2 door Cherokee 01 with 25,000 miles... mild build for daughters first Jeep

[Anak]

I did read that the 2 door XJ are heavy doors compared to 4 door XJ and since Black Beauty's shut so nice want to keep it that way.
Frame plating is cheap insurance like mentioned, so will be searching builds on what all is involved.
Who makes best fitting? Not necessarily the thickest or most coverage.

...


Mount some tow hooks somehow.
Wonder if these would still fit after comp mount ?https://www.quadratec.com/products/76045_802.htm

With regard to frame plating, it is going to be hard to get a comparison of fitment as there are probably not very many folks who have installed a variety of different stiffeners, and even then, each set would have gone on a different XJ that probably would have brought its own set of variables to the picture.

What makes the biggest difference is the installer who takes the time to fit the stiffeners to the chassis. Lots of clamps and a few jacks are essential. And a willingness to remove all the clamps and jacks and readjust before welding.

As regards those tow hooks, my guess is that they would fit. It is a only a guess though, as I haven't seen a picture of those things installed. This seems to be the only pic:

But it would appear they mount entirely on the outside of the frame. That probably means they would not interfere with the Comp Mount as it mounts entirely below and within the frame. Here is a pic that shows what I believe is the area in question:

I would expect to need longer hardware as the Tomken brackets are sharing the same frame bolt holes as the Comp Mount, but they are on opposite sides, so I don't think they would interfere with each other. Note the bumper brackets also share those holes up front. That makes for a good stack of pieces you have to get to line up all at once. Probably doable, but don't tighten anything down until you have really checked that nothing downstream is going to be out of whack (like bumper to body lines).

I swear one of these days I am going to finish my Comp Mount install, running it through the factory bumper. Then I might have more to add. But at the rate I am getting things done lately I will be turning to you for lessons on that subject.

 

[Red Mistress]

devildog0 ... I agree Black Beauty probably should be completely left alone, but Jeeps are made to modify.

Weasel ... Nice looking rig you built. I don't take any advice as bad, I like to know all my options and then the ultimate decision is mine.

Yes this is a mild build and want to maintain a stock look since this XJ is so minty clean & a girls Jeep.

However I do want a 31" lifted Jeep that handles good & brakes exceptional.
JKR axles are not too heavy, but strong and have 4:10's and E lockers which could also be controlled from Alpine KAC-001.
By the time I regear, WJ brakes & steering then it's probably less expensive but better to make the swap to JK.

I'm not fan of the large rim low profile tire either, it's a current fad that I hope passes soon.

I have a ARB bumper on my 7.3 Excursion (wife's driver) and i modified a Hansen bumper for my big Scrambler back in 1999 before anyone frenched in lights. Both are great bumpers.

The reason I'm considering Boostwerks comp winch mount is that it also tightens up front of XJ and pillow block supports sector shaft all while keeping the face of XJ visible & stock looking.

 

[Weasel]

I wasn't implying that it's bad advice. Just for the level your at I don't think it's warranted work.

I did a hidden winch mount before it was popular but it was a bunch of work and I think any good bumper will stiffen up the front the same amount.

Forgot about upgrading the track bar, do that as well. The double shear mount is pretty easy to install.

JKR axles have weak tubes, and the bolt pattern is different. You will need to run 16 or 17's with the brake size (I think). Think they are also 4" wider? They are okay but unsure if they warrant the work to install either.

The front D30 is a pretty decent axle. The rear tends to be the issue with the 8.25 and locker options. I put a Honda Passport 44 in the rear of my white one. Not sure I'd recommend that either as it was a bit of work.

 

[Red Mistress]

Anak ... Agree like any aftermarket product...fitment is always required.
Plus yea, the XJ being plated may or probably isn't factory straight.

Mostly want a tow hook so I can admire something (winch cable & hook attached to tow hook) all the work that went into hiding the winch.

I replied to your Boostwerks thread month or so ago. You did excellent job of pre-production testing & pics.

