NAXJA Forums -::- North American XJ Association  

Go Back   NAXJA Forums -::- North American XJ Association > NAXJA Unibody Jeep Technical Forums > Jeep Cherokee XJ (1984 - 2001) > Modified Tech Discussion
HOME Member FAQ Sponsor Info Rules Bylaws E-Mail

Modified Tech Discussion Forum for Tech related discussion for Modified XJ's and MJ's.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old November 25th, 2004, 08:12
robs robs is offline
NAXJA Forum User
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 255
Overheating is not solved

Yes, I have searched... many, many times..

Here's where I'm at... 95XJ, AW4, 160k on the clock, well maintained it's whole life... (know original owner).

Anytime outside temp over 80F... one good uphill blast in the woods and it's at 230F... if I don't let it cool down, each additional blast will keep adding 5F to it.

On the interstate, once the converter unlocks you can see the gage start to rise.

Have verified outlet temp with temp gun.

List of what's been done.

-GDI radiator
-Now a CSF radiator
-Plate and coil tranny cooler
-Robert Shaw high flow t-stat
-New fan clutch
-Flowkooler high volume pump
-Water wetter
-Forced cooled hood vents

Probably some other stuff that I've forgotten about...

I want to do Moab next year, but I've gotta get this solved first.

Toying with the idea of adding an additional heater core under the hood with a fan to add cooling capacity. Not sure how that would help.

I've read about the Modines, but I've already dumped 2 radiators in this thing after everyone said "yeah, worked for me" and the results just remained the same...
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old November 25th, 2004, 08:18
logdog's Avatar
logdog logdog is offline
NAXJA Member #703
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Riverton, UT
Posts: 776
Re: Overheating is not solved

First thing I would do is lose the t-stat and get one from the dealership. Next get a Modine radiator. Its only a two row but the cells are much bigger, and holds more fluid.

You may consider a tranny cooler, and or an oil cooler.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old November 25th, 2004, 08:31
czidesigns czidesigns is offline
NAXJA Forum User
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Columbia, Mo
Posts: 23
Re: Overheating is not solved

I have an 89 that has had the cooling demons for quite a while now. With the differences in cooling systems it really seems that these problems should not cross over from one system to the other (open or closed). I think from my experiences that the blocks might actually decompose over time and produce sedement that flows through the cooling system clogging up passages, the smaller they are the easier they clog. The stock radiators and many aftermarket radiators have very small passages, adding more rows actually means smaller passages, not larger. I haven't really found a solution but have kept my demons at bay by doing a open system conversion and routine system backflushing.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old November 25th, 2004, 08:40
Harvo's Avatar
Harvo Harvo is offline
NAXJA Forum User
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Chattanooga
Posts: 481
Re: Overheating is not solved

A buddy of mine had similar issues with his. He tried about everythingyou did and eventually ended up cutting a hole in the hood and putting an electric pull fan there. His conclusion was that his york compressor and conical K&N filled in the last little bit of space under the hood. He figured there was nowhere for the heat to escape, keeping the engine too hot, and keeping an already overtaxed system from being able to cool it.

Harve Out.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old November 25th, 2004, 09:11
old_man's Avatar
old_man old_man is offline
NAXJA Member
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Loveland, Colorado
Posts: 15,837
Re: Overheating is not solved

You mentioned something that might be related. You said when the torque converter unlocks. It is possible that the tranny oil cooler is dumping way too much heat into the radiator because of a faulty tranny. Try taking the tranny cooler in the radiator out of the loop and see what happens with the engine.
__________________
Tom Houston - Former Colorado Chapter President, current Treasurer , Terminal Adrenaline Junkie, and Rocket Scientist
Loveland, Colorado My teardrop build
You're just jealous because the voices don't talk to you.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old November 25th, 2004, 13:38
Goatman's Avatar
Goatman Goatman is offline
NAXJA Member
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Bakersfield, CA
Posts: 11,444
Re: Overheating is not solved

Quote:
Originally Posted by robs
Yes, I have searched... many, many times..

Here's where I'm at... 95XJ, AW4, 160k on the clock, well maintained it's whole life... (know original owner).

Anytime outside temp over 80F... one good uphill blast in the woods and it's at 230F... if I don't let it cool down, each additional blast will keep adding 5F to it.

On the interstate, once the converter unlocks you can see the gage start to rise.

Have verified outlet temp with temp gun.

List of what's been done.

-GDI radiator
-Now a CSF radiator
-Plate and coil tranny cooler
-Robert Shaw high flow t-stat
-New fan clutch
-Flowkooler high volume pump
-Water wetter
-Forced cooled hood vents

Probably some other stuff that I've forgotten about...

