Any Non religious people here?

[XJEEPER]

Jeff, I'm not talking about believing in God. I'm talking about believing in one organized religion. You have to have blind faith to believe in god however when a person....especially a person surrounded by a ton of controversy...starts a religion, it just seems smart to check that person or religion out a little bit.

For the record, I have a very strong belief in God. I just don't think any one organized religion has it right.

I respect your beliefs Ryan. I would add that anyone who is interested in a religion should check it out A LOT.

 

[XJEEPER]

I researched it from a few angles, and now I have a Testimony of it. THe propane is real.


Natural gas is a myth.

I believe that God has a great sense of humor......He could have made farts silent and odorless.

 

[DrMoab]

I believe that God has a great sense of humor......He could have made farts silent and odorless.

He also made the platypus

 

[BigSky89XJ]

Might as well throw my two-cents worth in as well. Do I believe in a superior being...yes. Do I need some college educated minister telling me what to think...NO! I retain a measure of intelligence, I can think for myself. When I see all of these sports figures "thanking god" for their great game, I feel repulsed. You would think an all powerful being would have better things to do than help you with your football skills. In my humble opinion, the Bible is a collection of fables meant to shape morality, not the actual word of God (Oh boy, here come the hits!). I believe we are measured by our actions, not what some religious mouthpiece tells us we should do.atriot:

 

[tigerchief]

Might as well throw my two-cents worth in as well. Do I believe in a superior being...yes. Do I need some college educated minister telling me what to think...NO! I retain a measure of intelligence, I can think for myself. When I see all of these sports figures "thanking god" for their great game, I feel repulsed. You would think an all powerful being would have better things to do than help you with your football skills. In my humble opinion, the Bible is a collection of fables meant to shape morality, not the actual word of God (Oh boy, here come the hits!). I believe we are measured by our actions, not what some religious mouthpiece tells us we should do.atriot:

xtrillion.

You've basically qualified everything I have said in this thread.

And why I have found out some of the outrageous things that I have.

If you get any hits, it'll be from people who have deserted God's creative impulse to know and discover: those that have bowed down to false prophets for comfort over undertaking the trials and tribulations of the Odyssey (Soul growth).

BeLIEvers are being led to circle the drain downwards in their soul evolution.

And by false Prophets, I am emphatically pointing to current day religions and the blind belief syndrome. The few historical writings attributed to a guy that may or may not resemble the Jesus of the Bible actually decried AGAINST organized (outside-in) religion over inside-out Knowing of the World because the former can only be used as a power structure for control (and inhibition).

I'm leaving a lot unsaid in consideration to some who may be fragile.

 

[JNickel101]

And by false Prophets, I am emphatically pointing to current day religions and the blind belief syndrome. The few historical writings attributed to a guy that may or may not resemble the Jesus of the Bible actually decried AGAINST organized (outside-in) religion over inside-out Knowing of the World because the former can only be used as a power structure for control (and inhibition).

That's what I always thought too....funny what you understand when you read something.....like the Bible....

:eyes:

 

[Darky]

xtrillion.

You've basically qualified everything I have said in this thread.

And why I have found out some of the outrageous things that I have.

If you get any hits, it'll be from people who have deserted God's creative impulse to know and discover: those that have bowed down to false prophets for comfort over undertaking the trials and tribulations of the Odyssey (Soul growth).

BeLIEvers are being led to circle the drain downwards in their soul evolution.

And by false Prophets, I am emphatically pointing to current day religions and the blind belief syndrome. The few historical writings attributed to a guy that may or may not resemble the Jesus of the Bible actually decried AGAINST organized (outside-in) religion over inside-out Knowing of the World because the former can only be used as a power structure for control (and inhibition).

I'm leaving a lot unsaid in consideration to some who may be fragile.

That's what I always thought too....funny what you understand when you read something.....like the Bible....

:eyes:

Depends on what you mean by "knowing the world". If you read the Bible, Jesus tells us we are not of the world.

Quick question: If you're against organized religion but ok with following the Jesus of the Bible, where's your problem with Christianity? Christianity, at it's core, means to follow Christ. The only record we have of Christ's life and teachings is in the Bible.

 

[JNickel101]

My issue is with all organized religion and the corruption behind it. My other issues are with people who take religious books LITERALLY - they are simply a guide for how to live a moral and good life - religion was created to give society a base for moralistic behavior....or to elicit fear (see, "god-fearing") in order to scare people into acting right.

Many "devoutly" religious people I have met are incredibly hypocritical. To be honest, Mormons are probably ones I respect the most, just because every one I have ever met and been friends with is incredibly nice (almost too nice - hehehe) - admittedly, there is much I don't understand about the religion, and yes, I have been probably unfairly a smartass to XJEEPER in this thread (apologies) but really, I'd like clarification on a lot that I don't understand.