I have a NOS Jeep SE 1979 one year only... Ramsey hidden winch kit and remote freespool for my 82 SJ Cherokee but installing is on back burner. Excuse... A/C went out and searching for NOS condensor.... and going do all while front end apart.

Guess if I decide about swapping axles & if so then that's best time to add front & mid frame stiffners. Iron Rock Offroad looks to have nice ones.

When I search for frame stiffners I get so many hits and tough to find in build thread exactly which brand covers what area.

Anyways ya'll have nice weekend.

 

[Anak]

Don't miss the Hooligan stiffeners while you are comparing. I like the way they wrap around.

And thank you for the compliments on the write-up.

 

[SlowXj]

My xj is old rusty and beaten, but I installed iron rock mid stiffeners about a year ago. I wasn't pleased with the fitment personally. Also I wasn't a huge fan of the rosette holes being slots. I feel a regular hole would be easier to weld. My problem could (definitely is) that I'm a very novice welder. The fitment issue was that the lip that supported the floor wouldn't sit flush against the floor. Again it may have been a fluke but worth mentioning.

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[Hypoid]

Extra points for the pictures with a boat or trailer attached to your vehicle!

 

[Anak]

Given the rest of the stable, one of these might be in order:

 

[Red Mistress]

LOL ... definitely get that decal.
Bought her yellow magnetic sticker that says “New Driver” and she said no way that going on my Jeep!

My wife named my Jeep’s mistresses & even had magnetic signs on big Scrambler when we left wedding & honeymooned 2001 for 35th Easter Jeep Safari.

So that’s how I got my forum “handle” Res Mistress

 

[Rob Mayercik]

This is your daughter's first vehicle - it's going to see far more pavement than trails. Why have that expensive piece of gear out in the rain/snow/ice/sun all the time, weighing down the nose and visible to theives/vandals/idiots?

The hidden-mount winch is trick-looking, but fitting it behind a stock bumper will limit your options in winch (there was a factory kit to do this, but it was designed around a 6000-lb Ramsey unit), and it pushed the bumper out 2-3 inches and required a "fill panel" to cover the gap.

My suggestion is to forget the permanent-mount winch for now. Find a nice aftermarket bumper with receiver for the front (JCR, perhaps), and cradle-mount with Andersen-style disconnects. Oh, and a locking hitch pin for when you do want it on the nose. Going this route also means you can skip over factory-style tow hooks (BTDT) - they work, but a solid, tied-into-the-frame (the 3 bolts/side the OEM bumper uses will NOT be sufficient for recovery) bumper with D-ring tabs

Some will say it's not as strong as permanent mount, but so far I've done OK with my Q-series 11K on a cradle, and seems plenty strong for what I've done with it.

There's also the argument that it sticks out a lot farther, and impacts approach angle. For some it might, but for me (got the winch when I was at 3.5 with 31s like you're planning for), and I never bump with it (maybe once or twice in 5 years it's kissed the dirt as I climbed onto or off something?).

 

[Brent T]

Here is a link to the SFR WJ steering conversion package: http://www.stinkyfab.com/sfr-high-roller-wj-steering-brake-kit-xj-mj/

Whether or not to plate the frame rails is a call you will have to make. Given the pristine nature of this Jeep I would be hesitant to start grinding and welding on it, but OTOH, that plating should extend the life of the vehicle. So I am of two minds on the subject.

If you opt not to plate it then doing things such as the Boostwerks Comp Mount and a C-Rock steering box support would be the wise course. Boostwerks will support the sector shaft down low. Add the C-Rock kit to support the box where it mounts to the frame. Between the two of those you would be doing the best I can think of without getting into grinding and welding.

X2 on the Comp Mount and a steering box support. I have both, but no front frame plating yet. Wheeling on 35's pretty hard and no issues so far after 8+ years. Having said that, I've had mid stiffeners installed for several years now and I do have front stiffeners sitting in the garage, just too lazy to burn them in. At the very least, install an aftermarket steering box "spacer". The stock aluminum one tends to break and become useless.

