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Plan of events?

COXJ

NAXJA Member #989
I havent seen a plan of events or anything like that that so i thought maby some sugestions from people who will b out here. even if ya havent ben out here shoot some suggestions of what u believe are must wheel trails. might b a good way to get some trail lists goin.

WIll
 
I haven't seen anything from Grant in awhile...but then again my email isn't working right now and I haven't had time to fix it. I'm deducing that part of the week will be spent in Ouray (San Juans) and part of it will be spent based in Buena Vista? I'll make some comments and suggestions along those lines.

First off, the San Juan trails are predominantly mountain passes mixed with valley ascents/descents, some upwards of 13,000 ft. There is almost nothing you can't do in a stock or near stock XJ in this area. San Juan wheeling is about covering a lot of miles in a day to create a loop with some mostly moderate obstacles and a ton of world class scenery. In my opinion, the challenge is more about pucker factor when the passes turn into switchback ledge roads than it is about seriously technical fourwheeling (narrow ledge road plus extreme technical = dead). I've seen books rate Black Bear as a 10 out of 10 in difficulty. Maybe true when you are considering the requirement to do 3 point turns on the edge of thousand foot dropoffs, but you could do it in a stocker. The hardcore who just can't stand a run more about scenery need to run the 30 miles back North to Gunnison to run Die Trying and the new breed of extreme trails. I have no qualifications to comment on them.

So here is my "must do" San Juan trail list. I'll leave Gunnison to that crowd - if I was visiting Colorado I wouldn't spend all day in a half mile long pit when the San Juans were at my fingertips (finger treads???). At least not all three days, anyway.

Scenic - Alpine Loop. From Ouray you take Engineer Pass to Lake City and then Cinnamon Pass to Animas Forks, which is a mining ghost town. From there you can drop into Silverton and head back to Ouray on paved road, or you can add some more offroad passes to get back. I think Cinnamon Pass is the prettiest 4wd road in Colorado, perhaps tied with Pearl Pass. This is a long drive. It will take all day. Some of the passengers got a bit cranky when we did this for Forum Fest '99. My wife handled it just fine four months pregnant with an 8 month old in tow (yes, in hindsight it seems as insane as it was). A stocker might drag in spots, but even a small lift and decent tires will have no trouble with these trails.

Scenic - Yankee Boy Basin. Yankee Boy is a 12,000 ft. elevation basin that is a wildflower paradise in the summer. We'll miss that show in August, but it is a spectacular place with a large waterfall at the lower elevations combined with what looks almost like a crater lake at the highest point of the trail. This is only a half day trip, and it is very close to Ouray. Might be good for those aforementioned passengers who got worn out by the Alpine Loop.

Moderate - Black Bear is a must. There probably isn't another trail like it in the world. Suitable for those who don't mind crawling up to a precipice and doing 3 point+ turns to get pointed back to the trail. Drops into Telluride off of highway 550 between Ouray and Silverton.

Moderate - Imogene/Ophir. Imogene Pass is 13,114 feet, second highest in the continental US (Mosquito Pass, also in Colorado, is higher). It runs from Ouray to Telluride, and then you can take Ophir Pass back over to Silverton and then back to Ouray on Highway 550. Most of us would consider this also to be "scenic", but I'll call it moderate.

Moderate/Difficult - Poughkeepsie Gulch. I recommend this trail as the last trail in the San Juans on a 3 day schedule. It T-junctions off of Engineer Pass outside of Ouray and runs up an incredible alpine valley. Poughkeepsie has one good required obstacle set, and it is usually wet and muddy in the summer. Once side of the climb is up a fairly slick and smooth rock, the other up a rocky/muddy section. There is nothing extreme here...just a fun place for the moderate crowd to take on a more challenging obstacle. We spent a lot of time here at Forum Fest '99. A group of experienced Jeepers with dual lockers will get through pretty quickly...a more moderate group can make it a lunch spot. There is also an optional obstacle that is basically a wet four foot wall between two large trees that not many successfully scale. You can take Corkscrew from the end of Poughkeepsie back to Highway 550 and into Ouray.

Others - Some good side avenues to explore are the other basins like American and Governor. These are relatively short spur trails, but they contain some of the more intimate and spectacular scenery and are worth your time.

