Where to buy coil overs???

[silverslk]

Tony is right to a point. I have been Bilstein before anyone of us (me, Tony or Jim) knew anyone over there or knew what they would do to help people. Hell, I was Bilstein when Tony bought brand new Fox's for his XJ (Which I clowned him for). haha

As for Bilstein, I have seen Joel offer to help tune other guys shocks (not Bilstein) on other boards and I am pretty sure King or SAW would not help Tony with his Bilsteins.

 

[tcm glx]

Tony is right to a point. I have been Bilstein before anyone of us (me, Tony or Jim) knew anyone over there or knew what they would do to help people. Hell, I was Bilstein when Tony bought brand new Fox's for his XJ (Which I clowned him for). haha

As for Bilstein, I have seen Joel offer to help tune other guys shocks (not Bilstein) on other boards and I am pretty sure King or SAW would not help Tony with his Bilsteins.

Very true on all counts!

 

[ratboy93]

well as of 1700 i dont think the finned resivoir is legal? im almost positive you cant have any kind of heat exhanger on your shocks

 

[tcm glx]

well as of 1700 i dont think the finned resivoir is legal? im almost positive you cant have any kind of heat exhanger on your shocks

Rules dont say you can not hav a finned resi either........ :cheers:

 

[Skullver]

Thanks Tony, I remember seeing those pics somewhere. I still am not understanding this "valve", the resi is there to separate the tiny bit of oil in the res, and the nitrogen which mainly makes up the volume of the res. and the dividing piston moves slightly to make up for the displaced fluid(pressure) from the piston compressing(just laying it out for myself, I'm sure you already know this). So on a big hit you would see a big pressure spike in the res, but I don't see how a valve could open/close in the res itself and do anything? Does it close off the res itself upon a big hit? does it "meter" the oil flow into the res depending on shaft velocity therefore flow rate of oil into the res? Would love to hear some more details, or better yet, see what this valve looks like and where it is!! cool looking little radiator and I like the finned reservoirs, I'm sure they help!

 

[tcm glx]

Thanks Tony, I remember seeing those pics somewhere. I still am not understanding this "valve", the resi is there to separate the tiny bit of oil in the res, and the nitrogen which mainly makes up the volume of the res. and the dividing piston moves slightly to make up for the displaced fluid(pressure) from the piston compressing(just laying it out for myself, I'm sure you already know this). So on a big hit you would see a big pressure spike in the res, but I don't see how a valve could open/close in the res itself and do anything? Does it close off the res itself upon a big hit? does it "meter" the oil flow into the res depending on shaft velocity therefore flow rate of oil into the res? Would love to hear some more details, or better yet, see what this valve looks like and where it is!! cool looking little radiator and I like the finned reservoirs, I'm sure they help!

Hey Chris,
That is the extent of my knowledge of it..... but my understanding is exactly what you explained.. the valve closes off the fluid to the resi for a quick instance on a big hit.... as for showing you one... well, I will leave that up to the big boys at Bilstein to share.

 

[tcm glx]

One other comment to add guys, please know that I am sure Andy, Jim or myslef aren't knocking Fox, King, or SAW. Its just that we have all personally experienced first hand a level of support from the guys at Bilstein that is above stanard in my opinion....

Granted, people would not be winning races over and over again if Fox did not make a quality product. Same goes for the others. My big thing has been, I have never seen one of those companies put people on the boards that say:
1) I will help tune for you, free of charge, regardless of shock
2) Let me try some new stuff on your daily driven $3k rig
3) Lets try this out, and if it doesnt work, we can revalve differently for free
4) And this is the best one....... Come over to our trailer, I have an ice cold beer waiting for you all!!


tony

 

[chris_amrein]

I just saw King has released a 4.5" OD body seven (!) bypass tube Pure Race shock. I realize this has little to do with where to buy coil overs or probably even Jeepspeeds but there was discussions about biggest/baddest and new technology and it looks like King is now the biggest shock out there.

For the record I've never owned Kings or have affiliation with them however I've ridden in a few cars with them on.