 

[Red Mistress]

This is your daughter's first vehicle - it's going to see far more pavement than trails. Why have that expensive piece of gear out in the rain/snow/ice/sun all the time, weighing down the nose and visible to theives/vandals/idiots?

The hidden-mount winch is trick-looking, but fitting it behind a stock bumper will limit your options in winch (there was a factory kit to do this, but it was designed around a 6000-lb Ramsey unit), and it pushed the bumper out 2-3 inches and required a "fill panel" to cover the gap.

My suggestion is to forget the permanent-mount winch for now. Find a nice aftermarket bumper with receiver for the front (JCR, perhaps), and cradle-mount with Andersen-style disconnects. Oh, and a locking hitch pin for when you do want it on the nose. Going this route also means you can skip over factory-style tow hooks (BTDT) - they work, but a solid, tied-into-the-frame (the 3 bolts/side the OEM bumper uses will NOT be sufficient for recovery) bumper with D-ring tabs

Some will say it's not as strong as permanent mount, but so far I've done OK with my Q-series 11K on a cradle, and seems plenty strong for what I've done with it.

There's also the argument that it sticks out a lot farther, and impacts approach angle. For some it might, but for me (got the winch when I was at 3.5 with 31s like you're planning for), and I never bump with it (maybe once or twice in 5 years it's kissed the dirt as I climbed onto or off something?).

Yes this XJ is daily driver, we have other Jeeps for trails. That said, no telling what she will do on her own.

Weighing the front end down of Cherokee has been my latest concern in handling of the XJ.
Can you tell big difference in handling when you have the winch mounted?
Guessing XJ still handles good with heavy winch bumpers?
Anyone have to run different heavier rate sway bars to compensate?

Brent T ... nice Red XJ you have, that's the cleanest exo-cage's I've ever seen !
Did you see big difference in tightening up front end after you installed Boostwerks kit ?


I actually had/ then sold... a NOS Jeep SE 295153 XJ / MJ hidden winch kit mount from a Jeep dealership inventory that I bought out years ago. The special winch made by Ramsey to allow pulling from the "mounting feet" was not included. Attached pic of kit installed on Red XJ Laredo:

The Boostwerks kit is much better designed, going to take fab work to fit the OEM bumper on correctly. From Anak's pics think I can make it work.



Pic of my 67 Gladiator with Jeep SE 246 "bubba gump" winch bumper extension with Ramsey PTO.

 

[devildog0]

2 inch front reciever hitch. Can be used for recovery and reciever mounted winches. When you are going somewhere you want the winch strap it down in the cargo area and breaknitout when needed, keeps weight off the front until needed. . Leave it in the garage when commuting, keeps weight out if Jeepnfor better mileage.

It allows you to keep stock bumpers and with trimming the air dam only as much as needed keeps the look low profile.

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[ocean_jet]

Ahhh! What are you doing!? Keep it stock! That thing belongs in a museum!

Yeah.... exactly.

 

[Red Mistress]

As ya'll can see from pics of my Jeeps, I know all about collecting auto's.

Yea this 2 door XJ is low miles and mint, but I can't find a more suitable Jeep for the price for daughter.

I have learned in my 30 years of messing with Jeeps, that it's always better in long run to have patience searching & start off with nicer example then build to expected use.

That said, I know when I modify that value will decline from purist standpoint, but... she needs daily driver.

Other Jeep choices:

1. TJ/LJ not safe for young girl.
2. 4 door XJ, don't want her hauling bunch of friends as too easily distracted.
3. ZJ too modern but looks dated & only 4 door, see #2
4. JK probably best 2nd choice, but I owned one and didn't like. Plus they are rapidly declining in value & too common on roadway.
5. JL - too expensive

What I have decided is to Metalcloak 3.5"lift and see how it does on 31".
If it needs better brakes or re-gear, will swap axles either JK or custom.
If the sector shaft needs bracing, will either do receiver hitch or Boostwerks comp.

