the woods buggies

[87manche]

You got that right it was a hell of a choice of hills. You willie and tim did a great job. The park officials were very un professional and the 4x4 guys that rode there were not to pleasant. I never once felt like we were welcome there. Im not in any way knocking the even, it was prolly the best hill selection yet. As far as our group(woodsbuugy.com), you couldnt ask for a better group of people.

obviously have rose tinted glasses.

I would love to sign up at their website and illustrate that the overloaded 4 wheeler I saw tip over with 3 people on it into Tim's Jeep was in their group.

or how I didn't get a decent nights sleep all weekend because of horns/VW motors at 2:30 in the morning.

or the trash that Flex picked up from the middle fork playground after they packed up.

or "the hulk" riding around doing burn outs in the grass with sand paddles an showering peoples rigs with rocks.

I sincerely hope that they do not make it back next year, and if they do, we need to have a serious talk with Stephen about how the campground is going to keep their late night antics in check.

otherwise, I will make the suggestion right now that we move to the Evart's campground, it's far cheaper anyway.

 

[Cottontail]

Where did that quote come from Nate? Is that from the www. woodsbuggy.com website?

 

[FlexdXJ]

Yeah we weren't too pleasant when they revved their engines at all hours of the night, drove back and forth through the campground slinging rocks and leaving the trails a giant mess. I talked with Steven and told hom we picked up 3 bags of trash and told him they were being stupid at all hours of the night. I'm sure not all of them were like that but that was enough for me to know why they aren't allowed in most of the OHV parks in Indiana.

 

[bigalpha]

I wasn't even there and that's lame.

 

[Cottontail]

I just registered on woodsbuggys.com.

I'm fixing to start a post when my registration comes through my e-mail.

 

[BRIANHO13]

I know they were getting a little pissy when I was trying to lead a group through the staging area, they had every single trail head blocked........

EVARTS is not nearly as nice as putney.

 

[ChiXJeff]

Don't be too surprised if/when you get banned over there for being a troll.

Likewise, trolling won't be tolerated here either. Discussion is one thing, stirring the pot with a canoe paddle is something else.

 

[PacificEd]

Be careful about posting in any threads you post over there. I'm sure they will reciprocate.

 

[UNCC_99XJ]

Yeah we weren't too pleasant when they revved their engines at all hours of the night, drove back and forth through the campground slinging rocks and leaving the trails a giant mess. I talked with Steven and told hom we picked up 3 bags of trash and told him they were being stupid at all hours of the night. I'm sure not all of them were like that but that was enough for me to know why they aren't allowed in most of the OHV parks in Indiana.

No kidding. Not to mention they had damn near every square inch of Middle Fork blocked on Saturday because they thought it'd be great to chose that spot as their assembley point...rather than say, the campground like we did, where there's tons more room and it's not an intersection of 4 different trails.

 

[PacificEd]

Read up on their ethics and trail treatment on the woodsbuggies site before you post. Then ask them how they feel about drinking, revving motors, blasting dust and rocks, etc. I think this could lead to a good dicussion about the way they treat the trails and the people they are around.

Also remember that we may have been around the "bad apples" and many of them may have not approved of their conduct.

 

[shortxjdoug]

i wrote a letter to Stephen at the campground and i suggest everyone here do the same, pissing off the woodsbuggy group may be fun but a well worded complaint may lead to some more monitoring for those bunch of rednecks in the future.... heres mine if you want to read it.

his email is [email protected]

Stephen,
I was part of the naxja group staying at the campground this past weekend and i have many complaints about how the woodsbuggy group treated us and the trail system. First they blatantly ignored campground quiet time policy on a regular basis. Our group may be a little loud around a campfire at times but we were conscious of neighbors requests and made sure engines stayed off if at all possible past 11. Many nights both me and my girlfriend were awakened by a rail buggy using healthy amounts of throttle ON THE CAMPGROUND PATH. Not only is this a nuisance but this is also a huge safety issue for me as there were pets and many younger children present in our group. Also this hefty use of throttle resulted in spraying of gravel across our tow vehicles, and two members commented about seeing fresh rock chips in their paint. this is completely unacceptable. Most importantly however is how our group found the trail system in their registration area at the middle fork. First they are the rudest group of trail users i have ever seen, parking to block trails and failing to let a faster group by when they are perfectly capable of moving to let us over, and unsafe riding practices (watched one man dump a fourwheeler with his family on it!).At every turn i encountered rudeness and carelessness with this group. What really bothers me the most is the three stuffed full bags of trash that some members from our group picked up at the middle fork registration area, including a healthy amount of beer cans, all amongst the smell of human feces. Groups that treat trail systems like this are the reason for shutdowns and litigation imposing limits and i would hate to see limits or more fees imposed on one of the finest trail systems in the southeast. I hope you will take some of my comments in to consideration, i may not see eye to eye with the woodsbuggy groups choice of vehicle off road but every group should agree on how to treat the trails and their peers in the community. I appreciate your time.



