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Iron Rock Long Arm Upgrade

MaxxXJ said:
heres what i think about the whole 10MM bolt breaking... stop arguing about it breaking and just carry a few spares! when it breaks, stop ASAP and pull out your ratchet strap, pull it back into place and replace the broken bolt with a new one =) problem solved!
Click to expand...
Easier said than done. What do you think is going to happen if that one and only bolt breaks? The axle will rotate and the force of that could take out your steering, damage your shocks, and possibly the front driveshaft as well.

I agree that the single 10mm bolt is under less stress than other setups but it IS still ONE bolt, and one that you will have to hope doesn't break.

Maybe nobody has broken one with the IRO kit, I don't know... so if you trust it run it.
 
EricsXJ said:
Easier said than done. What do you think is going to happen if that one and only bolt breaks? The axle will rotate and the force of that could take out your steering, damage your shocks, and possibly the front driveshaft as well.

I agree that the single 10mm bolt is under less stress than other setups but it IS still ONE bolt, and one that you will have to hope doesn't break.

Maybe nobody has broken one with the IRO kit, I don't know... so if you trust it run it.
Click to expand...

yanno i was getting ready to post about how a grade 5 bolt is better than a grade 8 as far as sheer strength goes, but i looked it up before i looked wetodded and found this page

http://www.rockcrawler.com/techreports/fasteners/index.asp

but i understand what your saying as far as 1 bolt and all that it could damage should it fail. it will just make me keep a better eye on that bolt once i buy the IRO kit. i'll prolly change it every year or so. just to be on the safe side.
 
grade 8
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Tension Capability (lb)[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]12360[/FONT]​



[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Shear Capability (lb)[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]10050[/FONT]​



thats for a .375 bolt thats appox 9.5mm's

next step up would be approx 11.11mm's and the
tension cap = 16673
shear cap = 13680
so a 10mm bolt would be between the 2 as far as strength goes.

so in order to BREAK a 10mm bolt you'd have to put over 10Klb's of pressure to that bolt, i just dont see how likely that is w/o being winched or something.
(copied)
Fatigue usually doesn’t play a big part in grade 8 or grade 5 fasteners since most steels are good for 2 million to 10 million cycles. Far more than you will ever winch or pull on. Here is a quick point about fastener fatigue. Almost all fastener fatigue failures are the result of improper (almost always too low) torque. Too low a torque will cause the fastener to pick up more load more often and eventually cycle it to failure

so could it be possible that the bolts that broke on the other rigs had an improper torqued bolt ?
 
Shock loads are generally what kills stuff - they can reach many times the average force applied. For instance a wheel spinning and then suddenly catching will snap a U-joint or axle shaft that was perfectly fine with the torque applied by the spinning wheel, and also by the torque applied by the moving vehicle and non-slipping wheel before you got stuck.

Heck, if we didn't shock-load things, almost anyone on here could run whatever tires they wanted on a 35 with impunity. Not shock loading things is generally called mall-crawling though.
 
MaxxXJ said:
grade 8
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Tension Capability (lb)[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]12360[/FONT]​



[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Shear Capability (lb)[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]10050[/FONT]​



thats for a .375 bolt thats appox 9.5mm's

next step up would be approx 11.11mm's and the
tension cap = 16673
shear cap = 13680
so a 10mm bolt would be between the 2 as far as strength goes.

so in order to BREAK a 10mm bolt you'd have to put over 10Klb's of pressure to that bolt, i just dont see how likely that is w/o being winched or something.
(copied)
Fatigue usually doesn’t play a big part in grade 8 or grade 5 fasteners since most steels are good for 2 million to 10 million cycles. Far more than you will ever winch or pull on. Here is a quick point about fastener fatigue. Almost all fastener fatigue failures are the result of improper (almost always too low) torque. Too low a torque will cause the fastener to pick up more load more often and eventually cycle it to failure

so could it be possible that the bolts that broke on the other rigs had an improper torqued bolt ?
Click to expand...
Over torqueing a bolt greatly reduces the sheer and tension capailities. That torque wrench is your friend.
 
jeeperjohn said:
Over torqueing a bolt greatly reduces the sheer and tension capailities. That torque wrench is your friend.
Click to expand...


ahh yes the torque wrench is your friend. i torque all my bolts on my jeep. it also helps me find out which bolt is loosening up too, i get under my jeep about once a month weather i've wheeled it or not and check the torque of all my suspension bolts, if one's loose i know which one i should pay more attention to and or locktite it. (should prolly locktite them all anyways).

john tell me this, if you bought a new track bar and it came with a grade 5 bolt or 8.8 and it's suppose to be torqued to 60 ft lbs, and you buy a grade 8 or 10.9 to replace it for more strength, do you still torque it to 60 ft lbs or how much more torque should be applied to it? To my understanding the same size bolt in different grades require a different torque load to be properly torqued so in that scenario what would you do?
 