I want to do Moab next year, but I've gotta get this solved first.

Toying with the idea of adding an additional heater core under the hood with a fan to add cooling capacity. Not sure how that would help.

I've read about the Modines, but I've already dumped 2 radiators in this thing after everyone said "yeah, worked for me" and the results just remained the same...
How long has it been doing this? What was the symptom that caused you to do the other mods? What did it do, and what was the last mod that you made?

Have you had the radiator sniffed for hydrocarbons?
__________________
TEAM/PETTY CASHRacing........2013 Ultra4 Stock Class National Champions
Check out the TEAM Facebook page for the full story of our 2013 winning season: https://www.facebook.com/Team
Thanks to , Falken Tires, Bishop-Buehl Racing Engines, Ten Factory Axles, Brown Dog, Hooker Harness, BILSTEIN, Raceline Wheels, WARN, G&G Auto Repair/Off Road, Yukon Gear and Axle, Full Traction, Cal, Russ, James, and many, many others.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old November 25th, 2004, 13:46
BillR's Avatar
BillR BillR is offline
Toy Jeep driver!
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Flagstaff, AZ
Posts: 1,982
Re: Overheating is not solved

Quote:
Originally Posted by Goatman
Have you had the radiator sniffed for hydrocarbons?
Good thought...possible head gasket or cracked head.
The other thing I thought of was some blocked water passages in the block. Have you done a flush that includes the engine?
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old November 25th, 2004, 19:03
robs robs is offline
NAXJA Forum User
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 255
Re: Overheating is not solved

Good thoughts...

It started right after I started wheeling it a couple years ago... in the woods... good uphill blast and it hits 230F...

Did the GDI... no help... then started do the other mods one at a time... None of them have made any difference...

The tranny oil cooler was also added by it's lonesome without help...

Hood vents, (powered) don't do crap...



No snifs for hydrocarbons in the system.... the plugs look great, the oil looks great (no foaming), and there's no oil in the radiator or loss of antifreeze... Don't mean it's not a problem...

The original owner had flushed it routinely... the inside of the block looks great.. When I had the waterpump out, I did feel around, and there was no debris in that area and I ran a magnet down around the bottom of the cylinder... nothing... there's no debris behind the t-stat housing in the head...

I do think it's related to the tranny... it's creating heat that's overcoming my system's capacity... On the interstate, I've played games of unlocking the converter (turning on the brake lights unlocks it) and the temp starts climbing on uphill runs under power... but dropping into third and letting it lock, you can still apply lots of power without the temp starting to rise...

The tranny operates beautifully... the fluid is red and smells fine...

I was suprised the plate and coil cooler didn't help...
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old November 25th, 2004, 22:01
Goatman's Avatar
Goatman Goatman is offline
NAXJA Member
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Bakersfield, CA
Posts: 11,444
Re: Overheating is not solved

I'm wondering if you really have a problem. Does it get into the red if you continue to push it, or just get up to around 230*?

Have you tried a mechanical guage to check the accuracy or your guage?

If you don't have a problem under normal driving conditions, but the temp goes up under certain high load conditions....it could be perfectly normal as long as it doesn't go into the red, or get very close to the red.
__________________
TEAM/PETTY CASHRacing........2013 Ultra4 Stock Class National Champions
Check out the TEAM Facebook page for the full story of our 2013 winning season: https://www.facebook.com/Team
Thanks to , Falken Tires, Bishop-Buehl Racing Engines, Ten Factory Axles, Brown Dog, Hooker Harness, BILSTEIN, Raceline Wheels, WARN, G&G Auto Repair/Off Road, Yukon Gear and Axle, Full Traction, Cal, Russ, James, and many, many others.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old November 25th, 2004, 22:57
90KrawlerXJ 90KrawlerXJ is offline
NAXJA Member #1067
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Shreveport,LA
Posts: 110
Re: Overheating is not solved

My only question is: Do you have a separate trans cooler? If not you absolutely need to add one. Autos(especially the weak AW4) will not survive under heavy use with the radiator cooling. Trust me I've proved it in my XJ. $3200 for a rebuilt trans.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old November 25th, 2004, 23:00
90KrawlerXJ 90KrawlerXJ is offline
NAXJA Member #1067
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Shreveport,LA
Posts: 110
Re: Overheating is not solved

Also the electric fan and thermostat setting for it are critical with the stock 4.0L.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old November 25th, 2004, 23:52
Planetcat Planetcat is offline
NAXJA Forum User
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: NorCal
Posts: 447
Re: Overheating is not solved

Quote:
Originally Posted by robs
Yes, I have searched... many, many times..