Doug Silvera

 

[Cottontail]

I'm not going to stir the pot, and I am not going to mention .

I was simply going to make a post regarding our experience with the buggy folks in attendance at the campground. I'll remind them that it doesn't matter if you drive a buggy, a Jeep, a four wheeler, or a side by side, that we all do outdoor ORV recreation as a hobby and that we need to work together across the "borders" to allow everyone to enjoy their sport as well as portray off-road enthusiasts as respectful, concious sportsmen. It is poor sportsmanship and a disregard for the ORV areas and the other people enjoying them that leads to the closure of trails.

If the consensus is that I shouldn't post. I will not. And yes, Ed, I know that has some "bad apples" and have to assume the rail buggy people do as well.

I simply wanted to give them some food for thought.

EDIT: Doug posted his the same time I did, and said most of what I wanted the buggy guys to hear.

 

[FlexdXJ]

Well put Doug! I'm sure not all the people there were like that but that was uncalled for!

 

[shortxjdoug]

Well put Doug! I'm sure not all the people there were like that but that was uncalled for!

like i said, if we want to maybe make a difference i think everyone should write their own well worded complaint, at this point its one of the few things we can do that wont be viewed as stirring the pot

 

[PacificEd]

I'm not going to stir the pot, and I am not going to mention .

I was simply going to make a post regarding our experience with the buggy folks in attendance at the campground. I'll remind them that it doesn't matter if you drive a buggy, a Jeep, a four wheeler, or a side by side, that we all do outdoor ORV recreation as a hobby and that we need to work together across the "borders" to allow everyone to enjoy their sport as well as portray off-road enthusiasts as respectful, concious sportsmen. It is poor sportsmanship and a disregard for the ORV areas and the other people enjoying them that leads to the closure of trails.

If the consensus is that I shouldn't post. I will not. And yes, Ed, I know that has some "bad apples" and have to assume the rail buggy people do as well.

I simply wanted to give them some food for thought.

EDIT: Doug posted his the same time I did, and said most of what I wanted the buggy guys to hear.

Dirk, you can post anything you want to. I'm not trying to sensor you at all. I think the second paragraph says what we need to them on their site. It is hard for them to defend their actions if their own club doesn't condone the activity we saw. As a whole, we should all be working together to improve OHV areas and that includes pointing out those who treat it poorly.

 

[ChiXJeff]

Doug, I'm not trying to be offensive... but you do need a little wordsmithing on what you're proposing to send out. A single long paragraph is difficult to read, it does need some breaks in it.

 

[shortxjdoug]

Doug, I'm not trying to be offensive... but you do need a little wordsmithing on what you're proposing to send out. A single long paragraph is difficult to read, it does need some breaks in it.

its all good, a lot of it came together when i copied it from my email

 

[Cottontail]

Dirk, you can post anything you want to. I'm not trying to sensor you at all.

I understand that Ed, but my allegiance is to . I'm not willing to put in a compromising postion. If people felt that posting on their forum was going to do so, I would not make the post.

That said, here is the text of the letter I sent to Stephen this afternoon. Thanks Doug, for getting his address published for us to use.

Good afternoon Stephen-

I wanted to write you a note about the experience I had in Harlan Co. last weekend as part of the Cherokee Crawl. The trail system is awesome. This is hands down some of the best wheeling I have ever had the opportunity to participate in. The trails are well mapped and easy to follow.

However, the experience I had in the campground was something else completely. The buggy guys that were in camp made for a less than inviting and enjoyable weekend.

Take, for example:
ü On Friday night 2 buggy drivers arrived at camp at 2:45 am in their diesel trucks. The diesel was enough to wake up the campground, but then they proceeded to off load a buggy and spend the next hour talking, laughing and carrying on.
ü On Saturday night, while the potluck and raffle was being held, they were loading their buggies right next to the dinner tent, rather than doing it in another part of the campground.
ü On Saturday, the day of the hill climb, they all drove to middle playground and parked willy-nilly in the clearing, blocking access to all of the trails that shoot out of the playground
ü Each of the nights that I camped (3 of them) there were buggies driving around and reving their engines at 2:00-2:30 am, well past quiet hours.
ü On Saturday afternoon our club carried out 3 full sacks of garbage, that included lots of beer cans, from Trail 20 which I understand was where a lot of the spectators sat to watch the climb
ü There are instances where a convoy of buggies would not move out of the way of our faster moving Jeep convoy on the trails
ü To access the trails on Saturday, there were buggies trying to get up the switchbacks that couldn’t. We sat on the access road for more than 25 minutes waiting on buggies to try to conquer that hill. And while we waited, we had to listen to music played at volume level 10 coming from the buggies that were waiting.
ü I witnessed several buggies doing burnouts in the campsite, peppering some of our Jeeps, trailers, and tents with rock
ü The bathhouse was trashed on Saturday afternoon after the buggy people used the showers. I know it to be the buggy people because they all parked their rigs outside the bathhouse as they showered.