Bottom Line Schedule Ideas:

Day One - Alpine Loop for those who hate switchback ledge roads, Black Bear for those who love 'em
Day Two - Yankee Boy Basin for those who want a half day. Imogene/Ophir for those who want a full day.
Day Three - Poughkeepsie Gulch, entire moderate group

Day Four - transition to Buena Vista?

The central Colorado trails are more varied and more technical than the San Juans, but typically (not always!) offer a lot less pucker factor.

Moderate to Difficult - Old Chinaman's Gulch. This is one of my favorite trails. It is low elevation for a Colorado trail, never getting above 9,000 ft, with virtually no ledge roads. It is more of a desert trail, with some amazing views of the Sawatch Range at the top. The trail starts up a rock garden...rough, nothing very technical, near stockers will drag from time to time. From there it winds around through multiple obstacle sets as a loop. The cool thing about this trail is that it is as difficult as you want it to be. There are typically some very challenging lines on major obstacles, like the Elevator, right beside a difficult line beside a moderate line beside an easy line. Plenty of Colorado XJ'ers cut their teeth on this trail because of the options it affords. Some of the trail crossed private land and was closed last time I ran it (although we didn't realize this until we hit a cable gate on the other end)...we'll have to make sure that section it is open as it contains some fun stuff).

Difficult - Holy Cross. I've never run it, but I'm familiar enough with it. French's Creek is supposed to be tough, and there are some serious obstacles (optional) above the "city". When I wonder why the hell anybody would want to base anything in Buena Vista :firedevil , the answer simply has to be "Holy Cross". It's a must do Colorado trail. It's also a good idea to avoid weekends as it gets crowded.

Moderate/Difficult - Wheeler Lake. Some decent obstacles going in...great scenery...come back out the way you went in. I've never run it, but do a web search and you'll get a good idea (all of these trails can be found on the web).

Scenic - Mount Princeton/Mount Antero. Up the mountain and back down. Antero actually goes to the summit while Princeton peters out at 12,000 feet (Princeton is a fourteener). Rock collectors will love Antero, as semi-precious stones can apparently be found on the mountain flank.

Scenic - Tincup and other trails like it. See ghost towns and awesome scenery without the endless ledge roads.

You can head towards Aspen from Buena Vista to run trails like Pearl Pass, which are famous, incredibly beautiful, very high altitude, and not that tough (moderate for an experienced wheeler) unless there is still snowpack at the top. That would be a two day run, though, and not terribly logical from Buena Vista.

Hardcore - 21 Road. I'd guess 21 Road is on the list as the group heads towards the Rubicon for part two.

Bottom Line Schedule Ideas:

Day One - Old Chinamen's and a scenic trail
Day Two - Holy Cross (difficult), Wheeler Lake (moderate/difficult) and a scenic run.
Day Three - 21 Road/head home

There are some ideas/info. If this stuff is happening behind the scenes and I've missed that, I apologize. Hopefully this will get some people excited about the options!

Nay
 
Will,
so far the only plans are to run the event the week before the Rubicon trip, so our dates were co-ordinated to allow that.

Expect the first weekend and few days to be based in Ouray, then we will head over to Buena Vista mid week for the remainder of the event.

i'd like to see who wants to run which trails, we will attempt to accomodate everybody - mild to wild. Ouray lacks in any trails rated harder than "scenic" but Montrose is not that far away.

BV has a much better trail selection, but I'd like to hear those secret camping spots. The 2002 campsite was not the best I've been in.

Grant
 
Damn, Nay beat me to it, and as usual has excellent trail suggestions. I am somewhat jaded with all the scenic beautiful trails we have available, and have not run many of the "stock" trails in the last 5 years. It will be fun to take the Land Rover when we scout the trails in July.

I had not thought of 21 Rd for the guys heading west, good suggestion.
 
It's true...those trails we loved so much years ago really offer precious little in the way of serious wheeling, except that the environment is so incredible. A quick correction...I did mean to say that the extreme set should head to Montrose (30 minutes North of Ouray), not Gunnison...

