Y-linked long arms?

Deadman 94 xj said:
I guess it depends on how you look at it. Bend the arms, weaken the outer wall of the arm due to the bend, and have great clearance. Or, you run arms capable of taking abuse and don't worry so much about the clearance. I can see benefits to both.

I know you've been in the game long enough to know how well clayton's arms hold up...
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If you look, you'll see that the upper arm mounts are at the bend, and so act as a gusset, so no potential weakness there........not an issue, at all.

Yes, I've been around a long time, and if you read around you'll find that I have never been a fan of the Clayton LA kit because of the ground clearance. I could care less how they hold up. Because of ground clearance, I'm not a fan of long arms in general, except for the TnT kit which is high clearance, and some of the nicely done custom fabbed setups.

I have a principal that I won't to modifications that decrease performance in one way to gain performance in another way......that is a waste to me. So, based on that principal I won't install long arms or any other modification that decreases ground clearance when other options are available. Clayton is a good guy, and makes good stuff, but his long arm kits are much more popular in the east, you hardly see them in the west where we crawl so much and ground clearance is king.

Yep, we all have opinions, and I'll try to back mine up with reason. :)
 
Goatman said:
Some people on this site who have made true 3 links and used the 10mm bolt have broken bolts, and that stock upper bushing isn't up to the forces of a single upper arm. When recommending that folks build a true 3 link, one of the qualifying conditions is that none of the stock mounts and bushings be used.
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I understand not using the stock upper bushing, and that the passenger side upper mount needs reinforcement, but is the cast upper mount really too weak? Do people break those?
 
I've run my TnT Y-link setup for over 2 years, driven daily and regularly wheeled on the weekends. Zero bushing failures, bent arms or any other gobble-de-gook.

I've never hit the LCA's on boulders or ledges. It's a well-engineered setup for the wheeling I do. If you want better angles or the geometry of a 3 link or triagulated 4-link, feel free to chop up your rig and get after it.

For those of us that run dual-purpose rigs, the Y-link setup works well.
 
Deadman 94 xj said:
That's funny, I thought I did back mine up with reason. :)

Isn't TnT a NAXJA supporter...
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Hey, we'd be having the same conversation around the campfire while laughing and drinking beer. :cheers:


I don't keep track of who is a NAXJA sponsor or vendor, but nice try. :)

I like what I like, and for reasons that I'm happy to discuss. I did, however, just buy an XJ that has TnT Y links on it. Has nothing to do with my comments, and I don't even have the XJ yet. I was going to build a trussed D30 with raised control arm axle mounts, upper and lower, and RE short arms, which I'm very interested to build and try.......similar to my previous XJ's 3 link. But, I ran across this XJ with the TnT stuff, and since I've always thought it was a decent product, I guess I'll give it a try.
 
Never mind... its late and I'm not reading right.

As for the Y-link, I've got nothing but good experience with it. Like Goatman, I feel the clearance this kit affords is what makes it better than the other off-the-shelf long-arm kits in my opinion.
 
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Goatman said:
Well, I didn't even know about Iron Rock, but it looks like they have what you are describing, and they call it an Iron Y.

TnT Customs offers a Y Link option for their lift kits, and have for quite some time. This is what I was referring to, since the OP asked about Y link arms and that's what TnT calls them.

http://tntcustoms.com/images/view.aspx?productId=148&index=1



I don't have a problem with what Iron Rock is doing, as long as that adjustable UCA mount is strong enough, and as long as they don't use the stock rubber UCA bushing and 10mm bolt. Oh............I just read from their website and they do use the stock rubber UCA axle bushing and 10mm bolt. I would never recommend that lift kit for that reason. Some people on this site who have made true 3 links and used the 10mm bolt have broken bolts, and that stock upper bushing isn't up to the forces of a single upper arm. When recommending that folks build a true 3 link, one of the qualifying conditions is that none of the stock mounts and bushings be used.
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Well the TNT has a design with inherent binding. One side goes up, the other goes down, and each arm twists the axle a different way. That seems much worse than using a single upper mount.
 
No hard feelings Goatman. I respect what you do and have done for the sport. My opinion of the TnT kit, like somebody said, is theoretical, nothing more. It's a good kit that holds up well.