Never said I followed Jesus - I believe he was a real person - son of "God", no - a little crazy? yes....very smart and manipulative?....yes....

 

[Darky]

Tell me what you mean by hypocritical. Expecting someone to be perfect and never do anything wrong is a bit unrealistic. As far as God-fearing, it's more of an issue of awe. I don't fear that God will smite me if I don't do what I should, but I do recognize that He is a bit smarter than I.

 

[JNickel101]

You believe that "God" is a literal being, as opposed to an idea/concept/origin of faith and understanding...?

Hypocritical - in my youth, I regularly attended church, Bible study, "youth group", church camps.....

....every Pastor we ever had was involved in some sort of scandal (this also happened at multiple other churches I've been familiar with - from PA to SD to Guam to NM).

....every girl in our Bible study was a tramp - or a "free spirit" - in fact, some of the most "Christian" girls I've ever met were also the easiest.

....most of the guys were dirtbags...I wouldn't trust any of them further than I could throw them. They were always getting into fights, stealing, doing drugs....

Church camps were huge drinking/drug/sex fests. Craziness.

God-fearing are the ones who seem to be the most moralistic - but they take it way too far because they tend to preach their beliefs on everyone and chastize everyone who doesn't behave the same way they do.

Too many experiences in my life that have turned me off to organized religion - as I said before, I at least respect Mormons because they NEVER have tried to push their faith/beliefs onto me - I never understood most of their beliefs, heard lots of weird stuff (no idea what is true and what is "fundamentalist" or whatever) but I at least respected them because they seemed true to their faith and morals.

....although I will say this - my good friend Kim is Mormon and she absolutely refuses to date a Mormon guy....not sure what that says about them

 

[REVROK]

You believe that "God" is a literal being, as opposed to an idea/concept/origin of faith and understanding...?

Hypocritical - in my youth, I regularly attended church, Bible study, "youth group", church camps.....

....every Pastor we ever had was involved in some sort of scandal (this also happened at multiple other churches I've been familiar with - from PA to SD to Guam to NM).

....every girl in our Bible study was a tramp - or a "free spirit" - in fact, some of the most "Christian" girls I've ever met were also the easiest.

....most of the guys were dirtbags...I wouldn't trust any of them further than I could throw them. They were always getting into fights, stealing, doing drugs....

Church camps were huge drinking/drug/sex fests. Craziness.

God-fearing are the ones who seem to be the most moralistic - but they take it way too far because they tend to preach their beliefs on everyone and chastize everyone who doesn't behave the same way they do.

Too many experiences in my life that have turned me off to organized religion - as I said before, I at least respect Mormons because they NEVER have tried to push their faith/beliefs onto me - I never understood most of their beliefs, heard lots of weird stuff (no idea what is true and what is "fundamentalist" or whatever) but I at least respected them because they seemed true to their faith and morals.

....although I will say this - my good friend Kim is Mormon and she absolutely refuses to date a Mormon guy....not sure what that says about them

OK... I am a pastor and I cannot believe I am saying this because it sounds too much like bragging, but JNickel I just cannot let that go unanswered so here goes. I married as a virgin. I have been faithfully married to one woman for 27 years. In fact, there has not been a divorce or any infidelity in my family for 3 generations with 3 siblings and 14 of our children, since my parents married 63 years ago (it amounts to over 300 years in combination), nor in my wife's family. I have never been involved in any kind of scandal. My church runs one of the largest food pantries in one of the largest counties in California, feeding 10's of thousands of people a year (winner of the US Mayor's End Hunger Award), though its is not a large church. It also supports many other homeless and community ministries and will probably distribute at least some of the Sierra Chapter's Toys for Tots donations next week (we gave away over 400 toys last year). Because I pastor a smaller church, I have to work full time for the benefits. All told I work probably 80-100 hours a week (...and probably get to wheel 1-2 times a year... I know... stop whining). I am quite open about my personal failings because I am far from perfect, but many of my best friends are fellow pastors and they resemble me far more than the men you describe. As a group, they are good men and the churches you describe certainly "knew how to pick 'em." Please do not patronize me as some kind of mentally challenged "goody two shoes," my IQ is 168, I am listed in Who's Who in American Colleges and Universities my grad school GPA was 3.85 while working 40 hours and pastoring a church. My lifestyle is a rational choice AND a faith choice based on my belief that God has demonstrated the most ethical system of life through Jesus Christ, a life of love and self sacrifice. I defy anyone to call me a hypocrite because it simply won't stick and it will not stick to the pastors I call "friend" (Maybe I just see through the other kind).