Only thing I can't decide is exactly what wheel backspacing fit without cutting fenders.

 

[Rob Mayercik]

Weighing the front end down of Cherokee has been my latest concern in handling of the XJ.
Can you tell big difference in handling when you have the winch mounted?
Guessing XJ still handles good with heavy winch bumpers?
Anyone have to run different heavier rate sway bars to compensate?

I will concede that the only time I'm out on the roads with the winch mounted up front on my truck is running between trailhead and camp (when I am also aired down and disconnected), and while it doesn't appear to me that it changes the dynamics of the front end, that's not the best data set to work with for "normal" street manners (street tire pressure and swaybar on). Since the receiver is centered between the frame rails I wouldn't expect much difference in roll terms, though.

That said, I wasn't alluding to the handling so much as the reduced F/E from the extra weight. As noted by someone else, I leave my winch in the garage when not wheeling, and when I do go it's strapped down in back until I get to the trailhead where I install it with the locking pin. Comes out again and goes back in the "trunk" for the ride home.

I run an old-style JCR Stage 4 front bumper (pre-dates their "Crusader" line), it's basically 2x6 box tube at heart, but it has the advantages of being pretty much the same weight as the OEM bumper is much stronger (it doesn't take much to bend the stock bumper, despite its apparent thickness), and tucks up against the grill nicely.

You can get away with 31s on the stock 3.55 gears like I am doing, but mine isn't a DD and I do find it lugging a bit on hills. Probably I should change to 4.10, but since it's the backup car now that's low priority.

Oh, and I'm running my 31x10.50s on the factory alloy wheels that came on my '92. Just a couple washers under the steering stops, and I was fine.

 

[DustyWagoneer]

All I am gonna say is I have watched Red Mistress do majik to FSJ's for many years, and NEVER once has he done something crazy bad.
Look at the pictures of all his red Jeeps.

Every single one is perfect.

Not to mention the level of parts this guy has (or gets) is nothing but mind boggling.
I am looking forward to his build.

 

[Red Mistress]

Thanks Rob & Dusty

For possible future larger rotors upgrade... I want to run 16" wheel.
17" Wheels with 31" tires IMO don't fit the look of Classic Cherokee.

From my searching ... aluminum OEM Wheel are Icon 16x7" wheels which are correct for 00-01 XJ
Problem is they have 5.25" backspacing, whereas the 15x8" XJ wheels have 4.5" BS.

Quadratec makes a similar wheel 16x8 with 4.5" BS

Refurbished Icon's are about same price as Quadratec wheel.


I don't know enough about XJ like do you try to keep the tires tucked into wheel well for best clearance or push them out ?

Hear that the 97-01 fenders are smaller than 84-96.
Know about adding washers to limit steering radius.

Another option would be to see how my LJ Moab wheels with 5" BS fit lifted Cherokee, but they have 33" OD x 10.50 width Buckshot's on them.

I found NOS set of 5 of the very limited run of JK 17" Hutchinson Beadlock wheels for the LJ... but they have 6.75" BS and I haven't installed on LJ yet.
Long range plan for LJ is 6.4 Hemi swap & wider stronger axles with 5 on 5 bolt pattern.

Heck I could put the LJR axles in this Cherokee.... humm..:doh:
So searching for TJ axles in XJ Cherokee swap.

 

[smccollamjr]

The LJR axles would be a good swap for 31s. 4.10 gears and stronger axles. Front would be a bolt in.


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[ocean_jet]

That said, I know when I modify that value will decline from purist standpoint, but... she needs daily driver.

Other Jeep choices:

I was just goofing around. I'm just jealous it's really an amazing looking XJ.

I am actually putting together a '98 for my daughter who is driving soon as well, also putting it on 31's. It's a 4-door, but the back seat is currently removed. Maybe I should leave it that way for a while...