AW4 Transmission snake oil additives

[Ecomike]

Ehall,

Back to your earlier post of using Dexon VI (which is #6, the newest synthetic stuff), and thinking it is too thin and might be causing the cold slipage on yours. Here is my thinking, doesn't the T fluid get thinner as it heats up, so why would it stop slipping as the T fluid heated up if it was a viscosity issue? By the way, what year is yours?

I am thinking it is a gummy varnish, sticking valve issue, which if that is true, then a solvent additive and later, hot tranny flush (Drain it hot) should be the solution. How many miles on yours? Did your cold tranny problem start before the Dexron 6 (VI)

 

[Sponge Bob]

my slipping issue's were caused by the trans filter being clogged by clutch material.

 

[Ecomike]

my slipping issue's were caused by the trans filter being clogged by clutch material.

So did changing the filter fix the problem?

 

[w_howey]

N8s93XJ:
I went to the local parts store and they said to use ATF+4. So I drained the pan and put about 4 quarts in. Then I realized it was an AW4 (the local parts store has heard my complaint, ate the humble pie, and now give me extra attention... and make suggestions by committee -- eh, still a bit scary).

Does this mean that ATF+4 is wrong to use in a AW4?

Yes... ATF+4 is not for AW-4's... no matter what the chrysler dealer tells you. Aisin Warner was the manufacturer of the AW-4.. the tranny was built for Dex II and should be run on Dex II/III spec'ed fluids.

 

[N8s93XJ]

well... put a little seafoam in it, should have 20 miles on it by the weekend... maybe a bit more than that. I like the B-12 idea, too -- thanks GSeq. If the seafoam doesn't work, I'll give it a shot. I think I've convinced myself to stick with the Merc V... too keep track of what most likely worked (keeping optimism) ...will post results.

An aside: my dipstick tube is stuck to the pan... was told I may need to cut it off to drop the pan far enough to replace the tranny filter. If you were in this situation, what's the quickest route? (have a limited time with the tools and lift... and really hoping for a great penetrating 'something' in a can) Also, if I remember right, Alldata said the tranny pan needs 13 ft/lbs of torque... seems like a lot. Thoughts?

 

[GSequoia]

Another thing I did not add.

I run Dex III conventional only. The AW4 does not like synthetic fluids.

 

[cal]

An aside: my dipstick tube is stuck to the pan... was told I may need to cut it off to drop the pan far enough to replace the tranny filter. If you were in this situation, what's the quickest route? (have a limited time with the tools and lift... and really hoping for a great penetrating 'something' in a can) Also, if I remember right, Alldata said the tranny pan needs 13 ft/lbs of torque... seems like a lot. Thoughts?

The dip stick tube is held to the firewall by 1 bolt. Remove it, and drop the entire tube with the pan.. it binds up (theres stuff in the way) eventually, but you get enough room to complete the job and clean up the gasket surfaces.

 

[techno1154]

Another thing I did not add.

I run Dex III conventional only. The AW4 does not like synthetic fluids.

260,050 miles. Amsoil every where oils is needed since 140,000 miles. 22 MPG on the high way, 17 MPG city driving. AW4 do not like synthetic :dunno: . May DC/Asin Warner made my AW4 different.

 

[N8s93XJ]

Hey guys -- really appreciate the help, but... the original post was about additives to tranny fluid, not necessarily the fluid itself, that might resolve:

From Ecomike:
OK, this is a very specifc, what snake oil additive did you try and how did it perform question with two limitations. One, your story must be about it's use in an AW4, good, bad, or no difference is OK.
I don't care what it did in other transmissions!!!:twak:

Second, Did you have a slipping in forward drive first gear only when cold problem and did it help solve the problem or make it worse? I know I am not the only one that has an Aw4 that needs to warm up a bit (like 15 seconds to a few minutes, the colder it is, the longer it takes, and at 60 F it works perfectly and locks into gear in under 1 second) only when it is cold, like below 40 or 50 F, does it need to warm up first. I find that shifting into neutral or reverse speeds up the warm up process.

So all you other snake oil addicts like me with an AW4 snake oil story start posting those results!!!!! Please!

N8s93XJ:
...but still, really like the thread on tranny fluids... just want to revisit the original post.

 

[ehall]

Ehall,

Back to your earlier post of using Dexon VI (which is #6, the newest synthetic stuff), and thinking it is too thin and might be causing the cold slipage on yours. Here is my thinking, doesn't the T fluid get thinner as it heats up, so why would it stop slipping as the T fluid heated up if it was a viscosity issue? By the way, what year is yours?

