retubing an axle

[Vanimal]

so i got a front hp d44 for cheap, but unfortunately it's the late 70's version with the cast spring perches with the radius arm setup. So i'm pretty much stuck with retubing it, or sleeving it.
i can get the old tubes out fairly easily, i can cut them off and bore them out on the mill, worse case scenario. but i'm wondering about putting them back on.... i assume it's a press fit, and then rosette welded? how much of a press fit? i assume it's pretty tight. i'm not sure exactly how i can press it in here since my press isnt high enough. i was thinking of maybe heating the housing and using a long large diameter threaded rod and nuts through the center to pull it together. anyone ever try this?
i also have a chevy low pinion pass drop d44 that i was thinking of cutting the tubes off at the pumpkin and pressing into the ford center section, but using the passenger tube on the driver's side, and the driver's side on the passenger side. it appears that the chevy inner c's are symetrical, so i dont see an issue with this, but am i missing something? then i would just use the chevy flat top knuckles and whatnot. i'll have to do some reading to see if i can use the ford hubs and all that crap on the chevy knuckles. i thought i remember reading i could. then i guess i'd just use some waggy inner shafts until i had the coin for alloys.

any tips on removing and installing the tubes would be appreciated, as well as parts interchangability.

 

[VAhasnoWAVES]

this seams like a LOT of work... are you wanting to keep it full width? id run extended ford radius arms before doing all that jazz. if i remember correctly, youve expressed problems with finding a HP drivers drop axle.

as for ford hubs on chevy knuckles, you can use the chevy large bearing spindles on the chevy knuckles for 8 lug. or you can use the chevy small bearing spindles for chevy 6 lug. the small bearing spindle is also the one you will need for running ford hubs/rotors for 5 on 5.5, and you use the chevy calipers and mounts. spindle determines stub shaft.

 

[Vanimal]

this seams like a LOT of work... are you wanting to keep it full width? id run extended ford radius arms before doing all that jazz. if i remember correctly, youve expressed problems with finding a HP drivers drop axle.

as for ford hubs on chevy knuckles, you can use the chevy large bearing spindles on the chevy knuckles for 8 lug. or you can use the chevy small bearing spindles for chevy 6 lug. the small bearing spindle is also the one you will need for running ford hubs/rotors for 5 on 5.5, and you use the chevy calipers and mounts. spindle determines stub shaft.

im not running full width.
it doesnt seem like that much work to me, unless i'm missing something. regardless, i need to cut it down, so moving the c's doesnt seem like that much less work than changing the tubes. is the hard part getting the old tubes out, or putting the new ones in? if it's taking them out, i can do that pretty easily in my shop. it's putting them in that i'm concerned about. welding isnt an issue, it's just that i am concerned about the amount of inteference for the press fit into the center section, and if i'll actually be able to do it myself without a huge press.

i have the chevy small bearing spindles already, so all i really need is some callipers.

 

[kastein]

If you are thinking of using temp differential (heating the diff, cooling the tubes) and at the same time talking about using threaded rod and nuts to pull it together, you need to remember that when you get those tubes started into the housing, you need to be FAST about finishing the job, you can't fool around with threaded rod and nuts, it will stick way way before it is together most likely.

Get the diff really, really hot. Get the tubes really, really cold (like, dry ice or liquid nitrogen cold.) The more temp difference you achieve, the more time you will have to get the parts fully inserted before thermal conduction catches up with you and they stick.

 

[souske]

Is it possible to just cut the cast off and sleeve it? Or is it a section like a disco 30?

 

[kastein]

it's a section... the tube ends up way too short if you do that.

 

[souske]

Add new tube to length, sleeve and truss. Then you can just add the C's to the new tube.

 

[Vanimal]

Add new tube to length, sleeve and truss. Then you can just add the C's to the new tube.

i thought about sleeving it, but these tubes are thinner as it is, and it just seems ghetto. i think i'd rather spend the extra work to retube it. i already have tubes with c's on them, i just have to cut them off at the pumpkin on the full width chevy axle, then install them and it's done.

kastein, i figured i'd turn caps that locate on the id of the axle tube so the threaded rod stays centered, then use the impact gun to drive it on. should be fairly fast, but maybe i'll get some help. i know timing the c's to eachother and the pinion is going to be a PITA, i may need to make a quick jig.

 

[MoparManiac]

Sleeving/trussing is far from ghetto.

Much better option than trying to retube.

Eff that.

 

[Vanimal]

Sleeving/trussing is far from ghetto.

Much better option than trying to retube.

Eff that.

so what would i do, cut the tubes off the ford axle just before the casted section, then cut the chevy tubes to fit lengthwise, and fit on a ?" thick sleeve and rosette weld it to the inner tubes, then maybe weld the sleeve to the c and center section? the sleeve would have to be somewhat thick so it doesnt want to bend where the tubes meet, correct? just doesnt seem better than retubing it to me. unless the sleeve is 1/2" wall or whatever the typical tube's thickness is, it just seems like it would be weaker.
also, i believe this ford axle has fairly thin tubes.

