Project Geosynchronous Orbit

[MoparManiac]

Pretty sure Quadratec sells that intermediate shaft if you can't find one...but the one you've got is likely fine, even with that piece broken off.

Getting all those little intermediate rollers back in there is a grand ol' time.

Thanks for the info. Carmelo said I could steal one of his so should be a freebie. I could probably reuse this one but again, for free why the hell not.

Yeah I was thinking about that. I saw a write-up where a guy used a 1.25" wooden dowel (same size as the idler shaft) and punched it through before dropping the gearset back in so as he punched the idler shaft back in, all the rollers stayed in place. I might try that if it sucks that bad.

Any tips?

 

[vetteboy]

I have a 5-gallon bucket of military grease (I think it's labeled as 'artillery grease) that a buddy of mine got me from the local marine corps reserve motor pool. It looks like peanut butter, but stickier. I'm pretty sure they just take gobs of it and throw it at tank treads, etc.

I just liberally coat all the rollers with that shit and get them all set inside the intermediate gear. Then using 3 hands you lower the intermediate gear in while holding the thrust washers in place, and try and feed the intermediate shaft through.

The dowel (or alternatively, a big deep socket) is a better way, but due to my clocking ring being seized onto the case, it partially covers the intermediate shaft so it only goes in & out through one side. :dunce:

 

[asp]

I haven't put my 300 back together yet, but I've thought about this. I think doing it with the case on its side would work the best. Outside the case, Get all the rollers inside the idler, smear it with axle grease and put the shaft in to seat them. Take the shaft out, swiftly put the loaded idler into the case and jam the shaft in. The dowel idea you mentioned could work well too. I think it would be easiest with the dowel the same diameter as the idler shaft but the same length as the idler gear. Hope that made sense...

Edit: Damn, Chris beat me to it.

 

[MoparManiac]

Yeah that was pretty much my plan. Smear the crap out of the needle bearings with axle grease and line them up and hole it goes in easily :laugh:.

Deep socket could work too. Anthony, that's how the guy did it with the dowel being the same length as the idler gearset.

 

[vetteboy]

I haven't put my 300 back together yet, but I've thought about this. I think doing it with the case on its side would work the best. Outside the case, Get all the rollers inside the idler, smear it with axle grease and put the shaft in to seat them. Take the shaft out, swiftly put the loaded idler into the case and jam the shaft in. The dowel idea you mentioned could work well too. I think it would be easiest with the dowel the same diameter as the idler shaft but the same length as the idler gear. Hope that made sense...

I've only ever tried it horizontal, but I think with the way you're describing it, holding the top thrust washer in place would be problematic. Both thrust washers need to be in the case with the little keyed tabs in place before you put the intermediate gear in.

Might be able to stick it there with enough grease, but I've always had a tough enough time keeping them in place with the case horizontal. It helps if you get the intermediate shaft started just a little bit to hold the first one in place, then you only have to worry about the far one...

 

[MoparManiac]

Good call, that thrust washer was a PITA on the countershaft in the NP435. I slathered it with axle grease and it stayed put enough for me to get the shaft into the needle bearing

 

[kastein]

That's how I generally do needle bearings... cover everything in red EP grease and work fast.

 

[MoparManiac]

So once again, things didn't go exactly as planned.

1. I shouldn't have ordered the D20 gasket/seal kit from Novak since they don't deal with Ford D20s. Every gasket I had was for a Jeep D20, but all the seals worked. RTV Grey FTW.

2. I need to not stay up so late working on stuff. Adam and Carmelo helped me for a bit, and we didn't finish until about 12:30 a.m.. I managed to mangle a shift rail during install as well, but Carmelo had a whole rebuild kit for his Jeep D20 and they all share seals.

3. Carmelo's intermediate shaft seemed a tad on the small side and had a groove for an o-ring that didn't come with his kit so I just reused my intermediate shaft. Nice tight fit and the retaining tab has enough to grab onto.

Dana 20 all set and can be twin sticked now. Any combination can be picked now, Front (H/N/L) and Rear (H/N/L). Just gotta throw a coat of paint on it.

 

[vetteboy]

That all looks familiar.

What'd you end up doing for the rollers?

 

[MoparManiac]

That all looks familiar.

What'd you end up doing for the rollers?

Sweet Mopar box

Slathered the crap out of the the inside of the idler gearset with wheel bearing grease, put all the needle bearings/spacers in, slathered the crap out of everything again.

Slathered the thrust washers, started the shaft in to hold one of the washers in place while putting my finger through the other side to hold the other one in place and dropped the gear set in while Adam pounded on the shaft.

Worked mint and took like 10 minutes.

EDIT: This whole post sounded wicked gay with shafts being pounded and grease getting everywhere.

 

[vetteboy]

Sweet Mopar box

New-style VSS for the short 32-spline rear output.

 

[MoparManiac]

New-style VSS for the short 32-spline rear output.

I'm actually hoping I don't have any issues similar to what you went through since I won't have a speedo.

Didn't you have problems coming back down to idle after romping on it?

