THe NAC Lots-O-BFG KO2 Thread

[MoparManiac]

Re: THe NAC Lots-O-Post Thread

I'm starting to think Mark has never ACTUALLY had sex before.

 

[vetteboy]

Re: THe NAC Lots-O-Post Thread

1. Where should I mount my gauges when I built my dash/console. I've seen some guys mount them in the middle, others mount them like the factory directly in front of them. I'm leaning towards the middle.

If you're going to have them out of your line of sight, at least arrange them so you can get the most information in the quickest amount of time. Oriented so all needles pointing up is 'normal', etc. Nothing sucks more than seeing something might be wrong, then having to look back again to figure out what it is. Especially looking over and down.

I'm gonna try and keep mine in line-of-sight, at least the critical ones. In my case I'll probably want water temp, oil temp, and oil pressure immediately at hand, with voltage, tach, speed, etc in a secondary location. Probably idiot lights as backup for the critical ones if I can do it easily.

(yes, oil pressure *and* temperature; that's one of the more sensitive issues with the motor I'll be running. It'll likely need an oil cooler as well.)

2. I spoke with a vendor at Carlisle last year about clutchs/pp/flywheels about my setup (440, 11/12" flywheel, 400-500 HP). He suggested some kind of mix match of crap. I'm thinking about just getting a kevlar clutch and calling it good. My father and his friends always just went to parts stores and got stock replacement clutchs.

I liked the Kevlar one in my XJ; it never slipped at all with the stroker and had a really nice engagement. Having a grabby badass clutch sucks for slow wheeling; I'd probably be willing to sacrifice some holding capacity or disc life for something with a less extreme takeup.

3. How well do you think an NP435 will hold up to 4-500 HP. I've read guys doing truck pulls with them and not having problems.

I think the weak point tends to be the tailhousing adapter and the output shaft, IIRC.

What happened to the 4500?

4. Trying to think of how to avoid lowering my crossmember/redoing my links. Probably just going to have to redo it all anyway.

Cool story brah.

5. Write out a simple process for how to bend tube, especially in multiple planes. I can handle simple bends just fine I'm sure.

The biggest thing is just finding a way to mark it that makes sense to you. Second biggest thing is knowing which end of the tube to start from and/or what order you wanna do your bends in.

Start here:

http://pirate4x4.com/tech/bendin_tube/

For multiple planes, I've never had a situation where I've been able to measure the rotation angle beforehand. Like everything else you've seen me do with tube fab, I don't have a fancy scientific method for it. I just sight down the length of the tube with my eyeball and make a line parallel with the tube, so that when I load the tube in the bender, I want that line on top. This usually involves holding a scrap piece of tube or a ruler or something to represent the next plane, and then contorting yourself around the existing piece of tube mocked up on the vehicle until you find a way to mark it that makes sense. Sometimes it's easier to mark it 90* off and then transfer the mark before you put it in the bender, depends on the layout.

That's a tough visual to describe, did that make sense?

I also have some little scrap pieces of tube that I've cut into quarter-rounds and half-rounds that are useful for transferring marks 90* and 180* around.

Wait til you have to mark notches, that's even more fun.

Just keep a pile of 1.5" OD DOM scraps handy so you can cut/sleeve/rotate when you XXXX up a bend.

6. How does 2" downpipes to a 3" exhaust sound for 4-500 HP?

Single 3"?

Go zoomies or go home.

Probably fine though.

7. Any ideas on a fan setup? I might just try a taurus fan and build a shroud for it.

Probably not going to be enough. One taurus fan on high isn't enough to cool the Cummins in my buddy's Bronco; it'll overheat when we're towing during the summer.

How big is your radiator and where are you planning on putting it?

 

[mini=man]

Re: THe NAC Lots-O-Post Thread

Sex is ickey.

 

[vetteboy]

Re: THe NAC Lots-O-Post Thread

I'd keep the tach/speedo in relatively stock locations. The rest of the gauges can go wherever.

This is exactly the opposite of what I recommended. :laugh:

 

[vetteboy]

Re: THe NAC Lots-O-Post Thread

I'd keep the tach/speedo in relatively stock locations. The rest of the gauges can go wherever.