 

[Darky]

JNickel, don't know what to say about your experiences. Mine has been the opposite. There's been only minor minor controversy surrounding the life of anyone I've known in the ministry, and that was before they were were saved. When I belonged to a church large enough for a decent sized youth group, there was no drinking, sex, or drugs. Most of the people I knew who were professing Christians lived according to what they spoke.
However, you also have to understand that not everyone who attends church or claims to be a Christian/Muslim/Mormon/Jew/etc actually is. Some say it, maybe even believe it, but not far enough to live it.

 

[JNickel101]

I'm not trying to stereotype and say "all" are like that - I'm just explaining my background, where I came from, what I saw, and what started me on the path to becoming very soured against orgainized religion.

Seems about 50/50 to be honest. Not to be cliche`, but it is either hit or BIG miss....you're either like REVROK and Darky, or you're the complete opposite.

Along with XJEEPER, I will say I respect you guys - I don't agree with your beliefs, but I also don't agree with my best friend's - yet we're able to get along and we understand each other. Strength in your convictions is a noble quality.

IMO though, I've just never felt the NEED to be a Christian....or religious at all. Guess I'm missing something :dunno:

 

[REVROK]

I'm not trying to stereotype and say "all" are like that - I'm just explaining my background, where I came from, what I saw, and what started me on the path to becoming very soured against orgainized religion.

Seems about 50/50 to be honest. Not to be cliche`, but it is either hit or BIG miss....you're either like REVROK and Darky, or you're the complete opposite.

Along with XJEEPER, I will say I respect you guys - I don't agree with your beliefs, but I also don't agree with my best friend's - yet we're able to get along and we understand each other. Strength in your convictions is a noble quality.

IMO though, I've just never felt the NEED to be a Christian....or religious at all. Guess I'm missing something :dunno:

I hope you take it in the spirit intended when I offer the finest and deepest closing I know... Grace and Peace to you, Tim

 

[JNickel101]

I was told by a Catholic Priest once that Catholics believe only a certain number (specific number actually) can/will be saved. He said God does not give everyone the gift of Faith.

Pretty jacked up, huh?

I never went back to RCIA after that....

 

[goodburbon]

I was told by a Catholic Priest once that Catholics believe only a certain number (specific number actually) can/will be saved. He said God does not give everyone the gift of Faith.

Pretty jacked up, huh?

I never went back to RCIA after that....

The bible actually specifically gives a number that will be saved. The number of the self proclaimed faithful exceeds that number.

 

[Darky]

I was told by a Catholic Priest once that Catholics believe only a certain number (specific number actually) can/will be saved. He said God does not give everyone the gift of Faith.

Pretty jacked up, huh?

I never went back to RCIA after that....

I believe that there is a certain number who will be saved, but no limit on how many God allows to be saved. I mean, that would just be silly and contradictory to Jesus' life and teachings if it were predetermined who would be saved and who wouldn't. Jesus' great commission, "Go forth into all the world and preach the gospel" wouldn't make any sense if it was all predetermined. Why should I risk ridicule when it will make no difference in anyone's lives?

The bible actually specifically gives a number that will be saved. The number of the self proclaimed faithful exceeds that number.

Really? Where is that? Never heard of such a thing.

 

[hiimmred]

I think they are referring to the 144,000. I forget the whole reference to them though, it's been about 36 years since I attended church.

 

[JNickel101]

I believe that there is a certain number who will be saved, but no limit on how many God allows to be saved.

I'm pretty sure that is the same thing right there. So which is it?

So he's allowing many more to NOT be saved. That's true love, man....

:read:

It is in Revelations, Darky....Himmred is right, "the 144,000".

....from what I read, they are 12,000 Jews from each of the 12 Tribes of Israel. Spread throughout the world. They will be the inhabitants of Heaven.

The rest of the supposed "faithful" will be left here on Earth to live.

 

[Darky]

I'm pretty sure that is the same thing right there. So which is it?

So he's allowing many more to NOT be saved. That's true love, man....

:read:

It is in Revelations, Darky....Himmred is right, "the 144,000".

....from what I read, they are 12,000 Jews from each of the 12 Tribes of Israel. Spread throughout the world. They will be the inhabitants of Heaven.

The rest of the supposed "faithful" will be left here on Earth to live.

Yeah, the 144,00 are the remnant left behind during the Tribulation to witness after the church is taken out. You are referring to that out of context.
As far as allowing people to not be saved, no one is forced into accepting Christ and receiving the free gift of salvation. God is making them not be saved, if you choose not to accept Christ you choose your own destiny. God will not force anyone into belief or unbelief.