**UPDATED** HHO GAS....

[lrainman]

so you're just dumping water in there and connecting those power leads to the battery?

Inside the HHO unit is distilled water and baking soda, mixed at a ratio of 1 qaurt water to 1 tablespoon baking soda. I will fill the XJ up again Thursday morning for more information on mileage. I will post all my results here good or bad.

 

[beakie]

thats it thats all, from what I have seen of my buddies.
vac line to the intake, power leads to switchable relay to batt. and your off. he can turn it on/off as he desires.
only thing of concern is making sure water is not sucked up while sloshing around inside the cannister. so building a kind of mini snorkel inside, or something that shields the vac hose should be considered.

 

[lawsoncl]

My God, somebody actually read what I said! :shocked:I am in shock, LOL!

It happens occasionally.

I am curious as to what your take is on on the idea that very small amounts of it can significantly change the burn rate enough to boost the engine efficiency while it still burns 99% gasoline, with maybe 1% browns gas (which might also have some water vapor in it!!!)

I am seriously thinking of digging up a copy of the complete, 1978 research paper but it may be hard to get now.

I'd love to see that research paper. I'd be curious how applicable it would be to a modern fuel injected setup, guessing that it was done using a carb'd vehicle?

Its early and haven't had any coffe yet, but here are a few thougth off the top of my head. I believe yuo can improve the vaporization and burning of the existing gas by adding another component like hydrogen or HHO might accomplish. Modern multiheaded injectors do a decent job of atomizing the fuel versus older carbs which kind of dribbled the gas in, so I'm not sure how much efficiency there is to gain in that area. You can't be wasting too much fuel in the exhaust or you'd have a red hot cat converter (wait, it does get pretty hot) and high CO numbers.

Adding something that just plain increases the cylinder pressure would improve efficiency - kind of artificially raising the compression ratio. Water or a non-combustible gas that expands better than the gas/air mixture would increase the cylinder pressure. If your engine computer is adjusting timing for knock, adding water vapor or hydrogen to the mix may supress knock and allow the engien computer to increase the timing advance.

 

[Ecomike]

It happens occasionally.



I'd love to see that research paper. I'd be curious how applicable it would be to a modern fuel injected setup, guessing that it was done using a carb'd vehicle?

Its early and haven't had any coffe yet, but here are a few thougth off the top of my head. I believe yuo can improve the vaporization and burning of the existing gas by adding another component like hydrogen or HHO might accomplish. Modern multiheaded injectors do a decent job of atomizing the fuel versus older carbs which kind of dribbled the gas in, so I'm not sure how much efficiency there is to gain in that area. You can't be wasting too much fuel in the exhaust or you'd have a red hot cat converter (wait, it does get pretty hot) and high CO numbers.

Adding something that just plain increases the cylinder pressure would improve efficiency - kind of artificially raising the compression ratio. Water or a non-combustible gas that expands better than the gas/air mixture would increase the cylinder pressure. If your engine computer is adjusting timing for knock, adding water vapor or hydrogen to the mix may supress knock and allow the engien computer to increase the timing advance.

I will try to find or buy a pdf copy, or go to Rice University library and dig it up. If water vapor (steam) is part of why it works, that could be done more efficiently by using exhaust heat to produce the steam. We know that some of the fuel turns to black carbon, just look at all the crap in the intake manifolds from EGR recerculation in the renix engines. That carbon fouls the valves, pistons, spark plugs, etc, and gets burned off in the Cat converter when it comes loose, but if it was burned in the engine first that would improve efficiency some. I agree that adding some free steam to the intake (like from the reuse of the exhaust heat) would improve output and it would keep the engine cleaner which would also improve output by reducing misfires. 5-90 and I have discussed that. Just look at how clean a cylinder gets if had a head gasket leak just before being rebuilt.

I also have some high tech experience with hazardous waste combustion using what is called super critical (fluid) water! Bad stuff that is resistant to burning or that won't burn completely and cleanly, like PCBs, has been completely burned by introducing it to a super critical water reactor where the water reachs the super critical state at about 450 F and about 500 PSI. Those temperatures and pressures are easily reached during combustion in an engine, so there is a basis for just adding some steam to the A/F mix improving the combustion and the power / torque output. At those pressures and temperatures a lot of the water (steam) disasociates into single free radical hydrogen atoms and OH hydroxyl free radicals which help accelerate the more rapid, more complete burn of the gasoline. So it may not be all just HHO gas these recent guys are using to get better mileage.

I have asked Irainman to drive his tell it is good and hot, and then to pull the HHO generator outlet hose to see if any visable steam is coming out.

 

[Ecomike]

thats it thats all, from what I have seen of my buddies.
vac line to the intake, power leads to switchable relay to batt. and your off. he can turn it on/off as he desires.
only thing of concern is making sure water is not sucked up while sloshing around inside the cannister. so building a kind of mini snorkel inside, or something that shields the vac hose should be considered.

Agreed, definately needs to have a demister, baffles,... to knock down any splashing, sloshing water. That should be easy to do.

 

[jeepman121]

thermodynamics has NOTHING to do with this theory !!!!Only if you were trying to run the car on hho alone would you be correct!! were talking about 7-10 more mpg not a perpetual motion machine. all we are doing is boosting the octane rating and increasing the efficency of the burn

 

[lrainman]

Here is a little bit of information, until I do the steam test. With the unit running and the 3/8 fuel line taken off the intake and put into a coffee can of water it produces only 1.5 bubbles per second. I was able to test one similar to mine today and it is drawing 9.8 amps, after a 30 mile drive. Am I on the right track thinking that it will draw more amps the hotter that it gets?

