Illigal immigration.

[Ironmen77]

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/world/3868669.html


That's rich.

 

[WVXJ]

Yeah, maybe i'm just ignorant.....................

 

[Matt S.]

Yeah, maybe i'm just ignorant.....................

You must understand...


oh forget it

 

[WVXJ]

Maybe i could be president!

 

[BRIANHO13]

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/world/3868669.html


That's rich.

Guess they should just shoot them then.

 

[FarmerMatt]

Yeah, maybe i'm just ignorant.....................

Prove your point. Show me where any farm in the US has “slave labor”, Republican or Democrat alike. Support your allegations. Until such time you are ignorant.

 

[WVXJ]

one could argue that minimum wage itself is a slave wage, but lets not split hairs. But, correct me if i'm wrong, illegal aliens are not paid a minimum wage, if they are paid at all (I've heard after the work is done sometimes they're threatened with deportation or the "authorities" by less than honest foreman who pick them up on street corners to work, this work includes all kinds of work, from construction to farming) and isn't that why the workers keep coming here, in hopes of work. Isn't that why they are referred to as "migrant workers". The little tidbit about republitards being the ones to hire them, well, that was just playing into the "bleeding heart" liberal stereotype that was given in the beginning of this thread...................but i always rib the repubs back, it's just what i do................don't get upset..............

 

[WVXJ]

i'm sure democratic farmers hire them too....................

 

[mdl]

I really just don't see the point of sending away or jailing millions of people. Yes, they have wronged, however many,some, (not all) have established themselves here. Shipping them off is the wrong answer, jailing them all is the wrong answer. I support the plan set forth: 5 years green card, and 10 years citizenship. Yes you do need to wait behind the ones who are trying to get here legally but I think more harm than good could be done if we just send them all away.


Now when I'm speaking, I am speaking generally. Not aimed at any one nationality of illigal. Many people think illigal, they think Mexico. Yes mexico does send them the daily care package of nationals but everyone has to keep in mind there are other people from other countrys entering illigally as well.


Like I said before, I'm usually as right wing as possible. Conservative republican who agrees with what I believe is right.

 

[FarmerMatt]

one could argue that minimum wage itself is a slave wage, but lets not split hairs. But, correct me if i'm wrong, illegal aliens are not paid a minimum wage, if they are paid at all (I've heard after the work is done sometimes they're threatened with deportation or the "authorities" by less than honest foreman who pick them up on street corners to work, this work includes all kinds of work, from construction to farming) and isn't that why the workers keep coming here, in hopes of work. Isn't that why they are referred to as "migrant workers". The little tidbit about republitards being the ones to hire them, well, that was just playing into the "bleeding heart" liberal stereotype that was given in the beginning of this thread...................but i always rib the repubs back, it's just what i do................don't get upset..............

I have a pet peeve with people swallowing the hook line & sinker when it comes to hot button issues like these. You're spewing out the same generalized BS that helps to get people rallied up, but has little to no content. As my screen name implies, I am a farmer with 50 full time employees & close to 300 during harvest. All of which have documentation & we pay payroll taxes for. Speaking for our own operation I can see no way for us to operate under the radar & pay employees sub minimum wage or not at all. Several years ago a disgruntled employee happened to make one phone call implying that we had illegal immigrants working for us. Our records were scoured & scrutinized. If one call can bring down the wrath than I see no way that a person being treated sub par would not treat that employer likewise. Operations that do operate like you imply are very few. The vast majority of migrants work under falsified documents & work for established company's making minimum wage or greater & paying their taxes. It's funny, if the gov. truly wanted to go after illegal immigrants than all they would have to do is monitor the payroll taxes & what SS #'s their going to, but than they may lose tax income & they can’t have that...
:shocked:

 

[IMORTL]

one could argue that minimum wage itself is a slave wage, but lets not split hairs. But, correct me if i'm wrong, illegal aliens are not paid a minimum wage, if they are paid at all (I've heard after the work is done sometimes they're threatened with deportation or the "authorities" by less than honest foreman who pick them up on street corners to work, this work includes all kinds of work, from construction to farming) and isn't that why the workers keep coming here, in hopes of work. Isn't that why they are referred to as "migrant workers". The little tidbit about republitards being the ones to hire them, well, that was just playing into the "bleeding heart" liberal stereotype that was given in the beginning of this thread...................but i always rib the repubs back, it's just what i do................don't get upset..............