Anybody coming from the flatlands who has never been in the high Rockies will absolutely love the San Juans, whether you are a hardcore wheeler or not. The trails there are unlike any others I've ever wheeled (including web wheeling). Once you done them, it is kind of silly to pull up with your beasty rig to run these trails, many of which are snow-plowed in early summer to allow passage. Still, I think the San Juans are the most beautiful part of the state and more than worth a visit for three days. I get a joy out of leading trails like that and showing people from other parts of the country how incredible Colorado really is. You can't get that on Independence.

The other factor is that in a good monsoon season running until late August can make some trails quite a bit more difficult. I think it rained just about every afternoon in '99 and there were some nasty thunderstorms at night (I wasn't camping...it was nice :D ). Poughkeepsie was quite muddy, especially for the scouting run, and provided some good entertainment in '99 (I got stuck both times :shocked: ). The one main obstacle does pull the rating above scenic. A near stocker is pretty likely to take the strap on that one...we had some dual locked rigs with MT's that took that strap that day. We ran into a huge rockslide (10 feet deep on the road) back into Ouray during one afternoon storm...there is definitely some excitement to be had. Those "scenic" trips can get pretty epic if conditions change suddenly, which they can do that time of year.

Buena Vista is kind of a hard sell for me along the lines of "how do you keep the really hardcore guys satisfied for three days?" That's why I think you choose Holy Cross and Old Chinaman and then head to 21 Road. As we know, it's typically the lower elevation trails that offer the most challenge (Montrose, Independence, 21 Road). Also, is anything open towards Salida that would be hardcore?

I think it will serve us well to ask how many people will do the whole week. In '99 a good portion of the crowd split after the San Juans portion because families have a hard time essentially spending an entire week in a truck. We did provide some day-off activity suggestions so folks could manage time wheeling with other activities as necessary. It just depends on the crowd. In '99 we relocated to the Taylor Reservoir area (due West over the Sawatch from Buena Vista) after Ouray to run the trails in that area, so this would be a similar effort.

I really hope to make it this year. We haven't been to the San Juans since Forum Fest '99...hopefully enough of the '99 crew will show up to make it a reunion.

Nay
 
I'm planning on 8-9 days there. (Both weekends) :yelclap:
The San Juans is some of the most beautiful real estate on the planet!!
I've done Black Bear, Ophir, and Imogene, but would do them again in a HEARTBEAT!
Buena Vista sounds fun, too. I'm in for the week!
Tell me where we'll be camping, and I'll get my reservations in!
I have stayed at the KOA just outside Ouray. It's not far from town and is well-maintained. HOT-TUB!! :cheers:
Just an idea...
 
Intrested in Helping

I'm some what new to NAXJA but I've been wheeling in Colorado for a few years. I attended last years Moab trip and had a great time and appreciate all the help member put in so I'm offering up to help work the Colorado gathering. Grant, you can contact me at [email protected] if there is some way I can help. I'm in Colorado Springs so I am familure with some of the BV area trails and camping.
 
Cool, watch for us to start an organizing committee in the next couple of weeks.
 
My thoughts, Holy Cross is a fun, especially above the city up near cleveland rock, Wheeler lake is a total blast especially the lower section, couple fun playgrounds, chinamans, not bad either, i personally love 21 road, and thats not just cause i live 20 minutes from there. Wouldn't mind doing a tirp down to Montrose and checking out die trying and some of the other ones in that area.


I'll be heading out for the rubicon trip so i can really take off during the week for this one, but am more than willing to help lead on the weekends if ya do 21rd, wheeler lake, holy cross, or chinmans, as i've done all of those about 10 times or so.


Wally
 
This sounds great. But I have a question. My Jeep is a '92 XJ 4x4 with I6 & Auto, pretty much stock. Will I be able to do several of these trails or will I be shut out :confused1 . And y'all are right - Colorado is a beautiful place. I use to live in Boulder. Thanks, Michel
 
Jeep said:
This sounds great. But I have a question. My Jeep is a '92 XJ 4x4 with I6 & Auto, pretty much stock. Will I be able to do several of these trails or will I be shut out :confused1 . And y'all are right - Colorado is a beautiful place. I use to live in Boulder. Thanks, Michel

Take a look at my writeup above. I think you could do most of the San Juan trails in a stocker. We had plenty of 2" budget boost XJ's the last time and no problems. There are also plenty of scenic/moderate trails around Buena Vista that are fine for a stocker...although I'd want some underbody protection.