 

[Goatman]

Lot's of good info here. You guys make a good point about Bilstein as a company, and they may be the best and most innovative company, but like has also been said for the average guy buying a coilover all the major brands use the exact same technology. I've become partial to Kings, they are very high quality, and you can run out to Barstow on Wed during race season and get them tuned for free. For someone in SoCal that can take a Wed off and go out there, that is a big deal. Hell, it can be fun just to be out there on Wed. We've been out in the rock buggy along with TT's, race buggies of various classes, trucks of various classes, sand buggies, and Jeeps.

 

[Goatman]

Thanks Tony, I remember seeing those pics somewhere. I still am not understanding this "valve", the resi is there to separate the tiny bit of oil in the res, and the nitrogen which mainly makes up the volume of the res. and the dividing piston moves slightly to make up for the displaced fluid(pressure) from the piston compressing(just laying it out for myself, I'm sure you already know this). So on a big hit you would see a big pressure spike in the res, but I don't see how a valve could open/close in the res itself and do anything? Does it close off the res itself upon a big hit? does it "meter" the oil flow into the res depending on shaft velocity therefore flow rate of oil into the res? Would love to hear some more details, or better yet, see what this valve looks like and where it is!! cool looking little radiator and I like the finned reservoirs, I'm sure they help!

I can see a valve like this helping, that's interesting. The flow of fluid would be the amount displaced by the shock shaft, plus a sort of pressure wave produced by the fast piston movement. Plenty of pressure sensitive applications where the valve opens under more pressure, but interesting that it closes under more pressure or velocity.

 

[tcm glx]

I can see a valve like this helping, that's interesting. The flow of fluid would be the amount displaced by the shock shaft, plus a sort of pressure wave produced by the fast piston movement. Plenty of pressure sensitive applications where the valve opens under more pressure, but interesting that it closes under more pressure or velocity.

So let me preface this by once again stating I am no genius, and could not tune a shock on my own for the life of me (probably why I am so pleased to have some support from Bilstein).

The valving was added to my bronco at the New Years Dash in Ocotillo, and the interesting thing was we did a few runs before and after..... and the main difference over a section approxiamtely 3 miles long that we consistenly ran after every change we made was the moment we added the valve (called the ACV), the Bronco's overall behavior change. On any fairly large to really large whoops or g outs, the front end seemed to stay a little higher, and pop over instead of digging into the whole, which in turn made for a much much better ride, overall, when we started to when we finished, I was running somewhere around 8-10 MPH faster on that little section...... Jim rode in the bronco as we did it and I thnk he can attest, the results re great!

 

[cal]

I can say that as just a general consumer, the service Bilstein has offered me in the past has been amazing. I sent a pair of messed up 7100's in for a rebuild, they came back with new shafts, all new internals, new rod ends, for $60.. they even included a new set of XJ bumpstops and a cute little note advising I should start using them.

..that and the R&D guys at Bilstein are Xj fan's, so how can you go wrong?


..all of that said, I bought SAW coilovers.

 

[vetteboy]

I haven't seen Radflo mentioned...they do quality work as well, and have been on nearly all the winning Ultra4 cars this year.

I posted this elsewhere, but this was my experience with the shock guys at KOH this year:

Joel at Bilstein gave a (free!) good presentation on shock tuning basics and answered a bunch of questions he didn't have to, almost to the point where it felt like he was giving away some secrets. I then got to spend a half hour or so with him and BroncoLou going over some more tuning stuff, and learned a bunch more.

Glenn at Radflo took the time to 2nd-day-air me an airbump after I blew one up (my fault, the bump dropped out and broke the schrader valve off) so I could finish getting my junk ready for the 5,000-mile round-trip haul. Even though I don't have Radflo shocks, just two of their bumps, he still answered a bunch of questions I had and gave me some help in setting them up to make the most use out of the travel I have. Cool guy.

Spent well over an hour talking to Chris and JD at FOA about their products (which I now have 4 of). The valving he set me up with out of the box worked damn well IMO and he sent me out (also 2nd-day-air) some extra misalignment spacers for free after I lost one and had another that was the wrong width. Both guys definitely care about the product and support.

Didn't really talk to King and Swayaway too much, just in passing in the vendor tent, but they were still very helpful in just answering some questions about how their stuff works and new products coming out.

I'm sure these stories could come from any number of average joe wheelers that were out there. I thought it was pretty awesome all around that these guys will take the time to help as much as they do. Like I said, I've got 4 FOA's on my rig now and I'm extremely happy with 'em, but I wouldn't hesitate at all to trust Bilstein or Radflo in getting my junk running right as well.