One could argue that Minimum wage is slavery, but you would be a complete moron if you did. A person should only be paid as much as someone is willing to work for AND someone is willing to pay him or her. If a person accepts a job that pays .50 an hour, who’s fault is that? If no one is willing to work for .50 and hour, the employer will have to pay more to get the job done. I doubt slaves got to negotiate their wages.

What has happened to self-accountability? "Waaa I only make Minimum wage (or less)." You get what you deserve. How about getting an education and improving your worth to society. But Wait, These people didn't have that in their country… Is that our fault? Maybe if their fore-fathers had a revolution, their country wouldn’t suck so bad. Maybe if they spent as much energy changing things back home they could make a decent living there. There are a crap load of people in Mexico City - Mexico City — Population: 8,605,239 hab. (2000) (D.F.) Not all Mexicans are migrant workers. Just the most uneducated and poor of them. I don’t think that’s the level of immigrants we want as a burden on our system. And we do have to pay for it.

Please keep your trolling to a minimum.

 

[WVXJ]

economic slavery is real. like it or not. my argument above about taking advantage of illegals was even substantiated by farmermatt, he just said it happened less often than people think. I'm all for learning and never said mine was the only opinion and thought i had a right to post it. Just trying to make interesting conversation, but you guys seem to want to boil everything down to some militant take over or stand off situation. I guess i'm a troll because.........i'm not a member, or......??? Anyway, your probably right, you guys are so well informed, full of level headed solutions, and respond so well to opinions differing from your own...................

 

[5-90]

Maybe we've become so heavily polarised because we've seen the problem for a number of years, but no-thing has really been done about it. At least, no-thing meaningful.

Economic slavery is quite real - it's simply come about under another moniker - I belive it's called "working poor" now, rather like a "functional alcoholic." The working poor make just enough to sustain themselves, and never quite get ahead. Nothing like working just to constantly tread water, y'ask me.

Granted, the idea of minimum wage has largely become a political stalking horse over the last few years - every time it goes up, the only people who come out ahead are the ones that collect the taxes. Raising the minimum wage just elevates the cost of production, and effectvely devalues the dollar - but that's not germane to this discussion.

I'm sure there are those who take advantage of illegals, mainly because no-thing happens to them, either. If we cut off the flow of illegals, people wouldn't be able to take advantage of them. If we penalise them rather severely for doing so, then perhaps it would become economically unsound - either work on the supply problem, or work on the demand problem. As long as there continues to be a demand, there will be a supply.

Illegal immigration is merely one facet of a greater economic problem.

I suppose just about anyone could pose a solution - but that's because no-one's started anything that has a hope in Hell of working - and the amnesties are getting old. Frankly, if we're going to keep issuing amnesties for what are, in essence, felonies; then I'd like to see issuance of "Get out of jail, free" cards as I'd mentioned before - equity is important.

So, solving the illegal problem may not be a panacea - Hell, it's just one symptom of a greater illness. How do you propose we save the patient? I'd like to hear your thoughts on the matter...

5-90

 

[IMORTL]

economic slavery is real. like it or not. my argument above about taking advantage of illegals was even substantiated by farmermatt, he just said it happened less often than people think. I'm all for learning and never said mine was the only opinion and thought i had a right to post it. Just trying to make interesting conversation, but you guys seem to want to boil everything down to some militant take over or stand off situation. I guess i'm a troll because.........i'm not a member, or......??? Anyway, your probably right, you guys are so well informed, full of level headed solutions, and respond so well to opinions differing from your own...................

my comment about being a troll was related to your slave and republitard comment... not because you are not a member... you may be right about the economic slavery... in fact, I may be one myself... I work hard - well I put in my 40 to 50 hours per week... I get to use my brain for labor so I don’t get all sweaty at the end of the day, but I put my time in... And I am forced - under threat of Jail to pay taxes... In fact I paid so much during the year that we got back $5000 from federal taxes.... and you know what... as much as I paid, I still owed Cali $400... Same set up on tax withholdings as the feds... but not enough to offset the social services Cali pays for... So am I a Slave?