I think you'll have more fun with a bit of lift so you can work up to some of the more moderately difficult trails, but you don't need to stay home because your XJ is basically stock.

Nay
 
Nay, your list of trails is a good start. As for Ophir, I did it in a car. The locals use it as a shortcut. I guess I forget that some people get nervous at ledge roads. Last time I ran Black Bear I did it with 3" lift and 31's and didn't ever bottom out. I could get my Exploder over it, but there is a rumor running around that it is closed due to a landslide. I'll do some checking. Imogene had a couple of bumps that came close to hitting bottom on but never the less could be done with a touch of spotting. Nothing a stock Cherokee couldn't get over.

The scenery is great. I'll have to post a picture of the fabled first switch back on Black Bear. It isn't all its cracked up to be. I think everybody just likes to try and scare the flatlanders.

I am wanting to hit some harder trails but still want to see some scenery as well. Can't wait.

Tom Houston
Loveland, Colorado
 
Thanks Wheelers for the advice on the stock XJ. If things work out I plan on installing a lift this Summer. Looking forward to Aug. and the Colorado Rocky Mountains :clap:
 
I've talked to Grant about leading a couple of the more moderate trails around Ouray. My wife and I were professional photographers and own a video production business on the side. I hope to do some trails like the Black Bear - Imogene loop and plan for some good photo opps for everybody. I might even shoot a roll or two of everybody doing the poser thing and then post them on the web for free.

My wife does not particularly like to do the 12 hour wear you out trails and I am sure there are a few more around like that. My plan is to allow some tourist time and time for a quick meal in Telluride before heading back. I've found that if I make a few allowances every once in a while for her comfort, she is a lot more willing to put up with my excesses.

We will do plenty of hard core trails, but I hope to take a bunch of out of state'ers and show them the Colorado that the tourists only see in the beer commercials.

Tom Houston
 
old_man said:
We will do plenty of hard core trails, but I hope to take a bunch of out of state'ers and show them the Colorado that the tourists only see in the beer commercials.

Tom Houston

My wife to be and I would love to go on some of those trails. We'll be on out honeymoon then, and really wont be into the 12 hour trails either. Imogene is one we are planning, so you can count us in for that,

Fergie
 
Fergie said:
My wife to be and I would love to go on some of those trails. We'll be on out honeymoon then, and really wont be into the 12 hour trails either. Imogene is one we are planning, so you can count us in for that,

Fergie

If you are looking for a nice bed and breakfast in Ouray, try the Damn Yankie. The wife and I like to stay there. It is a block or two off of main street. We really like to come back after a day of wheeling and catch some good mexican food at a cafe down town then go for a dip in the hot springs pool. Man talk about living the good life. You will sleep like a baby....ops, I forgot you will be on your honeymoon :laugh:

I normally set my reservations via www.hotels.com or use them to locate lodging and then call direct to try and get even a better deal.
 
Tom-
Are you talking about the mexican food place with all the dollar bills tacked to the cieling? They DO have some awesome food.
For a place to stay in Ouray, there's another spot called Viesbahden. It's a neat little hotel with some adjoining vapor caves in kind of a natural spa setting. They have different caves for different tempretures. It's really cool!
Fergie- It has a PRIVATE hot tub you can rent that's got a high fence around it. VERY private and VERY romantic! :shhh:
 
Some tempting pics from the San Juans...

These are all from my trip there last 4th of July weekend.

Black Bear Pass around 11,000 feet.
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Telluride as seen from the top of the switchbacks. I followed a WJ down the trail, up until this point it carried 4 people. Next time I saw him he was driving by himself. :D
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Telluride's Main Street on 4th of July. Look carefuly for the switchbacks on the wall in the distance, that is Black Bear Pass.
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Somewhere along Imogene Pass Road.
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Yankee Boy Basin
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Camping at 11,000 feet below the ghost town of Animas Forks
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I don't know if I will do this trip or the Rubicon... we'll just have to see of I can weasel 4 weeks ov vacation out of the boss this year. :D
 
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