 

[kastein]

Surprisingly my 96 ran pretty OK with no VSS last night when I accidentally unplugged the speedo/rear O2 sensor (I think, I know the speedo was dead) harness instead of the AW-4 harness for the first half of my drive home. It idled a little funny at about 20mph if I let off the gas in 1-2 but that was it.

 

[vetteboy]

This was what I found when researching it (taken from my buildup thread):

The ECM does use the VSS sensor and throttle position to determine if the vehicle is decelerating. While in deceleration mode, it will use the idle air control motor maintain a set engine vacumn. (Per 1995 FSM, page 14-25). In deceleration mode, the ECM will reduce the injector pulse-width and deliver less fuel (1993-1995 Fuel Injection Manual, page 3).

Solves that problem, now I need to figure out how to use the new VSS on the STaK. From the same FSM, the stock speedometer at 55 MPH is getting a square-wave signal from the VSS at a rate of 122.2 Hz.

The STaK VSS (which is the same as the newer 2003+ TJ VSS) sends 3 pulses per driveshaft revolution. Figuring with my tire size and 4.56 axle ratio, at 55 MPH my driveshaft is spinning at 2250 RPM. So the VSS is sending a signal at 112.4 Hz.

Basically what that boils down to is if I splice the new VSS into the old wiring harness, without changing anything else my speedometer will read ~10% slow. I think that's close enough that I don't need to spend $80+ for a converter box.

 

[vetteboy]

Ahem.

Jeep VSS Adapter to Bronco 20 Tcase:

This makes a very clean, simple, low cost connection form your stock Jeep VSS to the Bronco 20 Tcase

Take your stock Jeep VSS. Separate the actual VSS portion from the gear holder portion of the housing. Remove the gear (it pulls out). Take a hacksaw and notch the end of this housing (where the gear came out of) .500 deep.

Build a short cable, Ford bulb & gear on one end, about 12” long. Other end is plain jacket with ¾” bare cable sticking out. A coupler is swaged to this cable stub which will accept a .104 square male speedo sensor drive. The .290 OD cable jacket is enlarged to.370 using tape or heat shrink tubing. This cable is available from North Hollywood speedometer for $29.

North Hollywood Speedometer (818)761-5136

This cable assembly fits into a .375 dia opening in the bottom of the VSS plastic housing where you notched it. The cable coupler with the coupler coupling to the VSS drives shaft inside. The plastic housing (where it was notched can be tightened down onto the cable using a hose clamp.

You *did* save the VSS plug in your harness, right? I think I see it in your harness photo at the beginning of this thread...

 

[MoparManiac]

You're the man :thumbup:

Yes I believe I did save the plug. I think I even saved the harness going all the way down to the 231 that was in the XJ I robbed the wiring out of.

 

[MoparManiac]

Let me just quote myself here.

So once again, things didn't go exactly as planned.

Started out the day by running to Advance Auto Parts to pickup the CORRECT double lip oil seal that goes in the factory adapter. Seems when I ordered the one I thought I needed from WildHorses4x4, I was incorrect.

Anyhow, I assembled all that, bolted up the D20 to the NP435 and was staring at this.

I thought to myself "Self, you could say eff it and have a t-case that hangs even lower than your NP435, or you could clock it up". I looked online really quick and couldn't find any off-the-shelf clocking rings or adapters for a Bronco D20, however I did find one post on Pirate4x4 of a dude who seemed to have done this before.

I simply removed the indexing pin, rotated the input adapter a few degrees, then used it as a template to drill new holes in the case. I tapped the new holes to the same 3/8-16 thread as the original holes, and ran Grade 8 socket (allen) head bolts from inside the case, through the threads, and out so that they protrude like studs. The case is much thinner in between the original holes, but there's still enough for quite a few threads in each new hole. Plus, doing it the way I did, the new bolts act both like a stud and a bolt, clamping the adapter to the case.

Many people are worried that the case it TOO thin, and the threads might pull out - but think about it. The circular flange on the input adapter fits tightly into the bore of the case nearly an inch deep, (just like a spindle fits into an outer knuckle on a Dana 30 or 44 front axle) and that takes all the vertical and horizontal loads on the junction. The 1/2" dia indexing pin prevents the adapter from rotating with respect to the case - so all the bolts really do is hold the adapter and case together.

So ghetto-fabbed my way through this. In hind sight, I probably shouldn't have cut off the indexing pin, but I did anyway. Hopefully I don't regret that but we'll see. Worst case is I'm out a $75 t-case, no biggy.

Here's the mockup clocking:

Excellent, flat belly back there

I found this hilarious. Shift rails are right below the stock 4WD lever hole.

Redrilled holes. I'm only able to use 5 bolts as the original indexing pin hole was in the way of the 6th. Again, SHOULD be ok but we'll find out.

Finally, finished up the frame side motor mounts by running some stitch welds and painting them up.

 

[ROBZ95Xj]

them motor mounts bring tear to my eyes, thanks for letting the blue jeep live on, you would make it proud

 

[MoparManiac]

To blue jeep

atriot:

 

[MoparManiac]

I think tomorrow I'm going to figure out a way to get the indexing pin (or a version of it) back in there.

I have an extra engine to trans dowel locating pin, so I'm going to use it. I don't think I feel comfortable having the bolts take all the torque load.