And honestly those are about the two least important ones to have. Knowing your speed is good for bragging rights but the actual number doesn't mean anything to me during a race; it's basically 'as fast as I can be going' limited by terrain, engine, etc.

RPM's, same deal. I want them as low as possible and as high as necessary, capped off by a rev limiter. You have to be comfortable with the idea of running your motor pretty wound-out for long periods of time. If I can upshift and cruise I will, if I gotta downshift to stop bogging the motor, I'll do that too...but that's not something a needle on a gauge is gonna give me any useful information about. The truck itself will tell you all you need to know.

 

[kastein]

Re: THe NAC Lots-O-Post Thread

I'd put showstoppers in view and useful but noncritical info somewhere else.

Water, oil, trans oil (if using an auto), tach, air pressure on the dash. Maybe voltage too.

 

[MoparManiac]

Re: THe NAC Lots-O-Post Thread

If you're going to have them out of your line of sight, at least arrange them so you can get the most information in the quickest amount of time. Oriented so all needles pointing up is 'normal', etc. Nothing sucks more than seeing something might be wrong, then having to look back again to figure out what it is. Especially looking over and down.

I'm gonna try and keep mine in line-of-sight, at least the critical ones. In my case I'll probably want water temp, oil temp, and oil pressure immediately at hand, with voltage, tach, speed, etc in a secondary location. Probably idiot lights as backup for the critical ones if I can do it easily.

(yes, oil pressure *and* temperature; that's one of the more sensitive issues with the motor I'll be running. It'll likely need an oil cooler as well.)

My father/uncle's advice was always just "floor it, when it stops making power, shift" so tach being in LOS probably isn't necessary.

I saw some guy do that, with all the "normal" operating conditions pointed up. I could do that, would look goofy but definitely functional.

Critical to me is just oil pressure/water temp. 440s don't really have oiling issues, but cooling is always a tough one.

I liked the Kevlar one in my XJ; it never slipped at all with the stroker and had a really nice engagement. Having a grabby badass clutch sucks for slow wheeling; I'd probably be willing to sacrifice some holding capacity or disc life for something with a less extreme takeup.

Yeah I bought a kevlar one for my CTD and it's a little firmer than my stock Luk one, but not harsh at all.

I'll probably go that route. Just need to figure out if the LW bellhousing accepts a 12" flywheel.

I think the weak point tends to be the tailhousing adapter and the output shaft, IIRC.

What happened to the 4500?

Which version? I'm using a 31-spline output shaft, and if I do the short shaft kit there's no factory adapter housing.

Guy never got back to me. I can make a 435 happen cheaper than a 4500. I still haven't purchased anything yet, so nothing is set in stone.

Put it this way, convince me that a 4500 is better than a 435 and I'd do it regardless of cash.

Cool story brah.

Yup

The biggest thing is just finding a way to mark it that makes sense to you. Second biggest thing is knowing which end of the tube to start from and/or what order you wanna do your bends in.

Start here:

http://pirate4x4.com/tech/bendin_tube/

For multiple planes, I've never had a situation where I've been able to measure the rotation angle beforehand. Like everything else you've seen me do with tube fab, I don't have a fancy scientific method for it. I just sight down the length of the tube with my eyeball and make a line parallel with the tube, so that when I load the tube in the bender, I want that line on top. This usually involves holding a scrap piece of tube or a ruler or something to represent the next plane, and then contorting yourself around the existing piece of tube mocked up on the vehicle until you find a way to mark it that makes sense. Sometimes it's easier to mark it 90* off and then transfer the mark before you put it in the bender, depends on the layout.

That's a tough visual to describe, did that make sense?

I also have some little scrap pieces of tube that I've cut into quarter-rounds and half-rounds that are useful for transferring marks 90* and 180* around.

Wait til you have to mark notches, that's even more fun.

Just keep a pile of 1.5" OD DOM scraps handy so you can cut/sleeve/rotate when you XXXX up a bend.

That all made sense surprisingly, and the part about multi-plane bends was pretty much how I envisioned having to do it :laugh:

I have a 6 ft length of 1.5" OD DOM leftover so NBD there.

Single 3"?

Go zoomies or go home.

Probably fine though.

Zoomies would be awesome...

