Your Oil Recomendation

tcv4444,

Based on your post, you have a choice to make coming up real SOON! Either prepare to leak 1 quart every 200 miles of expensive synthetic oil, or change the rear main seal, oil pan gasket, valve cover gasket and oil filter adapter o'rings with in a week of going synthetic!

Either way, your in for some expensive time consuming fun if you put synthetic in there.
 
tcv4444 said:
Haven't heard a lot of cred given to Valvoline Max Life (dino oil/synthetic blend version)
Click to expand...

Because Valvoline isn't near the best oil for a cherokee. They have little to no zddp in any of their oils, including the diesels, and I just don't think many people (including myself) think it's the best option out there. Valvoline is going for slick n slippery, and I personally feel a heavy duty higher viscocity oil is better for a high milage 4.0, and IMHO the detergents in a diesel make that an even better option.
 
Hmmmmmmmm... think it will leak that bad, huh? Ok I admit I said I was going full synthetic half 'cause I was serious and half 'cause I wondered what 'yall would say about 233k and synthetic. I agree, there could be some problems especially because I'm doing a mild flush to see if it will de gunk a sticking lifter or two. I kinda just wanted to try the full synthetic rather than the MaxLife blend for a change.
As for ZDDP, my head is spinning. :dunno: Some sources say it's imortant, some say it's not, this oil has this but the other has that, GM ZDDP additive no longer made, etc, etc. IMHO, we need a chart of ZDDP content in major brands. (I'm not suggesting that would be easy to come by) Some sort of condensed information like the junkyard upgrade 2nd thread.

If running too low ZDDP content destroys my engine, just means I'll get to do that stock 258 crankshaft stroker rebuild!! :spin1:
 
Here is a "cut and paste" from one of my previous posts:

The conversion is:

weight % = .13 (usually found on the PDS)
permille or 0/00 = 1.3 (usually found on the MSDS)
ppm or parts-per-million = 1300

Here's what I've found for the Castrol fans:

15w 40 GTX Diesel = .13 %
20w 50 High Millage = .17 %
20w 50 GTX = none
20w 50 syntec blend = .14 %
20w 50 full syntec = none
15w 40 truck blend = .065 - 1.28 %
Could not find it in ANY 5w 30 or 10w 40 weights
Also it is in none of the full synthetics.

I do tend to wonder if the oils that do not have zddp now use some different advanced ingredient that produces the SAME protection, and the whole zddp deficiency "scandal" is just another scare tactic to get us to buy yet another additive...
As long as you buy the oils that still contain it, you won't have to worry, but I think it would be impossible to blame a worn out motor on zddp when the motor in question probably has over 200k on the clock.

I found all of my castrol info on their website either in the PDS or the MSDS
 
tcv4444 said:
Hmmmmmmmm... think it will leak that bad, huh? Ok I admit I said I was going full synthetic half 'cause I was serious and half 'cause I wondered what 'yall would say about 233k and synthetic. I agree, there could be some problems especially because I'm doing a mild flush to see if it will de gunk a sticking lifter or two. I kinda just wanted to try the full synthetic rather than the MaxLife blend for a change.
As for ZDDP, my head is spinning. :dunno: Some sources say it's imortant, some say it's not, this oil has this but the other has that, GM ZDDP additive no longer made, etc, etc. IMHO, we need a chart of ZDDP content in major brands. (I'm not suggesting that would be easy to come by) Some sort of condensed information like the junkyard upgrade 2nd thread.

If running too low ZDDP content destroys my engine, just means I'll get to do that stock 258 crankshaft stroker rebuild!! :spin1:
Click to expand...

If you dont want to worry about ZDDP, switch to roller rockers and a new cam...
 
This has been quite a good thread to read up on. Currently running Castrol GTX HM 10W30 for the warmer months and GTX HM 5W30 for winter. It has the usual oil leaks around the rear main, ccv valves, oil filter adapter. It also has 212000km on it.