No, I have the freedom to pack my bags and get the hell out if I don’t like it... If someone wants to work for .50 an hour that's on their retarded ass... not mine...

Troll -
In Internet terminology, a troll is someone who comes into an established community such as an online discussion forum, and posts inflammatory, rude or offensive messages designed to intentionally annoy and antagonize the existing members or disrupt the flow of discussion as their only purpose.

and no the opposite opinion is not trolling... but saying the illegals are slaves is....No one is forcing them... and I'm not saying it is not profitable for the people hiring them. But if there were no one willing to work for .50 and hour then they would have to pay more now wouldn’t they… that’s how it works… but if there is a willing worker, then why should they pay more?

 

[WB9YZU]

I vote we take away 5-90's hyphen key as it is missued with extreme prejuduce

Seriously though, if you guys spent even 1/16th of the time telling your elected Reps how you feel instead of posting it here there would be some movement.

The Senate just sent another mixed message to the Mexican people today approving the building of a bigger, longer, deeper and uncut fence, and proposing to make Illegals who have been here more than 2 years eligable for citizenship. One Rep, from WI no less, called what it is, and stated that amnesty was BS. It appears at least one of our Reps is listening to his voting constituants instead of the foreiners protesting our ability to send them back home.

 

[WB9YZU]

It's funny, if the gov. truly wanted to go after illegal immigrants than all they would have to do is monitor the payroll taxes & what SS #'s their going to, but than they may lose tax income & they can’t have that...
:shocked:

It's funny you bring that up.
I read in a search about ID theft, that the IRS is able to discriminate between your valid tax payments, and duplicate tax payments from other sources so they only credit you the amount you really earn for SS purposes.
It went on to say that Credit agencys also are able to get that information and that both are prohibited from sharing with you the fact someone else is using your ID.

 

[5-90]

Um, I do. For some reason, tho, I end up getting letters back that are from somewhat to entirely unrelated to the questions I'd asked. Perhaps I'm missing something, but I just don't have faith in these people anymore.

People in Washington, D.C. seem to have lost touch with what's going on out here. Must be that rarefied air...

Oh - and leave my "hypen" alone - I tend to ramble a bit here, and it's not formal writing that requires proofing, or on which I get marks. Go away!:loveu:

5-90

 

[WVXJ]

then by your definition, i'm not trolling. everyone here posts inflammatory jokes, lib/dem phrases, etc., i was just giving a few of mine, if you'll notice the first page, it's full of lib/dem this and that.............but i don't whine about it, i just give it back.
Instead of attacking poor folks trying to make their lives better, why not attack the rich folks who take advantage of your country and tax system. Do you realize what kind of tax money this country is cheated by corporations. Everyone attacks welfare recipients, but only the poor ones, not the corporate ones. The point is, if the rich would pay taxes,(and it was spent responsibly) we'd all have free healthcare, illegals too. Everyone talks about how this country is the best this and that, but the fact is, we take advantage of other people and countries around the world while also being bested.(we may still be best in healthcare, but only if you can afford it). Instead of trying to help the people in those countries, we only wish to exploit. But, compassion is not intrinsic to capitalism, and that may be the problem. There is a growing gap between rich and poor in this country, and i know yuppies of both colors(but most seem to be red), and neither group of yuppies seems to be able to concede to their own greed.
Therefore, i think, social programs are good, illegals bettering themselves and their countrymen is good, and i don't care if richy rich pays a little more in taxes, considering the impossible task most of us have of living on despicable wages whilst the rich get richer.

 

[kubtastic]

...They don't get paid as much as a border patrol agent either.

It is gems like these that help to 'summarize' a good post. I suppose WV wants to point out that the guard are being unfairly treated as well - or stretched too thin - or a good idea because they cost less than full time border agents - or border agents are paid too much - ... where were you going with this one?

forget it. I see you came to a point now.

 

[WVXJ]

Thanks slonopotam, i guess.............