Probably not going to be enough. One taurus fan on high isn't enough to cool the Cummins in my buddy's Bronco; it'll overheat when we're towing during the summer.

How big is your radiator and where are you planning on putting it?

Whatever my father has leftover in the garage, and I'll get it hot tanked/pressure tested.

Gonna mount it at an angle behind the rear window above the fuel cell. That way with no windows it should get decent airflow.

Hmm...any suggestions on fans? I would think the extra coolant volume would help, no?

 

[themangeraaad]

Re: THe NAC Lots-O-Post Thread

This is exactly the opposite of what I recommended. :laugh:

yeah but you have a reason for your recommendations, I gave my recommendation purely based on personal (aesthetic) preferences.

While racing it is probably less important to keep the tach and the speedo in line of sight, but I just prefer the look of having them in front of the driver. Granted I would keep everything in line of sight in a stock dash location if possible but that's irrelevant... You gave reasons and your reasons make perfect sense.

And I like the recommendation to make all gauges point up when they are in their normal operating range for quick reference. I never really gave it much thought but my altima had gauges that pointed right or left and something about it always bugged me. The Mustang & the Jeep have all gauges point up when and I like it a lot more. I think that would have unconsciously made the "all point up" decision even w/o your logical reasoning behind it. :laugh3:

Oh and I also find it amusing that the (4 cylinder) altima had a speedo that went up to 160mph (and was limited to 112mph) and then i got the mustang and the speedo only goes to 140 (and it was limited to 140 or 145mph until I got the tuner). I absolutely HATE it when my vehicles 50mph of useless space on the speedo.

 

[RCman]

Re: THe NAC Lots-O-Post Thread

(yes, oil pressure *and* temperature; that's one of the more sensitive issues with the motor I'll be running. It'll likely need an oil cooler as well.)

The biggest thing is just finding a way to mark it that makes sense to you. Second biggest thing is knowing which end of the tube to start from and/or what order you wanna do your bends in.

For multiple planes, I've never had a situation where I've been able to measure the rotation angle beforehand. Like everything else you've seen me do with tube fab, I don't have a fancy scientific method for it. I just sight down the length of the tube with my eyeball and make a line parallel with the tube, so that when I load the tube in the bender, I want that line on top. This usually involves holding a scrap piece of tube or a ruler or something to represent the next plane, and then contorting yourself around the existing piece of tube mocked up on the vehicle until you find a way to mark it that makes sense. Sometimes it's easier to mark it 90* off and then transfer the mark before you put it in the bender, depends on the layout.

I told him that too and he called me dumb. I said, Oil temp & pressure, Tach, Water Temp, fuel pressure (somewhere, doesn't have to be on dash), and volt meter.

Exactly, and take good notes.

I think you and I bend tube the same way other than I also mark out every start and end of the bend with a little bit of math. It helps me replicate it on the other side.

 

[MoparManiac]

Re: THe NAC Lots-O-Post Thread

I told him that too and he called me dumb. I said, Oil temp & pressure, Tach, Water Temp, fuel pressure (somewhere, doesn't have to be on dash), and volt meter.

Exactly, and take good notes.

I think you and I bend tube the same way other than I also mark out every start and end of the bend with a little bit of math. It helps me replicate it on the other side.

:laugh: I called you dumb for what? The only gauges I don't have that you listed are oil temp and fuel pressure. Fuel pressure the way you have it setup is good enough, but oil temperature doesn't really concern me.

The big benefit to a 440? If I blow one up, throw another one in.

 

[kastein]

Re: THe NAC Lots-O-Post Thread

:laugh: I called you dumb for what? The only gauges I don't have that you listed are oil temp and fuel pressure. Fuel pressure the way you have it setup is good enough, but oil temperature doesn't really concern me.

The big benefit to a 4.0? If I blow one up, throw another one in.

Just sayin' :moon:

 

[themangeraaad]

Re: THe NAC Lots-O-Post Thread

And honestly those are about the two least important ones to have. Knowing your speed is good for bragging rights but the actual number doesn't mean anything to me during a race; it's basically 'as fast as I can be going' limited by terrain, engine, etc.