I am thinking it is a gummy varnish, sticking valve issue, which if that is true, then a solvent additive and later, hot tranny flush (Drain it hot) should be the solution. How many miles on yours? Did your cold tranny problem start before the Dexron 6 (VI)

My AW4 is in a 91, it has 335k miles so the slippage is just worn seals. It had a lot of problems when I got it but as of right now it only has the cold slipping and a quick shift out of third into overdrive when the tranny is in Power mode (works fine in Comfort).

My plan at the moment is to run some Auto-RX cleaner through it for 1000 miles, then change the filter and fluids. I'll stay with Dexron VI but will add a quart of Trans-X to help recondition the seals.

I had hoped to replace it and the engine by now but my Cadillac has been giving me fits lately.

 

[Sponge Bob]

So did changing the filter fix the problem?
__________________
34 MPG , '85 2WD Cherokee Pioneer with custom installed, 64 hp, 2.2 L Nissan SD22 Diesel 5 spd Manual; & 3 Renix XJs, '87 Wagoneer 4.0, 4WD, & Too Many Miles, '87 Cherokee 2WD, & '89 Cherokee Pioneer 2WD, all 4dr. #2091


yes it did.. i also had a delayed 1st to 2nd shift on cold mournings. now all is well.

 

[tcv4444]

Just last week the AW4 behind my 234k '89 4.0 started slipping, but only the torque converter lockup was having the problem. Around town, 1-3rd and (mostly) 4th were ok. It was most noticable on the highway above 65 or when loaded down, and was slowly but surely geting worse. Then it started slipping at around 40mph around town, right when the tq lockup occurs, and it would do it in 3rd and 4th. Today it was all over the place, holding steady in 1st and 2nd (maybe higher than normal rpms though) and slipping in upper 3rd and 4th The tq would try a few times and then seemingly stop attempting to lock. It was most pronounnced after the engine/tranny got hot.
:repair: Since I have to work every other day of the week and use the Heep to get there, today was a crunch day to solve the problem. I drained fluid and refilled with Napa Dex III/Mercon and a quart of Trans-X (the guy at NAPA convinced me that Valvoline, which I was going to get, makes their house brand ATF. Either way, better than the orange stuff in the tranny).
Although I believe it to be a good product, I think the Trans-X is best used to solve a different problem than I was having. It's very thin, smells like a strong solvent and would probably do a great job cleaning the junk out of a tranny without shocking it like a flush would. Although the slipping hadn't gotten much worse with the Trans-X, it didn't get any better. I drove 50 miles or so around town, hitting the freeway now and then to make sure all solenoids and gears were getting worked. Tranny/engine seemed to get a little hot with ouside ambient temperatures around 100.

I decided to do the filter and another fluid change as a last resort for the dying transmission. I would have taken some pictures, but things got messy when the pan wouldn't fit between the exauhst and crossmember. :flamemad: I had to jack the tranny (via transfercase) up a bit, unbolt the crossmember, and let it hang from the rubber mount to get just enough clearance. I ended up taking an ATF bath in 100+ heat uke: I forgot that there's quite a bit of fluid left in the pan even after dropping the plug.

The good news is no chunks, just a consistent coating of fine grey particles and not a lot of metal on the magnets. This time I added three quarts of Valvoline MaxLife Dex/Merc and two 24oz bottles of Lucas Stop Slip. It indicates one, or two for large/worn transmissions. Lucas is very different than Trans-X. It's about as thick as their engine oil additive, only red. Very sticky and tacky, too. I think this is what the doctor ordered! It's only been 10 miles, but the slipping is completely gone, even at WOT on the freeway. I'll post an update in a few weeks or when it starts sliping again. Future plans right now are to drain and refill with the MaxLife and another bottle of Lucas Stop Slip in 500-1,000 miles.

Just wanted to get some thoughts on today's experiment:


Diagnosis: Thin solvent: no fix. Sticky thick stuff: immediate result. To me this points to a bad seal. Maybe both helped a little? Also, would a clogged filter have starved the tq/pump of the fluid necessary to properly actuate the lock up and other solenoids?

Would a worn out fan clutch have allowed the trans to heat up and destroy the special properies of the fluid (it was orangeish), and why would the lock up converter be the first to suffer? (Don't worry, new fan clutch is on the passenger seat, top of the list for tomorrow morning).

I think one owner did a lot of towing and then subsequent owners didn't maintain it as well as any of us certianly would have. Anyone wanna take bets on how much longer it'll last? I have already priced a used trans from the boneyard and I'm considering this one to be on borrowed time. If it gets me to Feb of next year I will have gotten my $75 worth in additives and a filter. Damn. I was saving for a 3" lift, not a new juicebox.

Excuse the long post. It was a long, hot day and I inhaled enough petroleum products for all of us. :looney:

 

[N8s93XJ]

Hey guys... sorry, it's been a while -- and I haven't posted like I said I would. Perhaps you guys have heard it has been a little wet in Wisconsin this summer...? A great summer to own a Jeep! ...a bad summer to own property on Lake Delton, or.. what was Lake Delton.