As I speak to more of our members, other issues get mentioned, but I am certain that this gives you a little idea on what we experienced.

Stephen, your campsite is wonderful in it’s access to town, access to the trails, and the bathroom/shower facilities. While our BOD hasn’t acted on anything yet, I can state with certainty that most, if not all, the attendees at this years event are encouraging them to find a different campsite headquarters next year. Should the BOD decide to return to your camp, the lack of policing your campground and keeping the guests in compliance with the etiquette, quiet hours, and general courteousness to their fellow guests has me considering finding other accommodations for next year’s Cherokee Crawl.

I hope that my feed back gives you pause on handling late night issues. I also hope that you will consider passing along all the negative comments that you are hearing about the buggy people to their event coordinators. I’d like to believe that it was just a few bad apples that caused us this displeasure, but they need to realize that a handful of people like that can soil the reputation of the entire sport. Frankly Stephen, the buggy guys, the Jeep guys, the quad guys, the RZR guys, and the campground staff should be working in compliment of each other. We know that the ORV community is blamed for a lot of things and the actions of few have caused widespread trail closures for the use of many. But unfortunately, again last weekend, the actions of few are having a negative consequence on many….especially a monetary one for you, if decides not to return to your facility.

Thank you for your time.

 

[UNCC_99XJ]

Here's my e-mail to Stephen:

Stephen,

I wanted to take a moment and write to you to voice my concerns about my experiences at Black Mountain this weekend. I am a part of the group that was having an annual event this weekend and I, along with the others in our group, were very disgusted at many of the things the woodbuggy's group did during their event. During the overnight hours they completely ignored the quiet time rules (and sign that is very clearly posted) by constantly revving their engines, driving around the camp sites, and slinging rocks onto our member's trucks, trailers, and Jeeps. During the day they showed no respect for the trails at all by leaving their trash (chip bags, beer cans, soda cans..etc) all over the trails. Our group takes a lot of pride in leaving the trails we use in the same, if not better shape than we found them in. Three bags of nothing but trash that we picked up from another careless group sharing the trails is ridiculous to say the least. To top things off they showed no respect at all for others on the trail. What I mean by this is, they were extremely rude when approaching a trail we were on, or when we approached a trail they were on. It is common sense and common courtesy to move over to the side of a trail (if it can be safely done) to allow a faster group to pass. There were several occasions where they could have very easily moved to the side to allow us to pass, but chose not to do so, and then began to have an attitude with us when we kindly asked them if they could let us by.

Personally, this was my first trip to the Harlan County Camp Ground and Black Mountain. I have always heard that it has some of the best trails to offer on the East Coast, and I can see why after this weekend. However the blatant disrespect, ignoring of clearly posted quiet hours, and general rudeness by other groups did subtract a bit from what would have otherwise been a flawless first time experience for myself, and for others in our group. As I mentioned before our group is very passionate about taking care of the trails that we use so that we can continue to share a hobby that we all enjoy. I hope my comments and concerns can be of some help to you, and if you have any questions for me please do not hesitate to contact me.

Thank you for your time,

-Tim Nolan

 

[Cottontail]

UPDATE: I already received an answer to my e-mail from Stephen. Here is the text of his e-mail response in it's entirety...

Dirk,

I heard very little feed back (during the weekend) other than maybe one to two people commenting that a railbuggy woke them up on Saturday night. These things need to be addressed during the weekend while everyone is here so that I or my brother can take care of it while it's going on. When you guys have trouble on the campground let us know right then and there, most of this we heard as everyone was leaving. We definitely prefer Jeeps over folks that act like animals. You can be assured that Woodsbuggy Club will not be allowed here anymore.

As far as once they left the campground property that is in the hands of the park board. As I heard there was a bit of conflict between two park board members and their group during their event as they knew they were supposed to have insurance and get permission before hosting an event with a registration fee. They were even dispersed by the park ranger and told to leave the middlefork area for having an 'illegal' event. I don't believe the park will allow them to have another event here regardless.

I will forward this email to the Park board also, I have some regular railbuggy folks that's been coming here for years - but none are part of this group nor act this way.

In six years of running this campground this is the first time I've been emailed with complaints over a group - they knew the rules and they will not be allowed back - whether a few caused the problems or not.


Stephen Foster, Owner

Harlan County Campground - Putney Trailhead
8331 Hwy 119 N
Putney, Kentucky 40865