As far as FOA goes - mine worked fine right outta the box. To say that they can't or won't is misleading. I also did a ton of research and knew what I wanted as a baseline, and Chris came up with the same thing I did after giving him my rig specs. Could they be better? Probably...but once you start going that route, you're not going to find any manufacturer who will set up every shock dead-nuts perfect on the first try.

Jeepspeed or any spec class is different...when you have a group of pretty much the same rigs, it becomes much easier to have an effective baseline from the start.

 

[dirtbagXJ2103]

if i had the money i'd run them all but i dont, i live near fox and bilstien. i currently have fox and bilstien shocks on my jeep. if i lived by king i'd be running those. they all work this isnt class one its jeepspeed/DD go with whatever is easy or on sale..

 

[cal]

if i had the money i'd run them all but i dont, i live near fox and bilstien. i currently have fox and bilstien shocks on my jeep. if i lived by king i'd be running those. they all work this isnt class one its jeepspeed/DD go with whatever is easy or on sale..

... you buy by geography? i suppose that's one way to build..

 

[dirtbagXJ2103]

yeah i live near off-road warehouse they sell king/fox/bilstien, bilstiens factory is down the road and orw does fox in house. and i scored on some used fox shox if they were kings i'd still buy them. but i do like the little bypass adjusters on jims, so easy. and fox and bilstien both do free first revalve

 

[RandomThoughtsRace]

well as of 1700 i dont think the finned resivoir is legal? im almost positive you cant have any kind of heat exhanger on your shocks

The heat sink reservoir end cap is legal for jeepspeed.

The heat sink also anchors the Bilstein patented Anti Cavitation Valve (ACV) on some applications and is just a heat sink on others. The heat sink is available on 9100's and can also retrofit onto most older 9100's.

 

[crazyjim]

The heat sink reservoir end cap is legal for jeepspeed.

The heat sink also anchors the Bilstein patented Anti Cavitation Valve (ACV) on some applications and is just a heat sink on others. The heat sink is available on 9100's and can also retrofit onto most older 9100's.

Woo! There's the man of the hour!

 

[RandomThoughtsRace]

Thanks Tony, I remember seeing those pics somewhere. I still am not understanding this "valve", the resi is there to separate the tiny bit of oil in the res, and the nitrogen which mainly makes up the volume of the res. and the dividing piston moves slightly to make up for the displaced fluid(pressure) from the piston compressing(just laying it out for myself, I'm sure you already know this). So on a big hit you would see a big pressure spike in the res, but I don't see how a valve could open/close in the res itself and do anything? Does it close off the res itself upon a big hit? does it "meter" the oil flow into the res depending on shaft velocity therefore flow rate of oil into the res? Would love to hear some more details, or better yet, see what this valve looks like and where it is!! cool looking little radiator and I like the finned reservoirs, I'm sure they help!

Not sure how this thread went from where can I buy coilovers to "my shock is better than yours" but along the way someone wanted to know about the Bilstein ACV. I am not here to make claims of whose ir bigger or better rather just here to answer a question and leave the proof to the end users.

The basic concept is that a top hose coilover loses stability at higher compression forces unless there is a line restrictor or sifficient gas pressure to maintain stability. So even though the compression valve stack is setup to deliver increased damping (teired valve stack) this increased damping will only occur with sufficient counter pressure. When the compression force overcomes the gas pressure then instead of the oil going through the piston it will be shoved into the reservoir. If a greater amount of oil than the shaft displacement goes into the reservoir there will be cavitation. The ACV works in time against the main compression valve stack so as forces increase the coilover is actually able to engage the high speed valving already present. Moving the reservoir port to the bottom of the shock can gain this compression effect but it also destabalizes the rebound and since a coilover has a spring wound around it porting from the bottom is not realistic. Basically the ACV allows a coilover to gain the stability of a botom hose without sacrificing rebound stability.

There are some other uses, configurations, and effects related to the ACV but thats a story for another day.

 

[cracker]

I have had the opposite experience than what Cal has had and I have lost serious respect for Bilstein.

Great product but I have left three messages and for them and never got a call back nor could I get anyone to talk to me on the phone just for some simple questions.

I think I am with Richard and suggest going the King route.