went out and got some nice cutting boards for like $10 at walmart. Same stuff, works great. Just in case you wanted to save some money, just make sure you get the good quality ones instead of the cheep ones

Yes cutting board is usually the same material (who knows what "crap" the Chinese are using in "walmart crap"), but make sure it is the correct thickness. The sheet of HDPE on mcmaster is $10.38 plus shipping.

 

[wolfpackjeeper]

yea, he just needed it NOW. cause he can be a bit impatient. I think he bought the martha stewart edition stuff. And he went in with a micrometer which made for some entertaining looks.


incredibly accurate sig btw...