Would I hurt anything switching to the Rotella T 15W40 for the summer and say maybe 10W30 in the winter? Just want something that's gonna keep the engine running as long as possible.
 
xjguy98 said:
This has been quite a good thread to read up on. Currently running Castrol GTX HM 10W30 for the warmer months and GTX HM 5W30 for winter. It has the usual oil leaks around the rear main, ccv valves, oil filter adapter. It also has 212000km on it.

Would I hurt anything switching to the Rotella T 15W40 for the summer and say maybe 10W30 in the winter? Just want something that's gonna keep the engine running as long as possible.
Click to expand...
I think if anything, that would probably help! I was checking out the Rotella T 15w 40 yesterday but decided to get the Tection castrol 15w 40 Diesel instead because it is less expensive, and I believe there are benefits to running diesel oil, but the Rotella T was looking tempting. If I was not a big fan of the castrol diesel, and it was the same amount of coin, I would go that route with little hesitation.]
EDIT! After reading up on it, I am taking the Tection back and exchanging it for GTX diesel because the tection has no significant amount of zddp... ugh! They should write that crap ON THE CONTAINER! LOL

Not really OT, but are most of you guys using a pure 1 filter, or what filter are you guys using?
 
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Picked up some Rotella T 15W-40 from Wally World today. It has both SM and SL rating on it...

Anyone send some of this in for analysis for the ZDDP level?

2680390418_cdbacb5d1c.jpg


2680396888_e9f572f450.jpg
 
There are 18 pages in this thread at this point and I would like to ask a question. Has there ever been Jeep engine that spun a bearing, locked up or the engine just quit and a qualified tech determined that it was the wrong BRAND oil that was at fault. I think if the viscostiy is what the manufacture says to run, the brand is just a personal choice of the color of the can or bottle or bragging rights!
 
It probably has more to do with oil change interval, but I can hear and feel a difference with Synthetic. I read about guys liking the diesel oils, then I read how guys are pissed about bad gas milage running 15-40! You are not being as nice to your engine as you could be if you are not running an SL rated synthetic oil and a premium filter. Does it really matter for the average DD beater...don't know prolly not, but some jeeps go 250,000 and some go 500,000 before a rebuild, it depends on what you are going for and care about.
 
tinnocker30 said:
There are 18 pages in this thread at this point and I would like to ask a question. Has there ever been Jeep engine that spun a bearing, locked up or the engine just quit and a qualified tech determined that it was the wrong BRAND oil that was at fault. I think if the viscostiy is what the manufacture says to run, the brand is just a personal choice of the color of the can or bottle or bragging rights!
Click to expand...

Well, the biggest known issue is that 4.0 Jeeps have flat tappet engines, and oil companies stopped putting as much if any zddp or zinc in their oil because of government mandates. It is a known fact that flat tappet engines benefit from zddp, so the main theme is... what oils are still protecting our engines after all of the reformulations? The oil recommended by AMC or Chryco back when they were still making XJs is moot at this stage of the game. Esp with most of us at or beyond 200k miles. IMHO

I personally sleep well knowing that I'm not skimping on protecting my 4.0
 
dartworth said:
Picked up some Rotella T 15W-40 from Wally World today. It has both SM and SL rating on it...

Anyone send some of this in for analysis for the ZDDP level?

2680390418_cdbacb5d1c.jpg


2680396888_e9f572f450.jpg
Click to expand...



I just received an email back from Shell:

About 1200 ppm. Further info:
The issue around the older engines is the wear protection required by flat-tappets. Diesel engine oils like Rotella T are also rated for gasoline engines and have additional anti-wear additives at a content level that is comparable to the level that passenger car motor oils had in 2000 before the current problems with flat tappet engines began.

See the link below for more information about Rotella.
http://www.shell.com/home/Framework?siteId=rotella-en&FC2=/rotella-en/html/iwgen/press_release_2006/zzz_lhn.html&FC3=/rotella-en/html/iwgen/press_release_2006/cj-4_triple_1006.html

"Rotella w/ Triple Protection" meets API CJ-4, CI-4 PLUS, CI-4, CH-4, CG-4, CF-4 for diesel and
API SM, SL, SJ, SH for gasoline engines. A data sheet may be found at the following link: http://www.shellusserver.com/products/pdf/RotellaT(CJ-4).pdf

For more information about the API classifications, you may want to take a look the following link to API: http://www.api.org/certifications/engineoil/categories/upload/EngineOilGuide2006.pdf
If you have any additional questions, please call us at 800-231-6950. Thank you for your interest in Shell products.