Anytime outside temp over 80F... one good uphill blast in the woods and it's at 230F... if I don't let it cool down, each additional blast will keep adding 5F to it.

List of what's been done.

-GDI radiator
-Now a CSF radiator
-Plate and coil tranny cooler
-Robert Shaw high flow t-stat
-New fan clutch
-Flowkooler high volume pump
-Water wetter
-Forced cooled hood vents

I've read about the Modines, but I've already dumped 2 radiators in this thing after everyone said "yeah, worked for me" and the results just remained the same...
I have a '96 XJ country 4.0, AW4, etc. I replaced similar stuff that you did with the same exact things (flowkooler, robert shaw, clutch, water wetter, etc.), except put in a 3-row modine. Still boiled over, similar to how yours does (80+* outside temps, and just starts creeping up until boilover). I solved the problem when I put in a single row aluminum radiator from McCulloch Radiators http://www.alumrad.com ($150 or so). If it's like mine, you probably have the AC condender and tranny cooler up in front of the rad behind the grill. I was thinking that maybe because these things are in front of the rad, that the air is not really cool enough when it hits the 2nd and 3rd rows of the radiator. This means that you effectively have a very small tubed one row radiator. The single tube aluminum rad from McCulloch has 1-3/8" tubes. Now, I've towed my 3800 lb boat in 100* temps with it not budging over 200*. Just a theory, but my overheating problems are a thing of the past.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old November 26th, 2004, 00:13
Wiley Coyote's Avatar
Wiley Coyote Wiley Coyote is offline
NAXJA Forum User
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Anchorage, AK
Posts: 430
Re: Overheating is not solved

I had similar overheat problems as you and did the same series of fixes. They all helped, but nothing really worked. The thing that finally put me in the comfort zone was spacing the back of the hood. I removed the hood from the hinges (4 bolts), added a bunch of washers and reinstalled with new, longer bolts. The rear of my hood (by the windshield) sits taller than the front. The extra space allows the fan to push all of that hot air out of the engine bay and suck in new, cold air. It works awesome in traffic and when Im doing 75 mph on the freeway my temp gauge actually drops below normal operating temperature. The mod cost me $2.98 at my local Ace Hardware and took a hour to do. Its a lot easier to get the hood spacing right if you have a buddy hold the opposite side for you.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old November 26th, 2004, 05:51
robs robs is offline
NAXJA Forum User
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 255
Re: Overheating is not solved

Yes, the electric fan is on... and there is a separate tranny cooler...

Every additional blast results in another 5F increase... I usually back down and let it cool off (tranny in neutral, 1200 rpm idle) before it hits the red...

I have verified the temperature gauge with a IR temp gun on the Tstat housing... It was only 220F at the time, and they were both on the money...

Planetcat, you're the first person I've heard of that had problems with the Modine.. but others people talk of are 2 row versions...

If this is truly just a capacity issue... then another radiator is in store... From what I've read, the aluminum ones have advantage simply because they can be made with wider tubes (weight issue)...

I also have a 5.0 Ford as a daily driver that had temp issues... I put a 1 row Modine in it (all they had), and it runs cool now. Planetcat has scared me on the Modine, especially given our very similar history.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old November 26th, 2004, 07:51
bshaw's Avatar
bshaw bshaw is offline
NAXJA Forum User
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Nerk Hia
Posts: 1,188
Re: Overheating is not solved

Something I have not seen anyone suggest yet. When you replaced your radiator did you check the back of the condensor, or do you have a/c? To make a long story short, I battled overheating problems for a month and a half during the summer. I could not figure out what the hell was going on. Replaced all kinds of shi^ and as a last resort I replaced my radiator. Well come to find out my condesor was so full of mud and other crap that is was causing my overheating problem. Month and a half of replacing parts and headaches all over a clogged condensor. After all that I disconnected my A/C and took the condensor out, and least to say I've never had a problem again with overheating. Stays at 200 and below all the time, even wheeling! Sometimes it's easy to look over the small stuff that causes big problems. Hope this might help you out!
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Stuck in Bakersfield - Overheating GSequoia OEM Tech Discussion 26 January 27th, 2010 18:25
EAGLE help OVERHEATING kcash1 OEM Tech Discussion 13 August 4th, 2004 12:16
Overheating no more... I hope macgyvr OEM Tech Discussion 2 October 30th, 2003 17:13
Overheating!! Headgasket issue? Maybe not?? scootin OEM Tech Discussion 10 October 29th, 2003 14:58
88 overheating question... vladthedog OEM Tech Discussion 2 June 1st, 2003 09:32


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 13:21.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
NAXJA and NAXJA logo's Copyright NAXJA. All content/images Copyright NAXJA 1999-2014