At any rate, I have yet to change my tranny filter -- maybe in two weeks. After my 900 mile roadtrip (Milwaukee to Canada, more or less), the Merc V fluid was smooth as butta... no noise, no hesitations, smooth shifting... after it warmed up. Gas mileage seemed to improve by 1 - 1.5 mpg with the synthetic fluid. I did put 1/3 quart of Seafoam down the tube -- seemed to soften the cold start clatter a little.

While looking around for snake oils, I found this: http://www.microlon.com/automotive_engine_treatment.php

I'm a little ashamed to admit that I stumbled across this stuff on a 'Fast & Furious' 'pocket rocket' website (...oh, the horror...), but the homepage has fluids for anything metal, from guns to aircraft. Sweet Redemption. Frankly, I don't know anything about Microlon, but it seems interesting and maybe worth a shot before dumping $$$ on a poorly timed rebuild.

barring another deep soaking... more later?
-N8

 

[Ecomike]

tcv4444,

How do you know for sure what part was slipping? IOW how do you know it was the TC lock up slipping, and not a clutch pack or aswitching from gear to another back and forth?

How did the RPMs react to light acceleration and deceleration when you think the TC was locked?

 

[lawsoncl]

My thoughts exactly. Could just be the switch at the brake pedal is gubbered up and telling the TCU the brake is on, which means no t/c lockup. Seems like a semi common problem as the grease in the grease dries up to a bubble gum consistency and prevents the contacts from touching.

Easy enough to test with a meter, btw. It's the white white way up on the brake pedal. You should have +12-volts or close to 0-volts depending on the light-blue wire if the brake pedal is pushed (can't remember which is which off hand). If you don't have +12volts at all, check the fuse in the wiring harness up by the Trans Computer under the right side of the dash.

 

[tcv4444]

I'll might test the switch at the breake pedal anyway, but I'm pretty sure it was slippage and I'm pretty sure it was the tq:

- The problem happened much more on uphill grades and under load or heavy throttle than flat road cruising. With light throttle it would hold unless it was real hot. It decelarated like a normal automatic - RPM's drop to somewhere in between the RPM for the gear you're in and idle.

-The slippage was about 2-300 rpm's worth and only happened above 40 mph and in 3rd (shifter placed in 3rd) or 4th. This is consistent with tq lockup function as verified when a few months ago I puposely made it unlock by holding down gas and tapping brake at the same time to check if it was working, which at that time, it was. When slipping the car shuddered back and forth 2-300 rpm between tq locked rpm and unlocked rpm, and if I didn't lay off throttle it would eventually just run at the higher rpm. I could almost taste burnt clutch material. :lickout:

Not to sound like an asshat, but if the stop slip stuff and a filter and fluid change made this much difference, I think it's safe to say it was not electrical. Drove another 60 miles today with no slippage.

 

[Ecomike]

Looking at an AW4 service manual it says there is a "direct clutch that is engaged for 3rd and 4th gears and reverse only, so if it was slipping, direct clutch only, it might be the cause. Also looks like low fluid pressure can cause slipping. I could see that thick Lucas tranny additive sealing better and boosting pump pressure too, so it might have solved a low pump pressure due to leaking internal seals at low rpms in 3rd and 4th.

I am almost tempted to try some myself as I do not seem to have a solid direct drive lock even though the TC solenoid is getting power on mine ( I installed a light on mine). I do feel the rpm drop a little when the TC locks, but it feels like something is still not entirely locked up afterwards when I give it a little gas, the rpm still goes up on the tach.

 

[sprngfldxj]

Not super familiar with the AW4, but what is the "ideal operational tendencies" (personality) of the torque converter on the AW4?
What is the "operational tendencies of the AW4 in general?
My tranny seems to want to engage the torque converter at 35mph. When it does, it seems to want to do it really qiuck, almost as if it was waiting for me to get to 35 impatiently.

 

[N8s93XJ]

Finished the tranny mess I started two months ago this weekend.

GSeq's suggestion on Berryman's cleaned out a lot of gunk -- the tranny looks new! I replaced the filter, added 1/2 qt of Trans-X, ~1 qt of Amsoil, then the rest with Mobile ATF with Merc V on the label.

It's never shifted better!

 

[Ecomike]

My daughter's 89 AW4 (2WD) started leaking at the drive shaft seal the other day, rear of the AW4. The fluid was a little brown too.

So far just added 15 oz of Trans-X, drove about 150 miles and leak has stopped. No other problems yet. But I have noticed that seems to rapidly switch from 3rd to 4th and back at about 35 mph +/- .5 mph while at a steady cruise. I am thinking TPS may be noisy at that sweet spot.