Thanks for your email!

Regards,

Keith Perry
Technical Information Center

Customer Service: (800) 840-5737
Technical Support: (800) 231-6950
 
MCartwright said:
It probably has more to do with oil change interval, but I can hear and feel a difference with Synthetic. I read about guys liking the diesel oils, then I read how guys are pissed about bad gas milage running 15-40! You are not being as nice to your engine as you could be if you are not running an SL rated synthetic oil and a premium filter. Does it really matter for the average DD beater...don't know prolly not, but some jeeps go 250,000 and some go 500,000 before a rebuild, it depends on what you are going for and care about.
Click to expand...

I wont say that's garbage, but I will say that I hope the synthetic you are using has the same heavy duty anti wear properties as my 15w 40 diesel, because I don't care how they market it, the synthetic oils are thinner, and it would be a weaker wall of protection between my older working parts. would they well lubricated, sure, but a 20 year old 4.0 was NOT made to run synth PERIOD!!! besides, my oil pressure is much better, and my truck runs better with thicker oil.
 
154,000, 92 xj, and I have put 10,000 of that on it. I do not know what the previous owner ran in it, but i have been running the Walmart brand of the Valvoline HM 75,000 (red bottle) 10w40, at least I was led to belive it was Havoline?
I also have been using their Oil Filter.
How does that oil rate? How does their oil filter rate?
 
so looking at all the data and re-reading the entire thread.....working midnights with nothing to do.....I've come up with sort of a list of all the SL rated oils I could find/obtain up here:

Rotella T Triple Protection (SM I know but someone said it's kinda in between)
Rotella T Multigrade
Castrol Tection HD
Castrol GTX Diesel
Mobil 1 HM
Valvoline All Fleet Plus
Quaker State Universal HDX
Pennzoil Long Life

Most of these come in 15W-40 and 10W-30. My question now is which is the most suitable brand and will I be ok running 15W40 in the summer then switching to 10W30 in the winter or should I switch to 5W40 in the winter?
 
SL is an API (American Petroleum Institute) designation for a service class of oil (S originates from "spark"...you'll see diesel engine oils classified as "C", originating from "compression"). Every 2 years, oil service classes are updated, so thats why you have SM, SL, SJ, SH...etc. I'm guessing 2009 will bring the SN class of oil (I think SM is 2007). (Source - my friend Wiki)

SJ is ideal, if you can still find it. It relates to how much ZDDP is in the oil.
 
xjguy98 said:
so looking at all the data and re-reading the entire thread.....working midnights with nothing to do.....I've come up with sort of a list of all the SL rated oils I could find/obtain up here:

Rotella T Triple Protection (SM I know but someone said it's kinda in between)
Rotella T Multigrade
Castrol Tection HD
Castrol GTX Diesel
Mobil 1 HM
Valvoline All Fleet Plus
Quaker State Universal HDX
Pennzoil Long Life

Most of these come in 15W-40 and 10W-30. My question now is which is the most suitable brand and will I be ok running 15W40 in the summer then switching to 10W30 in the winter or should I switch to 5W40 in the winter?
Click to expand...

be careful, the SL/SM rating does NOT mean it contains adequate zddp levels. the castrol tection for example, has no reportable levels of zddp. the best way to know your covered is to either find the msds of the oil online, or email the manufacturer and ask. that way you know for sure that the blood in your truck is not enemic. you want around 1200 ppm, or .12% of zddp.
 
The simple answer is that if the bottle has API SM listed anywhere on the label it is probably no good for our engines. IF the SM is no where on the label, and SL is on the label, or CH is on the label if it is diesel oil, then you may be OK.

If it does not have SL, or CJ, but has CH on the label and is a diesel oil it is probably the best you can buy as far as zddp content is concerned.
 
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