 

[MoparManiac]

First figure out the wall thickness of what you currently have.

Then figure out what size sleeve you need (OD and I'd prob go 1/2" wall).

Would be nice to have the same dimensions on the outer tube that you're joining. Not sure what the chevys used.

Set caster and burn it home. Truss it.

Blow it up and wish you had started with an F-150/250 HP44.

 

[Vanimal]

First figure out the wall thickness of what you currently have.

Then figure out what size sleeve you need (OD and I'd prob go 1/2" wall).

Would be nice to have the same dimensions on the outer tube that you're joining. Not sure what the chevys used.

Set caster and burn it home. Truss it.

Blow it up and wish you had started with an F-150/250 HP44.

this is a hp44, i just assumed if i swapped the tubes, it wouldnt be any different than one from an f250 or 150 hp44.

that just seems like an awfull lot to just avoid swapping the tubes, which doesnt seem like it would be all that bad. perhaps i'll practice on that lp44 i have kicking around before i butcher the ford hp44.
has anyone in here actually swapped tubes, or are they just basing it on what other people say? just curious.

 

[Goatman]

It is so inexpensive for Currie or another axle builder to retube your center section it isn't even worth trying to do it yourself. We just paid $300 to retube a Solid HP44, and that price included the labor, the new DOM tube, and welding on the C's.

 

[Vanimal]

It is so inexpensive for Currie or another axle builder to retube your center section it isn't even worth trying to do it yourself. We just paid $300 to retube a Solid HP44, and that price included the labor, the new DOM tube, and welding on the C's.

thats not too bad, especially since the c's would be lined up properly. and i'd still be under 600 for the entire axle, including gears, brakes, bearings and elocker.
however, i've never paid for labor in my life, so we'll see lol

 

[kastein]

Or sell your axle to someone who wants to run radius arms, let them screw around with it, and then buy the one you should have gotten, which is what Colin suggested - specifically a late 70s f150/f250 axle rather than the undesireable radius arm setup.

 

[Vanimal]

Or sell your axle to someone who wants to run radius arms, let them screw around with it, and then buy the one you should have gotten, which is what Colin suggested - specifically a late 70s f150/f250 axle rather than the undesireable radius arm setup.

i have been looking since december for that axle. easier said than done. i havent even seen one, nevermind an overpriced one, and i refresh CL probably 20+ times a day. even these crappy ones still typically sell for a few hundred. i got this one for 80 with newer steering, hubs, brakes, 4.56's, etc. even if i spent 300 for it to be retubed at currie (which is local to me), it was still likely far cheaper than the axle you mentioned, and then i'd still have to cut it down. so how exactly is it a bad axle to start with? is the center section worse off than the f150/250's? if not, it looks like i can have a professionally shortened and retubed hp44 with the exact gearing i needed (4.56), flat top knuckles with high steer, upgraded warn hubs, and all the brakes and wheel bearings for under $400, which is about what i would spend at the pick your part junk yard IF i was lucky enough to find one there, which likely wont happen because they know what they're worth around here.
There are A LOT of wheelers here in Southern California. This is not MA, or NH (i should know, i grew up out that way, and that's where i started weeling). The harder to get stuff is like a purple unicorn around here. It's not like back east where every other yard has an old rusty plow truck just waiting to get scrapped out. There are far fewer 4x4 vehicles here, other than the toys.

So the questions that i asked that havent been answered yet.... is there any difference between my 77.5-79 fs bronco hp44 and the f150/250 hp44 mentioned by others, once i swap the tubes, c's, and knuckles?


i also just called a buddy with a fab shop who has done quite a few retubing jobs apparently.
he says i shouldnt have much of an issue doing it myself. the biggest issue is aligning the c's, which i can figure out. if he can do them in his shop, i can definitely do them in mine.

 

[MoparManiac]

The F250s have more ribbing on the centersection, but that's about it.

I wouldn't worry about using your center section.

No idea on the interference.

For $300, I'd let Currie handle it all after you figure out what you need for a pinion angle.

 

[Vanimal]

The F250s have more ribbing on the centersection, but that's about it.

I wouldn't worry about using your center section.

Thanks!

For $300, I'd let Currie handle it all after you figure out what you need for a pinion angle.

the thing is i have never paid for labor, except for getting tires mounted and balanced. not on my house, and not on my cars. i would rather struggle and learn how to do something, even if it's the hard way, and be able to look at it and know that i did it myself. it's not so much the money thing. and after talking to my friend this morning who has done it, i think i will give it a shot.

 

[kastein]

I can understand that... protip though, have your roof done by someone else. Roofs suck.

 

[Vanimal]

I can understand that... protip though, have your roof done by someone else. Roofs suck.

haha i did a roof with my parents on their house once. it did suck, but their house was a 2 story contemporary with what seemed like 80 different roof levels. mine's a single story, one simple roof. i think my dad would call me a pussy if i didnt do it myself. i'm good for a while though, fortunately.