 

[lrainman]

One more thing, Ecomike asked what all vehicles these are installed on so here is a list.
My 95 Cherokee
99 Tacoma 4x4 with 4 cylinder
87 Nissan 2 wheel drive with 4 cylinder
91 F150 4x4 with 300 6
2001 GMC 1500 4x4 with 5.3L V8
2006 Ford Ranger 4x4 with 4.0L V6
1978 F150 2 wheel drive with 300 6
1996 Dodge 3500 4x4 with 5.9L cummins deisel
2007 Jeep Wrangler 4x4 with V6

I know all of the owners and have helped build some of these units so I will find out about any problems and mileage gains.

 

[goodburbon]

thermodynamics has NOTHING to do with this theory !!!!Only if you were trying to run the car on hho alone would you be correct!! were talking about 7-10 more mpg not a perpetual motion machine. all we are doing is boosting the octane rating and increasing the efficency of the burn

Why would you PM me this drivel? I read it in the thread. I know what your opinion is.

BTW raising octane lowers the explosive nature of fuel...

 

[goodburbon]

Oh and do me a favor, with the leads disconnected, read the resistance between the posts.

 

[ChrisTX]

One more thing, Ecomike asked what all vehicles these are installed on so here is a list.
My 95 Cherokee
99 Tacoma 4x4 with 4 cylinder
87 Nissan 2 wheel drive with 4 cylinder
91 F150 4x4 with 300 6
2001 GMC 1500 4x4 with 5.3L V8
2006 Ford Ranger 4x4 with 4.0L V6
1978 F150 2 wheel drive with 300 6
1996 Dodge 3500 4x4 with 5.9L cummins deisel
2007 Jeep Wrangler 4x4 with V6

I know all of the owners and have helped build some of these units so I will find out about any problems and mileage gains.

What did you have to do on the '01 GMC? My brother and I are installing one on my Wrangler, and on his '99 GMC Z71. If it works on my Wrangler, I'm going to put one on my XJ as well. We both ordered the MAP sensor enhancer to adjust the a/f mixture. I will have both of the units completed this evening, and if the sensor enhancers come in before the weekend, we'll be putting them in this weekend. I think mine should be pretty straight forward, but I'm not familiar with how his is going to go.

I built the water4gas design, but I think I'm going to try the hotsabi design, or maybe a smack booster if this works like I hope it will.

 

[TunaSoda]

BTW raising octane lowers the explosive nature of fuel...

Correct

 

[lrainman]

What did you have to do on the '01 GMC? My brother and I are installing one on my Wrangler, and on his '99 GMC Z71. If it works on my Wrangler, I'm going to put one on my XJ as well. We both ordered the MAP sensor enhancer to adjust the a/f mixture. I will have both of the units completed this evening, and if the sensor enhancers come in before the weekend, we'll be putting them in this weekend. I think mine should be pretty straight forward, but I'm not familiar with how his is going to go.

So far there have been no changes made on the 01 GMC, it has only been on a week though. This unit is pretty small so that the owner could get a starting point, and work up from there. He knows that he could have O2 sensor issues and need a MAP adjuster. I will post on here if he does.

 

[outlander]

:link2:

 

[bowzone_mikey]

If I have a HHO molecule .

You would have a Molecule of water ... other wise known as H2O:attom:

 

[goodburbon]

that could be mistaken for 20 hydrogen atoms.


welcome to the discussion on fuels and combustion that thermodynamics has absoluetly nothing to do with. Good luck trying to use silly things like laws of physics, ohms law, and general chemistry to analyze a theory.

 

[GSequoia]

that could be mistaken for 20 hydrogen atoms.


welcome to the discussion on fuels and combustion that thermodynamics has absoluetly nothing to do with. Good luck trying to use silly things like laws of physics, ohms law, and general chemistry to analyze a theory.

No no no, this is about HHO so obviously realscience doesn't have anything to do with it, otherwise the discussion would be about H20!

 

[swbooking]

that could be mistaken for 20 hydrogen atoms.


welcome to the discussion on fuels and combustion that thermodynamics has absoluetly nothing to do with. Good luck trying to use silly things like laws of physics, ohms law, and general chemistry to analyze a theory.

AHAHAHAH best part of the whole thread...

 

[ChrisTX]

Just finished mine, and the MAP sensor enhancer came in, so I'll have mine installed this weekend.

Here's the finished product.

And the road to the finished product.

I think if this one works, I'm going to replace it with a smack booster. This one will be easier to start with since I can see it actually working.

 

[lrainman]

Just finished mine, and the MAP sensor enhancer came in, so I'll have mine installed this weekend.

Here's the finished product.

And the road to the finished product.

I think if this one works, I'm going to replace it with a smack booster. This one will be easier to start with since I can see it actually working.

Please keep me in PM or by this thread posted on your result. I am curious to hear from other people if it works for them as well.
And one more thing for all of you that obviously want to argue the fact that it can't work, go find another thread to talk on. There is only a thousand other topics going on so have a good time somewhere else. And trust me one way or another, good or bad I will keep posting results from my XJ so that other people will know if it works.