MaxxXJ said:
ahh yes the torque wrench is your friend. i torque all my bolts on my jeep. it also helps me find out which bolt is loosening up too, i get under my jeep about once a month weather i've wheeled it or not and check the torque of all my suspension bolts, if one's loose i know which one i should pay more attention to and or locktite it. (should prolly locktite them all anyways).

john tell me this, if you bought a new track bar and it came with a grade 5 bolt or 8.8 and it's suppose to be torqued to 60 ft lbs, and you buy a grade 8 or 10.9 to replace it for more strength, do you still torque it to 60 ft lbs or how much more torque should be applied to it? To my understanding the same size bolt in different grades require a different torque load to be properly torqued so in that scenario what would you do?
Click to expand...
Do a google search for "bolt torques" You will find a large number of charts for determining torque. Without doing any research, I would go about 10-20 foot pounds more for the next higher grade of bolt. For bolts that have a nut, the torque is determined by the nut size and type because you are supposed to hold the bolt still and torque the nut.
 
gotcha. this was a legitimate question, i am getting the IRO HD double shear track bar in the mail soon and if it came with lower grade bolts i was planning on upgrading to something better just for added security.
 
MaxxXJ said:
gotcha. this was a legitimate question, i am getting the IRO HD double shear track bar in the mail soon and if it came with lower grade bolts i was planning on upgrading to something better just for added security.
Click to expand...
I've seen far too many people over tighten bolts thinking that more is better and end up bashing a manufacturer because the bolt failed. Many things are stronger at the proper torque than gorilla torque.
 
MaxxXJ said:
gotcha. this was a legitimate question, i am getting the IRO HD double shear track bar in the mail soon and if it came with lower grade bolts i was planning on upgrading to something better just for added security.
Click to expand...
I run that trac bar and you will have no problems with the supplied bolts,they are plenty strong..
 
ok so kit is on and it seems to ride great, i just need to get some disconnects for the sway bar... Is there any DIY kits or ideas for sway bar disconnects?

The ride is amazing compared to the rustys kit i had on it. I cant wait to get a working front dif installed.
 
jeeperjohn said:
Only one bolt connecting the single top link to the differential. I don't see a 10mm high strength bolt failing under normal use (including hard wheeling).
Click to expand...

been there, trackbar though, about 7 times

MaxxXJ said:
heres what i think about the whole 10MM bolt breaking... stop arguing about it breaking and just carry a few spares! when it breaks, stop ASAP and pull out your ratchet strap, pull it back into place and replace the broken bolt with a new one =) problem solved!
Click to expand...

ever lose your upper control arms? you usually dont hear a pop and your tires instantly stop spinning and go "oh that was my pesky upper control arm bolt"

EricsXJ said:
Easier said than done. What do you think is going to happen if that one and only bolt breaks? The axle will rotate and the force of that could take out your steering, damage your shocks, and possibly the front driveshaft as well.
Click to expand...

it bent both my shocks, ruined my front driveshaft, and bent my steering.

and this was simply bending stock uppers, not snapping a bolt, which would likely cause more harm
 
I realized these issues^ and went RC.

Even though I love my Other Iron Rock parts, I couldnt be settled with that bolt.
 
Ok, I have been running Iron Rock 6 1/2 long arm kit on my 98 XJ for a couple of years now. Mostly used as a daily driver to get me to my part time job since I retired at 55. I belong to a local Jeep Club and we do go wheeling usually about once a month. The IRO kit has been pretty good, but so far 2 problems 1- the track bar drop bracket keeps loosening a bit every couple months and yes I torqued it down and used loctite and 2 - I just noticed the castor adjustment bracket has spread open, the long curved slot that allows the castor to be set has just started to open up. So the fix , I need the truck for work tomorrow and Sunday is a pool and relax day then I will stitch weld the drop bracket to the frame after reapplying loctite and tightening. Then the castor adjustment bracket will be removed, bent back to it,s proper shape and also welded up so it should never spread open again. My advice to anyone running the critical path kit with that bracket would be to take a good look at it just to be sure it hasn,t deformed at all. It won,t be for a couple of days but when I remove it I will post a before and after picture.
 
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