RPM's, same deal. I want them as low as possible and as high as necessary, capped off by a rev limiter. You have to be comfortable with the idea of running your motor pretty wound-out for long periods of time. If I can upshift and cruise I will, if I gotta downshift to stop bogging the motor, I'll do that too...but that's not something a needle on a gauge is gonna give me any useful information about. The truck itself will tell you all you need to know.

Beat me to it, I was typing up a reply when you posted this. I already agreed that in a race application speed/tach are likely much less important than other stuff :thumbup:

 

[MoparManiac]

Re: THe NAC Lots-O-Post Thread

Just sayin' :moon:

There are more 440s at my house then 4.0s

 

[vetteboy]

Re: THe NAC Lots-O-Post Thread

My father/uncle's advice was always just "floor it, when it stops making power, shift" so tach being in LOS probably isn't necessary.

See my previous reply re: tach.

It's really kind of useless, the more that I think about it.

Which version? I'm using a 31-spline output shaft, and if I do the short shaft kit there's no factory adapter housing.

Ford I think?

My buddy had one behind a 350 (yes, ford trans behind chevy motor) and those were the two things he broke.

Put it this way, convince me that a 4500 is better than a 435 and I'd do it regardless of cash.

Every time you have to stop what you're doing because your trans is being stubborn about going into gear because it's not synchronized, you'll think, "I shoulda done a 4500".

Hmm...any suggestions on fans? I would think the extra coolant volume would help, no?

The radiator and intercooler in the Bronco are transplanted from the same '94 Dodge that the motor came from. You've replaced the radiator in your truck (tee hee ), it's probably the same size...you think you're gonna have more volume than that? And though his Cummins is pretty worked (BigHead wastegate, full banks turbo kit, 5" straightpipe, fuel plate, etc) it's probably still not as much horsepower as you're looking to make.

We fixed it by running dual Taurus fans (the shroud area was big enough to accomodate this) and we put a two stage electronic relay control so it only runs the second one if the motor temp gets beyond normal.

 

[themangeraaad]

Re: THe NAC Lots-O-Post Thread

There are more 440s at my house then 4.0s

I wish I lived in a house where I had this 'problem'

 

[MoparManiac]

Re: THe NAC Lots-O-Post Thread

See my previous reply re: tach.

It's really kind of useless, the more that I think about it.

But it looks badass.

Ford I think?

My buddy had one behind a 350 (yes, ford trans behind chevy motor) and those were the two things he broke.

31-spline is Ford 4WD. 2WD is 27-spline.

Every time you have to stop what you're doing because your trans is being stubborn about going into gear because it's not synchronized, you'll think, "I shoulda done a 4500".

Meh, it's only 1st/reverse that isn't synchronized. Simple double clutch fixes that.

But yeah NV4500 would solve that. Not sure if it's enough to make me want to do it.

The radiator and intercooler in the Bronco are transplanted from the same '94 Dodge that the motor came from. You've replaced the radiator in your truck (tee hee ), it's probably the same size...you think you're gonna have more volume than that? And though his Cummins is pretty worked (BigHead wastegate, full banks turbo kit, 5" straightpipe, fuel plate, etc) it's probably still not as much horsepower as you're looking to make.

We fixed it by running dual Taurus fans (the shroud area was big enough to accomodate this) and we put a two stage electronic relay control so it only runs the second one if the motor temp gets beyond normal.

At this rate, every May/June my truck gets a new radiator.

Probably about the same volume as that. But there are plenty of chargers/challengers out there running more horsepower on stock size radiators. So not sure how that works :dunno:

 

[MoparManiac]

Re: THe NAC Lots-O-Post Thread

I wish I lived in a house where I had this 'problem'

I said it was a benefit.

 

[ktm racer 419]

Re: THe NAC Lots-O-Post Thread

only reason i have an obnoxious tach on my dash is because its badass and so noobs think i have a fast truck

 

[mini=man]

Re: THe NAC Lots-O-Post Thread

If any of you butt stuffers are looking to move, I think the house across the street from me is getting foreclosed. I can keep you updated when I find shit out if you'd like.

 

[Begster]

Re: THe NAC Lots-O-Post Thread

If any of you butt stuffers are looking to move, I think the house across the street from me is getting foreclosed. I can keep you updated when I find shit out if you'd like.

Deal breaker right there.