I didn't mean to turn this into one kit VS' another.
 
winkosmosis said:
Well the TNT has a design with inherent binding. One side goes up, the other goes down, and each arm twists the axle a different way. That seems much worse than using a single upper mount.
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True, but does the potential bind impede your vehicles ability to articulate or cause premature bushing failure?

Not my experience.
 
I wish Ballistic fab would release their radius arm kit so I could make a damn decision. I love the way vetteboy79 has his 3 link setup, but I just don't think I'll have the fab skill anytime soon to pull something like that off. I'll just have to settle for TnT's truss and y-link most likely.

One thing I've noticed with the TnT kit is the new style of belly pan is mounted pretty low compared to the old one. I have their belly pan without the y-link and it is almost flat under the framerails. The new style looks to sit almost 2 inchs below the rails. Is this true?

Eric and XJEEPER, have you had any problems with the unloading on steep hills? Eric, do your limit straps prevent this? I've driven up some steep stuff at RC and I just don't want to have to worry about my suspension wanting to flip me over.
 
I know you asked for Eric's and XJEEPER's opinon but I'm going to give you mine anyway, since everyone knows how "vocal" I am on the subject.

You won't have to worry about your suspension wanting to flip you over. When you get to that point of a climb, you'll have very little weight on the front tires and it won't matter what long arm suspension you're running. This is why guys run suckdown winches. Whether you have a true 3-link, 4-link, or radius-long arm setup, you are going to experience some unloading. YES the upper arm on a true 3-4 link minimizes this, but it is still a factor.
A good Mid-arm suspension would be better for climbing the stuff you're talking about.

^^^That's my opinion on the steep stuff, ledges, ect.

As far as "skinny pedal" unloading, a proper rear suspension goes a long way. A good anti-squat ratio, minimal spring wrap, and a stiffer rear suspension will go a long way.

A lot of guys take this stuff way too far on the internet, IMO. They're just control arms for pete sake. People forget that it's not how many poser flex shots you can post up. It's about TRACTION :) Yes the the radius arm setup binds, but how far are you flexing it when this happens? Is there even weight on the tire at this point? If not, than your "flex" is pointless anyway because you still have no traction.

All just my opinion.
 
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sunburned said:
Eric and XJEEPER, have you had any problems with the unloading on steep hills? Eric, do your limit straps prevent this? I've driven up some steep stuff at RC and I just don't want to have to worry about my suspension wanting to flip me over.
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The unloading is not much of an issue at all unless you are doing something incredibly steep, in which case you won't have much traction anyway like Deadman suggested. To give you an idea, I ran all week at Moab for the 25th anniversary and hit a lot of very steep ledges and climbs. Never once was unloading a problem.

My limit straps are there mainly to keep the shocks from doing the same job, not to prevent unloading.
 
Nothing is perfect, and almost anything that has some thought put into works reasonably well. As an example, myself, Paul S., Dave Taylor, and Farmer Matt all have XJ rock buggies. Paul and I have front 3 link mid-arms, Dave has an RE style radius arm long arm, and Matt has a long arm radius arm with a hard link upper arm on just one side (like the Iron Rock Y). We all go the same places. All the rigs climb really well, and you might be able to make a case that Paul's and my mid-arms climb just a touch better, but when you use a suck down winch in front it really doesn't matter.

For the 10-12" of front travel you normally get in an XJ any binding isn't really much of an issue, except the possibility of wearing bushings out a little faster. Which brings me back to my point that ground clearance is by far the leading design issue. :D
 
XJEEPER said:
I've run my TnT Y-link setup for over 2 years, driven daily and regularly wheeled on the weekends. Zero bushing failures, bent arms or any other gobble-de-gook.

I've never hit the LCA's on boulders or ledges. It's a well-engineered setup for the wheeling I do. If you want better angles or the geometry of a 3 link or triangulated 4-link, feel free to chop up your rig and get after it.

For those of us that run dual-purpose rigs, the Y-link setup works well.
Click to expand...

X2 I'm very happy with my TNT kit but in hindsight it's expensive.

Honestly it may have been a better compromise for me to run a short arm kit and spend the extra cash on very nice shocks.
 
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